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Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 13:17
by IKSRTFO
"According to Compubox" Newsflash: Compubox didn't exist in Robinsion's era and they don't have footage of ALL of his fights to compare it to Floyd's.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 13:18
by IKSRTFO
KBB wrote:
Quoted from the article above:
The one fighter who many consider to be the best ever, Sugar Ray Robinson,
didn't have any film of fights in his prime so he did not receive a number.
You just made my point idiot. He doesn't have a number but he, Armstrong, or Pep could have better numbers than Floyd. Compubox can only measure the full careers of those that were around since it's inception.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 14:28
by KBB
IKSRTFO wrote:You just made my point idiot. He doesn't have a number but he, Armstrong, or Pep could have better numbers than Floyd. Compubox can only measure the full careers of those that were around since it's inception.
They said they didn't have ALL not ANY of his footage, sorry it looks like you're the idiot...jackass.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 14:37
by IKSRTFO
KBB wrote:IKSRTFO wrote:You just made my point idiot. He doesn't have a number but he, Armstrong, or Pep could have better numbers than Floyd. Compubox can only measure the full careers of those that were around since it's inception.
They said they didn't have ALL not ANY of his footage, sorry it looks like you're the idiot...jackass.
You can't measure SOME of Robinson's numbers against ALL of Floyd's numbers dumbass
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 15:01
by jamesmcdonnell
Where did I say you could? Jackass. I merely pointed out that there is existing footage of him at welterweight.
Compubox shompubox - that is now how you judge a fighters worth, whether or not he would have beaten Floyd, who knows, but his record speaks for itself. To go as long as he did without defeat in an era when he had to fight sometimes twice in a month is testament to his greatness, as a welterweight, and later, past his prime, as a middleweight, speaks volumes.
If you think that the compubox numbers tell the whole story, that's your right, but It's not one I, or a host of others would agree with.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 15:03
by jamesmcdonnell
KBB wrote:
Quoted from the article above:
The one fighter who many consider to be the best ever, Sugar Ray Robinson,
didn't have any film of fights in his prime so he did not receive a number.
The article is incorrect, there is extant footage of Robinson in his welterweight prime.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 15:06
by IKSRTFO
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Where did I say you could? Jackass. I merely pointed out that there is existing footage of him at welterweight.
Compubox shompubox - that is now how you judge a fighters worth, whether or not he would have beaten Floyd, who knows, but his record speaks for itself. To go as long as he did without defeat in an era when he had to fight sometimes twice in a month is testament to his greatness, as a welterweight, and later, past his prime, as a middleweight, speaks volumes.
If you think that the compubox numbers tell the whole story, that's your right, but It's not one I, or a host of others would agree with.
Exactly proves my point that compubox isn't the only comparison and that you have to factor in who they fought and the challenges they took and Robinson has that in spades over Floyd footage or not.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 15:17
by Noxy
Well he's a prize fighter isn't he. You need that sort of mentality.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 21:23
by BAD INTENTIONS
KBB wrote:BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Both are great. Era comparisons are stupid. People always pick the athlete from the era they revere more ... so Jordan > Lebron, even though Lebron is more skilled and athletic than Jordan ever was.
Also, if we are going to say that Floyd has ATG defense, then it's contradictory to say some fighter completely destroys him. His defense is all-time great status because it supposedly is supposed to hold up against all-time greats.
I disagree with you on Jordan vs LeBron, the stats speaks for themselves:
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_ ... jordan.htm
I wasn't saying one is better than the other. Based on basketball skills, Lebron James can do more on the basketball court than Michael Jordan.
Also, stats are the worst way to compare players of different eras. Unless one athlete is so transcendent his greatness is an anomaly, all the best from any era share the title of best ever.
PS - Jordan was not one such anomaly. He was a legendary player WITH legendary brand development.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 09:54
by jamesmcdonnell
IKSRTFO wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Where did I say you could? Jackass. I merely pointed out that there is existing footage of him at welterweight.
