BoxRec

The lawsuits aren't dangerous, they are just some of the millions of pathetic suits filed each year in America. Buyer beware is what they call it in America. It's the same thing as seeing a stinky movie because the commercials were great and it seemed like it was going to be good.

Imagine all of the people that bet on NFL games in the fall suing the NFL because they bet money on a team without knowing that they were hiding a significant injury. Or some pitcher takes the mound in baseball but has the flu and lets up 7 earned runs in the first inning. There's risk with buying any sporting event ticket. You aren't guaranteed to see a gem each time out.

Maybe Boxers will finally realize that NO ONE wants to hear excuses after a loss in a post fight interview in the ring. If i'm a trainer or a promoter, this is the first thing that I would teach these guys. If they want to leak something to the media a week after the fight, fine. But a post fight interview after loss can tell you all that you want to know about a boxer's character. I lost a ton of respect for Manny that night because i thought he would be a gentleman and congratulate Floyd. Heck, he would have been fine with saying that he thought that he won the fight but it's just so lame to point to an injury and use it as an excuse. There's no honor in that at all. None.

caldo2025 wrote:The lawsuits aren't dangerous, they are just some of the millions of pathetic suits filed each year in America. Buyer beware is what they call it in America. It's the same thing as seeing a stinky movie because the commercials were great and it seemed like it was going to be good.

Imagine all of the people that bet on NFL games in the fall suing the NFL because they bet money on a team without knowing that they were hiding a significant injury. Or some pitcher takes the mound in baseball but has the flu and lets up 7 earned runs in the first inning. There's risk with buying any sporting event ticket. You aren't guaranteed to see a gem each time out.

Maybe Boxers will finally realize that NO ONE wants to hear excuses after a loss in a post fight interview in the ring. If i'm a trainer or a promoter, this is the first thing that I would teach these guys. If they want to leak something to the media a week after the fight, fine. But a post fight interview after loss can tell you all that you want to know about a boxer's character. I lost a ton of respect for Manny that night because i thought he would be a gentleman and congratulate Floyd. Heck, he would have been fine with saying that he thought that he won the fight but it's just so lame to point to an injury and use it as an excuse. There's no honor in that at all. None.

I am pretty sure that Manny's advisers would have told him to say he was injured. He's close to the end of his career, and they want to recycle him for a few more big fights, ideally another shot at mayweather.

caldo2025 wrote:The lawsuits aren't dangerous, they are just some of the millions of pathetic suits filed each year in America.

i hope you are right.

caldo2025 wrote:Imagine all of the people that bet on NFL games in the fall suing the NFL because they bet money on a team without knowing that they were hiding a significant injury. Or some pitcher takes the mound in baseball but has the flu and lets up 7 earned runs in the first inning. There's risk with buying any sporting event ticket. You aren't guaranteed to see a gem each time out.

i think you are right.

caldo2025 wrote:... If they want to leak something to the media a week after the fight, fine. But a post fight interview after loss can tell you all that you want to know about a boxer's character. I lost a ton of respect for Manny that night because i thought he would be a gentleman and congratulate Floyd.

you are so right. it was very, very
bad form and i am sure, and i am
not a fan, floyd would have behaved
differently the other way round. seeing
roach, arum and manny in one sorry
whining session, utterly classless.

caldo2025 wrote:The lawsuits aren't dangerous, they are just some of the millions of pathetic suits filed each year in America. Buyer beware is what they call it in America. It's the same thing as seeing a stinky movie because the commercials were great and it seemed like it was going to be good.

Imagine all of the people that bet on NFL games in the fall suing the NFL because they bet money on a team without knowing that they were hiding a significant injury. Or some pitcher takes the mound in baseball but has the flu and lets up 7 earned runs in the first inning. There's risk with buying any sporting event ticket. You aren't guaranteed to see a gem each time out.

Maybe Boxers will finally realize that NO ONE wants to hear excuses after a loss in a post fight interview in the ring. If i'm a trainer or a promoter, this is the first thing that I would teach these guys. If they want to leak something to the media a week after the fight, fine. But a post fight interview after loss can tell you all that you want to know about a boxer's character. I lost a ton of respect for Manny that night because i thought he would be a gentleman and congratulate Floyd. Heck, he would have been fine with saying that he thought that he won the fight but it's just so lame to point to an injury and use it as an excuse. There's no honor in that at all. None.

I do not support frivolous litigation. I am currently fighting two such cases as we speak. This is not an example of one.

