BoxRec

Is there any film footage of Henry Cooper (as a light-heavyweight) in the 1952 Olympics ?

At the end of the 4th round Angelo Dundee worsened the tear in Clay's glove. He brought this to the attention of the referee and the ref spoke to the Steward in charge. He instructed an inspector to go to the dressing room area to get a spare pair. Meanwhile the bell rang to start the next round and there was a delay of around FIVE seconds due to confusion in Clay's corner before the round got underway.
If people want to believe otherwise, fair enough.

dalcumly wrote:At the end of the 4th round Angelo Dundee worsened the tear in Clay's glove. He brought this to the attention of the referee and the ref spoke to the Steward in charge. He instructed an inspector to go to the dressing room area to get a spare pair. Meanwhile the bell rang to start the next round and there was a delay of around FIVE seconds due to confusion in Clay's corner before the round got underway.
If people want to believe otherwise, fair enough.

That's what the film conveys. Interesting, because the books I grew up with made it sound as there was a long delay and someone went back to get and put on new gloves. Apparently, that never happened.

The ring announcer got carried away as I, and others, have alluded to. Ali clearly was able to walk back to his own corner and then stand up and sit back down again.

He had a little kid expression in the corner but that was part of his personality. Some Cooper fans and Ali critics interpret the look as him being out of it.

That was what I have always thought. What difference does the supposed delay make? If there was 2 minutes and 50 seconds left in the round, Cooper was not going to stop him. He was up at three and looked fine.

There were two seconds left in the fourth round after he got up.

What I would say is this though.
Clay did walk back to his corner unaided, but in trying to stand up and the wide eye expression suggests to me that he was mildly concussed.
I have no doubt that if the knockdown had occurred 30 seconds or so earlier Cooper would have knocked him out. Cooper was a beast when he had a fighter in trouble. There were certain types of fighter ( big punchers) Cooper had trouble with basically because he boxed on the front foot and liked to push his opponents back. That's why he sometimes walked onto huge punches ( Johansson, Folley and Patterson). But Clay was not a huge puncher - he was a fast puncher. This allowed Henry to come forward. Its all history now but I'd have been very interested in how Clay/Ali would have looked after 15 rounds with Cooper if his eyes didn't open up so easily.
I'm biased of course, and I'm not suggesting Henry would have won, but Clay/Ali would have been looking for a long rest afterwards.

Right and people here do know that Henry Cooper was naturally left-handed ?
BTW IYOP Mr. Dancumly was the big (and deep) 3 inch gash on his left brow in their second fight from a punch or clash of heads ?

Tony1244 wrote:

dalcumly wrote:At the end of the 4th round Angelo Dundee worsened the tear in Clay's glove. He brought this to the attention of the referee and the ref spoke to the Steward in charge. He instructed an inspector to go to the dressing room area to get a spare pair. Meanwhile the bell rang to start the next round and there was a delay of around FIVE seconds due to confusion in Clay's corner before the round got underway.
If people want to believe otherwise, fair enough.

That's what the film conveys. Interesting, because the books I grew up with made it sound as there was a long delay and someone went back to get and put on new gloves. Apparently, that never happened.

The ring announcer got carried away as I, and others, have alluded to. Ali clearly was able to walk back to his own corner and then stand up and sit back down again.

He had a little kid expression in the corner but that was part of his personality. Some Cooper fans and Ali critics interpret the look as him being out of it.

I agree the ring announcer got 'carried away' - pro Cooper announcer; he even sounds 'hopeful' - but Clay actually looks and finds the Ref's count from the seat of his pants which suggests that he is clear headed even while he is on his pants - but the 'up and down' thing he does in the corner suggests someone who isn't sure where he is -- I am mixed I can't read it - I believe there is a 'rope-a-dope' irony here as well: the ropes are quite loose; Clay may well have gone down either way, and certainly would have gone down center ring, but the loose ropes gave him no chance to keep his feet whereas tighter ropes and Clay may not have gone down.

I'm not a lip reader but he seems to say "Is the fight over ?"

I dont think he could have stayed on his feet even if the ropes were tight the way that hook hit him.
He almost has the very same expression on his face from the photograph I've seen
when he was on the canvas in the first fight with Joe Frazier.

APerno wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

dalcumly wrote:At the end of the 4th round Angelo Dundee worsened the tear in Clay's glove. He brought this to the attention of the referee and the ref spoke to the Steward in charge. He instructed an inspector to go to the dressing room area to get a spare pair. Meanwhile the bell rang to start the next round and there was a delay of around FIVE seconds due to confusion in Clay's corner before the round got underway.
If people want to believe otherwise, fair enough.

That's what the film conveys. Interesting, because the books I grew up with made it sound as there was a long delay and someone went back to get and put on new gloves. Apparently, that never happened.

The ring announcer got carried away as I, and others, have alluded to. Ali clearly was able to walk back to his own corner and then stand up and sit back down again.

He had a little kid expression in the corner but that was part of his personality. Some Cooper fans and Ali critics interpret the look as him being out of it.

I agree the ring announcer got 'carried away' - pro Cooper announcer; he even sounds 'hopeful' - but Clay actually looks and finds the Ref's count from the seat of his pants which suggests that he is clear headed even while he is on his pants - but the 'up and down' thing he does in the corner suggests someone who isn't sure where he is -- I am mixed I can't read it - I believe there is a 'rope-a-dope' irony here as well: the ropes are quite loose; Clay may well have gone down either way, and certainly would have gone down center ring, but the loose ropes gave him no chance to keep his feet whereas tighter ropes and Clay may not have gone down.