Compubox shompubox - that is now how you judge a fighters worth, whether or not he would have beaten Floyd, who knows, but his record speaks for itself. To go as long as he did without defeat in an era when he had to fight sometimes twice in a month is testament to his greatness, as a welterweight, and later, past his prime, as a middleweight, speaks volumes.
If you think that the compubox numbers tell the whole story, that's your right, but It's not one I, or a host of others would agree with.
Exactly proves my point that compubox isn't the only comparison and that you have to factor in who they fought and the challenges they took and Robinson has that in spades over Floyd footage or not.
sorry, thought you were calling me a jackass earlier - it was someone else - which is of course absolutely fine by me.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 10:53
by hoagylt
First I am not a Floyd fan.That said Floyd does a lot of sh-t for affect.He went to the school of Ali,Professor Ali figured if you love him you buy to see him win.Conversely you also would buy a ticket to see him get his a-se kicked,Brilliant! Floyd is not the sinner everyone spouts ,nor is Manny the saint.
Any boxer who does not have a high opinion of himself should not get into the ring.Also, I am a huge fan of Sugar Ray,Greb,Dempsey and all, but May and Pac could compete against any of them barring size.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 11:02
by Rodian
floyd is a moron and so is anyone who agrees with this stupidity
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 11:32
by IKSRTFO
jamesmcdonnell wrote:IKSRTFO wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Where did I say you could? Jackass. I merely pointed out that there is existing footage of him at welterweight.
Compubox shompubox - that is now how you judge a fighters worth, whether or not he would have beaten Floyd, who knows, but his record speaks for itself. To go as long as he did without defeat in an era when he had to fight sometimes twice in a month is testament to his greatness, as a welterweight, and later, past his prime, as a middleweight, speaks volumes.
If you think that the compubox numbers tell the whole story, that's your right, but It's not one I, or a host of others would agree with.
Exactly proves my point that compubox isn't the only comparison and that you have to factor in who they fought and the challenges they took and Robinson has that in spades over Floyd footage or not.
sorry, thought you were calling me a jackass earlier - it was someone else - which is of course absolutely fine by me.
I was responding to Brut (posting as KBB)
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 15:58
by IRLangmaid25
Ricky_ wrote:
Ray schooled Joey Maxim in a World LightHeavyweight Title fight. That would be today's equivalent of Mayweather vs Kovalev or Stevenson. The comparison is insulting.
And it was impressive when you take into account SRR was giving away at least 10lbs on the night and ran Maxim ragged it for 14 rounds
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 19:58
by ClivePatrickLyons
Save all the arguement's Floyd couldn't beat Sugar Ray Leonard let alone Sugar Ray Robinson
WHY DON'T HE PICK ON THE SUGAR RAY THAT IS STILL ALIVE SO HE CAN STILL PUT HIS TWO BOB'S WORTH INTO THE DEBATE :??
NO THATS RIGHT HE CAN PICK ON DEAD MEN HE'S THE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA SIDE TO THIS ARGUEMENT
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 20:01
by Rodian
ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Save all the arguement's Floyd couldn't beat Sugar Ray Leonard let alone Sugar Ray Robinson
WHY DON'T HE PICK ON THE SUGAR RAY THAT IS STILL ALIVE SO HE CAN STILL PUT HIS TWO BOB'S WORTH INTO THE DEBATE :??
NO THATS RIGHT HE CAN PICK ON DEAD MEN HE'S THE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA SIDE TO THIS ARGUEMENT
he did beat Sugar Shane
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 07:31
by jezzamundo
Even if, taken over their primes, Mayweather had better compubox numbers than SRR (which I believe he probably would), it would mean very little. Compubox doesn't factor how hard punches are, or the quality of the opponent giving and taking them.
Robinson was 3" taller, had the same reach, faster hands (at his welterweight prime), considerably more punching power, threw more punches and had an iron chin. The only times, in his prime, when he ever had difficulty were against physically heavier, stronger men who could bully him on the inside. Floyd is an outstanding inside fighter, but doesn't have the size or strength of the likes of Lamotta or Georgie Abrams.