The preponderance of information suggests that both camps concealed that Pac had a torn rotator cuff going into the "fight." If that is true both camps concealed the information from the public, curtailing individuals' ability to make an informed buying decision and exposing legal gamblers to much higher risk.

The most important question is whether the teams colluded to deceive the public? A second, very pertinent question is did anyone utilize the concealed information to make bets on the "fight," knowing the outcome.

This is not about whether or not a boxer should or should not fight injured. This is about bilking hundreds of thousands of people of their money and insider gambling.

Tanzio wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:A Tanzio go get a dog up you sideways youd love that you ass wipe

Thank you for backing away from the caps lock. Very gourdesiderate of you.

Wonder is dog still with you sniffing your anus

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:A Tanzio go get a dog up you sideways youd love that you ass wipe

Thank you for backing away from the caps lock. Very gourdesiderate of you.

Wonder is dog still with you sniffing your anus

It hurts having that empty gourde stuffed up there doesn't it, Clive? Which is in more pain, your gourde or where it is shoved?

If he was actually injured ...

We used to call what Manny did toughness. Not too long ago, it was required in sports.
Required, not optional in any reasonable (closer to unreasonable) situation.

It's all you youths whose reality didn't really begin until the late 90's ...
... what Manny did seems really weird to you.

Tanzio should be sued its a dog for gods sake

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:If he was actually injured ...

We used to call what Manny did toughness. Not too long ago, it was required in sports.
Required, not optional in any reasonable (closer to unreasonable) situation.

It's all you youths whose reality didn't really begin until the late 90's ...
... what Manny did seems really weird to you.

Box wine night?

I am the only one arguing for the lawsuits here. Whether or not Pac fought injured is not material to the lawsuit as much as whether both camps concealed the information from the public for mutual gain, and whether they colluded to do so.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Tanzio should be sued its a dog for gods sake

I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Remove the gourde if you want to talk out your ass clearly (or resume caps lock).

Tanzio wrote: I do not support frivolous litigation. I am currently fighting two such cases as we speak. This is not an example of one.

The preponderance of information suggests that both camps concealed that Pac had a torn rotator cuff going into the "fight." If that is true both camps concealed the information from the public, curtailing individuals' ability to make an informed buying decision and exposing legal gamblers to much higher risk.

The most important question is whether the teams colluded to deceive the public? A second, very pertinent question is did anyone utilize the concealed information to make bets on the "fight," knowing the outcome.

This is not about whether or not a boxer should or should not fight injured. This is about bilking hundreds of thousands of people of their money and insider gambling.

First of all, if you feel the "both camps concealed information" then Vegas definitely knew about it and adjusted their betting lines accordingly to cover for it. It's up to the bettor to analyze shifts in Vegas Odds and to identify shifts in wagering. There's "inside" information kept from the public in most contests listed in a sports book and the very best bettors in America do their due diligence to get the best information possible before putting money down on an event.

Secondly, I had the same injury two years ago. Manny's tear wasn't a complete tear of the labrum, it was like mine, a slight tear. Which means that the shoulder still has the same amount of strength, it's just that some movements are kind of painful. The only reason to get it fixed is for quality of life (ie slight pain certain pulling movements which are just annoying but far from debilitating). Manny's surgery was so minor that he didn't even do any physical therapy afterwards. Any significant surgery must have PT following. Manny's claim that his therapy was swimming in salt water shows you how minor the injury was and surgery.

Floyd and Manny will most likely fight again and you will see a carbon copy performance because the injury had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome. Floyd is just better than Manny right now. 5 years ago? Who knows. But there's not case here against either camp or boxer.

Tanzio wrote:Again, this is not any fight. This is the biggest ppv in the history of the sport. It was more of a waltz than a fight.

at court this is precisely like any other fight.

Tanzio wrote:If the injury was not serious why did Pac bring it up at all? Why did he accuse FMJ of Foreknowledge? Why did team FMJ claim they knew everything going on in Pac's camp?

in order to create public pressure for a multi
million dollar rematch.

if i can take the steam out of your argument
within a sentence, what will the lawyers do
with months of preparation and resources
like crazy.

Tanzio wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:If he was actually injured ...

We used to call what Manny did toughness. Not too long ago, it was required in sports.
Required, not optional in any reasonable (closer to unreasonable) situation.

It's all you youths whose reality didn't really begin until the late 90's ...
... what Manny did seems really weird to you.

Box wine night?