Regarding the "up and down" thing he did in his corner I think that was smart. My read into that is Ali said something to the effect of "that man hit me real bad, Angie," in his kid-like way. And Dundee said, "you're not hurt, stand up and sit down." When Ali did that properly, he regained his confidence. Of course this is only my read. While on the subject, I've always wondered why boxers never walk around a bit or stretch their legs in the corner. Very few exceptions to this.

Tony1244 wrote:

APerno wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

That's what the film conveys. Interesting, because the books I grew up with made it sound as there was a long delay and someone went back to get and put on new gloves. Apparently, that never happened.

The ring announcer got carried away as I, and others, have alluded to. Ali clearly was able to walk back to his own corner and then stand up and sit back down again.

He had a little kid expression in the corner but that was part of his personality. Some Cooper fans and Ali critics interpret the look as him being out of it.

I agree the ring announcer got 'carried away' - pro Cooper announcer; he even sounds 'hopeful' - but Clay actually looks and finds the Ref's count from the seat of his pants which suggests that he is clear headed even while he is on his pants - but the 'up and down' thing he does in the corner suggests someone who isn't sure where he is -- I am mixed I can't read it - I believe there is a 'rope-a-dope' irony here as well: the ropes are quite loose; Clay may well have gone down either way, and certainly would have gone down center ring, but the loose ropes gave him no chance to keep his feet whereas tighter ropes and Clay may not have gone down.

Regarding the "up and down" thing he did in his corner I think that was smart. My read into that is Ali said something to the effect of "that man hit me real bad, Angie," in his kid-like way. And Dundee said, "you're not hurt, stand up and sit down." When Ali did that properly, he regained his confidence. Of course this is only my read. While on the subject, I've always wondered why boxers never walk around a bit or stretch their legs in the corner. Very few exceptions to this.

Possible - Dundee could assess what he has in front of him that way - Re 'walking about' - it may well be that a fighter is not to leave his corner during the one minute rest period - this excerpt form the London Prize Fight Rules is interesting:

Rule 7 That both men being ready, each man shall be conducted to that side of the scratch next his corner previously chosen; and the seconds on the one side and the men on the other, having shaken hands, the former shall immediately return to their corners, and there remain within the prescribed marks till the round be finished, on no pretence whatever approaching their principals during the round, under penalty of 5s. for each offence, at the option of the referee. The penalty, which will be strictly enforced, to go to the funds of the Association. The principal to be responsible for every fine inflicted on his second.

Funny thing - I always assumed that coming up to scratch meant coming to the center of the ring to 'one scratch' I never knew that each fighter had a scratch just in front of him in his own corner - that is: a fighter must wait in his corner until the ref calls "fight"

APerno wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

APerno wrote:

I agree the ring announcer got 'carried away' - pro Cooper announcer; he even sounds 'hopeful' - but Clay actually looks and finds the Ref's count from the seat of his pants which suggests that he is clear headed even while he is on his pants - but the 'up and down' thing he does in the corner suggests someone who isn't sure where he is -- I am mixed I can't read it - I believe there is a 'rope-a-dope' irony here as well: the ropes are quite loose; Clay may well have gone down either way, and certainly would have gone down center ring, but the loose ropes gave him no chance to keep his feet whereas tighter ropes and Clay may not have gone down.

Regarding the "up and down" thing he did in his corner I think that was smart. My read into that is Ali said something to the effect of "that man hit me real bad, Angie," in his kid-like way. And Dundee said, "you're not hurt, stand up and sit down." When Ali did that properly, he regained his confidence. Of course this is only my read. While on the subject, I've always wondered why boxers never walk around a bit or stretch their legs in the corner. Very few exceptions to this.

Possible - Dundee could assess what he has in front of him that way - Re 'walking about' - it may well be that a fighter is not to leave his corner during the one minute rest period - this excerpt form the London Prize Fight Rules is interesting:

Rule 7 That both men being ready, each man shall be conducted to that side of the scratch next his corner previously chosen; and the seconds on the one side and the men on the other, having shaken hands, the former shall immediately return to their corners, and there remain within the prescribed marks till the round be finished, on no pretence whatever approaching their principals during the round, under penalty of 5s. for each offence, at the option of the referee. The penalty, which will be strictly enforced, to go to the funds of the Association. The principal to be responsible for every fine inflicted on his second.

Funny thing - I always assumed that coming up to scratch meant coming to the center of the ring to 'one scratch' I never knew that each fighter had a scratch just in front of him in his own corner - that is: a fighter must wait in his corner until the ref calls "fight"

One of the few exceptions to this is Foreman (if I remember correctly) went on a short walk before the last round with Jimmy Young. He never got near Young's corner but walked back and forth to a neutral corner.

check out this (extract) of a BBC Radio interview with Henry Cooper from May 1966.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p009y3h0

Thanks for posting that Caractacus.

Here is some terrific rarely seen footage of the first Cooper vrs Zora Folley fight (1958).
check out the vicious heavy rabbit punch at 2:42.

Did Henry Cooper (or his manager) ever think about loosing some weight
and fighting again as a "light-heavyweight" as a pro?
I think he had fought (at an average) of around 185 lbs in the mid-1960's.
What did he weigh for each pro fight over the course of his pro boxing career ?