Don't get me wrong, they are both brilliant fighters, but Robinson has all of the physical advantages and I could never see Floyd beating him, just like I could never see Floyd beating a prime Leonard or Hearns. Mayweather is an ATG fighter, an ATG super featherweight, but he doesn't match up well with the welterweight greats.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 08:01
by man
floyd is difficult for everyone who ever boxed. nobody
just walks right through him, as some seem to suggest.
between the ATGs it is always a close call.
the one who would give floyd call kinds of trouble is
leonard, because he is on par in terms of ring smarts.
to all who think he is delusional: what would you think
about yourself if you walked in his shoes? right, just
what i thought.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 17:13
by Tuan_Jim
Wouldn't surprise me if Floyd's compubox stats are superior to Sugar Ray's. Sugar Ray was fighting the best of the best, the absolute elite, fight after fight. Difficult to score Compubox landslides against such an exalted level of fighter.
Floyd Mayweather is fighting handpicked opponents against whom he can conduct dizzying Compubox landslides. That's why no one with a semblance of cognitive function would bring up Compubox stats.
Floyd also has a trophy cabinet full of glittering belts that Sugar Ray never won. They didn't exist in Ray's day, but no doubt some people will still hold that against him.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 18:27
by SFW
BAD INTENTIONS wrote:big train express wrote:Would you be ok if pacquiao said he was better than SRR?
There seems to be a an important fact lost in all the Floyd/Manny hype ... Floyd Mayweather is a better fighter than Manny Pacquiao.
Yet the better fighter doesn't always win.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 18:39
by NateJR
Tuan_Jim wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if Floyd's compubox stats are superior to Sugar Ray's. Sugar Ray was fighting the best of the best, the absolute elite, fight after fight. Difficult to score Compubox landslides against such an exalted level of fighter.
Floyd Mayweather is fighting handpicked opponents against whom he can conduct dizzying Compubox landslides. That's why no one with a semblance of cognitive function would bring up Compubox stats.
Floyd also has a trophy cabinet full of glittering belts that Sugar Ray never won. They didn't exist in Ray's day, but no doubt some people will still hold that against him.
One of the biggest overstatements that exists when comparing old school fighters to todays fighters. Half of Ray Robinsons opponents had more than 15 losses or a losing record. What makes Ray Robinson so great is that he fought so often, but the best of the best, fight after fight? For example Ray Robinson fought a guy by the name of Ossie Harris who had a record of 38-35-6 for his 73rd fight, not only did he fight him once, he fought him twice!! Ray Robinson fought several opponents that weren't even contenders. LMAO get a grip.
You also don't fight 26 world champions by cherry picking. Floyd has fought more world champions than anyone that's currently in boxing, what's that say for the rest of the boxing world? Floyd has proven his superiority time and time again, against some of the best the sport has to offer.
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 18:53
by Pureist
Floyd is fighting in an era where ther is more world champions because of the sanctioning bodies, how could Robinson fight that many world champions, he would have had to go up in weight 26 times, HE WAS THE WORLD CHAMPION, stand alone world champion
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 18:54
by Pureist
Pureist wrote:Floyd is fighting in an era where there is more world champions because of the sanctioning bodies, how could Robinson fight that many world champions, he would have had to go up in weight 26 times, HE WAS THE WORLD CHAMPION, stand alone world champion
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 19:00
by thunderfromdownunder
Could you imagine if sugar ray was around now? With modern training and diet ect.
Plus not having two fight every other day. He'd have torn through these guys
Re: Floyd says he's better than Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 19:17
by tiny_acres
thunderfromdownunder wrote:Could you imagine if sugar ray was around now? With modern training and diet ect.
Plus not having two fight every other day. He'd have torn through these guys
And yet in the days of keyboard warriors he would be bashed for something.And said that any guy
from the olden days would of kicked his butt.