I am the only one arguing for the lawsuits here. Whether or not Pac fought injured is not material to the lawsuit as much as whether both camps concealed the information from the public for mutual gain, and whether they colluded to do so.

FFS! Camps conceal their Injuries all the time in the leadup to the fight, it's common bloody sense, you don't want anyone to know of any weaknesses in your fighter. It's not against the law.

Just because Floyds camp claimed to know what was going on in Manny's camp, doesn't mean it is true, these sort of mind games go on all the time in the lead up to a fight, it's just psychological warfare.

There's bugger all chance of a lawsuit amounting to anything. Fighting with an injury is not breaking the law, nor is concealing an injury in a camp

If they could prove the fight was fixed that is a different matter, but it seems nobody but you believes that to be true, so not exactly compelling evidence.

You seem to have a serious hard-on for this issue, I know you believe you're right, but there's no actual evidence to support any of your wild theories. As others have said, Manny had a minor injury (if indeed he had one at all), which has been blown out of proportion by his management to build a case for a second fight - can you not get your head around that, it seems blindingly obvious to me, and most other people here. Ok, maybe you're the one lone wolf who has it right, but then again, perhaps you're a conspiracy nut grasping at shadows.

caldo2025 wrote:

Tanzio wrote: I do not support frivolous litigation. I am currently fighting two such cases as we speak. This is not an example of one.

The preponderance of information suggests that both camps concealed that Pac had a torn rotator cuff going into the "fight." If that is true both camps concealed the information from the public, curtailing individuals' ability to make an informed buying decision and exposing legal gamblers to much higher risk.

The most important question is whether the teams colluded to deceive the public? A second, very pertinent question is did anyone utilize the concealed information to make bets on the "fight," knowing the outcome.

This is not about whether or not a boxer should or should not fight injured. This is about bilking hundreds of thousands of people of their money and insider gambling.

First of all, if you feel the "both camps concealed information" then Vegas definitely knew about it and adjusted their betting lines accordingly to cover for it. It's up to the bettor to analyze shifts in Vegas Odds and to identify shifts in wagering. There's "inside" information kept from the public in most contests listed in a sports book and the very best bettors in America do their due diligence to get the best information possible before putting money down on an event.

Secondly, I had the same injury two years ago. Manny's tear wasn't a complete tear of the labrum, it was like mine, a slight tear. Which means that the shoulder still has the same amount of strength, it's just that some movements are kind of painful. The only reason to get it fixed is for quality of life (ie slight pain certain pulling movements which are just annoying but far from debilitating). Manny's surgery was so minor that he didn't even do any physical therapy afterwards. Any significant surgery must have PT following. Manny's claim that his therapy was swimming in salt water shows you how minor the injury was and surgery.

Floyd and Manny will most likely fight again and you will see a carbon copy performance because the injury had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome. Floyd is just better than Manny right now. 5 years ago? Who knows. But there's not case here against either camp or boxer.

Sorry "Mr. Everyone Else Is A Hater Or Dumb If You Don't Agree With Me" but collusion to deceive the public for mutual gain is not only grounds for lawsuits but could lead to criminal investigation and prosecution.

The courts will decide, not me or you.

But you're also clairvoyant enough to know how extensive his injury was without first hand knowledge, because you have had a slight tear of your rotator cuff?

You really are dumberer.

man wrote:

Tanzio wrote:Again, this is not any fight. This is the biggest ppv in the history of the sport. It was more of a waltz than a fight.

at court this is precisely like any other fight.

Tanzio wrote:If the injury was not serious why did Pac bring it up at all? Why did he accuse FMJ of Foreknowledge? Why did team FMJ claim they knew everything going on in Pac's camp?

in order to create public pressure for a multi
million dollar rematch.

if i can take the steam out of your argument
within a sentence, what will the lawyers do
with months of preparation and resources
like crazy.

No, this is not the same as every other fight in the court of law. The potential damages related to "The Waltz Of The Century" are exponentially higher than any other fight.

Lawyers do what lawyers do. That's why I employ the best. However, I don't win every court battle even with the best available attorney.

If there was collusion between the camps and anyone cracks this could blow up.

The smoke is there. Is it from a match or a bonfire?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:If he was actually injured ...

We used to call what Manny did toughness. Not too long ago, it was required in sports.
Required, not optional in any reasonable (closer to unreasonable) situation.

It's all you youths whose reality didn't really begin until the late 90's ...
... what Manny did seems really weird to you.

Box wine night?

I am the only one arguing for the lawsuits here. Whether or not Pac fought injured is not material to the lawsuit as much as whether both camps concealed the information from the public for mutual gain, and whether they colluded to do so.

FFS! Camps conceal their Injuries all the time in the leadup to the fight, it's common bloody sense, you don't want anyone to know of any weaknesses in your fighter. It's not against the law.

Just because Floyds camp claimed to know what was going on in Manny's camp, doesn't mean it is true, these sort of mind games go on all the time in the lead up to a fight, it's just psychological warfare.

There's bugger all chance of a lawsuit amounting to anything. Fighting with an injury is not breaking the law, nor is concealing an injury in a camp

If they could prove the fight was fixed that is a different matter, but it seems nobody but you believes that to be true, so not exactly compelling evidence.

You seem to have a serious hard-on for this issue, I know you believe you're right, but there's no actual evidence to support any of your wild theories. As others have said, Manny had a minor injury (if indeed he had one at all), which has been blown out of proportion by his management to build a case for a second fight - can you not get your head around that, it seems blindingly obvious to me, and most other people here. Ok, maybe you're the one lone wolf who has it right, but then again, perhaps you're a conspiracy nut grasping at shadows.

If both camps were aware of the injury and concealed it from the public in order to maximize profits then there are grounds for those who feel that they incurred damages to pursue a lawsuit.

If this information was utilized by either camp for gambling purposes, a criminal investigation may be spawned from the information revealed in the lawsuit(s).

Insider trading happens all the time too but when someone gets caught the consequences can be substantial.

The fact that injuries are concealed all the time does not make it right and it does not mean the norm should not be improved upon. That may be the only consequence of these lawsuits but injury reports made public prior to fights would be a positive step.

If collusion is revealed and the information concealed was also used for gambling purposes, this could be the straw that leads to the type of regulation that is long overdue in this industry.

But Tanzio, fighters go into fights with minor injuries of all kinds - sparring and training invariably leads to minor injuries, it puts wear and tear on the body, most professional athletes are carrying some sort of injury pretty much routinely. Unless an injury is such that a fighter can't actually throw punches (which was clearly not so in this case), then it would be absolutely impossible to legislate and rightly so. There's no grounds for a sensible litigation process.

My prediction, this lawsuit will come to nothing, there will be no proof of collusion, and therefore no case to bring.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:But Tanzio, fighters go into fights with minor injuries of all kinds - sparring and training invariably leads to minor injuries, it puts wear and tear on the body, most professional athletes are carrying some sort of injury pretty much routinely. Unless an injury is such that a fighter can't actually throw punches (which was clearly not so in this case), then it would be absolutely impossible to legislate and rightly so. There's no grounds for a sensible litigation process.

My prediction, this lawsuit will come to nothing, there will be no proof of collusion, and therefore no case to bring.

What would your suggestion be, ever minor injury has to be put out there in the public domain. That would be crazy, if a fighter had pulled muscle in his ribcage, the other fighter would just target it excessively. It's just not workable or sensible.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:But Tanzio, fighters go into fights with minor injuries of all kinds - sparring and training invariably leads to minor injuries, it puts wear and tear on the body, most professional athletes are carrying some sort of injury pretty much routinely. Unless an injury is such that a fighter can't actually throw punches (which was clearly not so in this case), then it would be absolutely impossible to legislate and rightly so. There's no grounds for a sensible litigation process.

My prediction, this lawsuit will come to nothing, there will be no proof of collusion, and therefore no case to bring.

You are probably right, but lawsuits lead to depositions. Funny things happen when people are faced with swearing to tell the truth.

Of course pro athletes play with minor injuries all the time. It is still unclear what the severity of the injury was. Maybe there was no injury at all. What then?

We will see.

I am of the opinion that "The Fight Of The Century" was a choreographed waltz. I was convinced that it would be by the final presser.

I have no claim of damages since I paid nothing for the fight and I did not place any wagers. Plenty of people have a claim, if of nothing else, of being bored to tears.

I need no evidence. However, the information available clearly suggests that both camps were aware of the injury. If true they both concealed it from the public.

The public deserves to know why and whether collusion was involved.

Tanzio wrote:No, this is not the same as every other fight in the court of law. The potential damages related to "The Waltz Of The Century" are exponentially higher than any other fight.

that doesn't make any difference at all. if a
court rules that an injury like manny claimed
he had before the bout, is enough to give
people their money back, then it does so
irrespectively of the ppv numbers.

which is as well the danger, 'cause from then
onwards every other fight can be disputed
using manny-floyd as a precedence. which
as well means: no more mega fights, because
no one can shoulder that risk.

Hey, look at me, I'm Tanzio...I put "MR" in front of all my insults because it makes it so much more funny and so cute.

Oh yeah, because that fight would have been so easy to postpone right? You really are pathetic....sorry, MR. Pathetic.hahahah oh you're right, that's so fun to do. So Manny is being sued because he fought through an injury like every other boxer who ever stepped into the ring? You think that case holds water Mr. Johnny Corcoran?

You are just like the rest of the pathetic losers waiting to slip at the grocery store so they can get paid to sit on the couch all day scratching lottery tickets with an ash tray piled up with butts. You are just a cheap bastard that spent a little money to buy the fight and now wants to get his money back because he was...ooohh...unfulfilled? Get a life, MR Zipperhead. Buyer beware. You would have learned that in Micro Economics if you went to college but I'm sure that you're just waiting around for that lottery ticket or lawsuit to hit while the rest of us work for a living.

No proof Floyd's camp knew of any injury.

And even if the fantastic was true and they did, what obligation did they have to report unsubstantiated hearsay?

IJS....

caldo2025 wrote:Hey, look at me, I'm Tanzio...I put "MR" in front of all my insults because it makes it so much more funny and so cute.

Oh yeah, because that fight would have been so easy to postpone right? You really are pathetic....sorry, MR. Pathetic.hahahah oh you're right, that's so fun to do. So Manny is being sued because he fought through an injury like every other boxer who ever stepped into the ring? You think that case holds water Mr. Johnny Corcoran?

You are just like the rest of the pathetic losers waiting to slip at the grocery store so they can get paid to sit on the couch all day scratching lottery tickets with an ash tray piled up with butts. You are just a cheap bastard that spent a little money to buy the fight and now wants to get his money back because he was...ooohh...unfulfilled? Get a life, MR Zipperhead. Buyer beware. You would have learned that in Micro Economics if you went to college but I'm sure that you're just waiting around for that lottery ticket or lawsuit to hit while the rest of us work for a living.

Awww, did I touch a nerve, Mr. Dumberer? I'm not the one who accused everyone who disagrees with me of being "a hater and dumb." That would be you, Mr. Dumberer.

Being as ignorant as you are you get upset when you are called out for your ridiculous accusations and assumptions. You are very adept at expressing your ignorance on any subject, with pride. You aren't so good at reading or the comprehension of the little you actually do bother to read.

I didn't buy the fight Mr. Dumberer. I also did not wager on the fight. You would know that if you actually read more than the post where I named you.

You would also know that this has nothing to do with Pac fighting through an injury and everything to do with both teams concealing the information.

But you assume I believe in frivolous lawsuits. You accuse me of things that you have no idea about.

What I am pointing out about the Pac v FMJ situation is based on information that has been published which clearly represents that if Pac was injured both camps were aware of it and concealed it from the public.

What you are accusing me of is based on a fantasy you have conceived in that pea between your ears. But, that is characteristic of how you move through the world, Mr. Dumberer.

I have been sued and I sue when necessary. It is part of doing business, Mr. Dumberer. That is what the courts are for. This is a contract economy. If contracts are disputed we must get them resolved in court so we don't have to shoot it out.

But, you really don't have the capacity to understand much of that because it doesn't mesh with your fantasy of you knowing all about every subject and everyone who disagrees is a hater or dumb.

koolkc107 wrote:No proof Floyd's camp knew of any injury.

And even if the fantastic was true and they did, what obligation did they have to report unsubstantiated hearsay?

IJS....

Except of course Team FMJ's claim that they knew everything going on in Pac's camp.

man wrote:

Tanzio wrote:No, this is not the same as every other fight in the court of law. The potential damages related to "The Waltz Of The Century" are exponentially higher than any other fight.

that doesn't make any difference at all. if a
court rules that an injury like manny claimed
he had before the bout, is enough to give
people their money back, then it does so
irrespectively of the ppv numbers.

which is as well the danger, 'cause from then
onwards every other fight can be disputed
using manny-floyd as a precedence. which
as well means: no more mega fights, because
no one can shoulder that risk.

The claim is not based on his fighting with an injury. The success of the claim would be based on the concealing of the information by both teams, and the very distinct possibility of collusion involved in the concealment.