The Manassa Mauler vrs the Wild Bull of the Pampas (Sept.14.1923)

[Caractacus]

and what's up with the clip at about 2:30 ?
Looks like Dempsey knocks Firpo down,the ref starts the count,then Firpo then starts to get up
and Dempsey knocks him down again(as Dempsey steps over Firpo to get in the "Nuetral " corner )
and the ref looks to start another count again ?
(another knockdown of Firpo if even unofficial ?

Man,that night must have been Bedlam.

[Ambling Alp II]

Dempsey was not going to the farthest neutral corner after most of the knockdowns. Actually, the referee is supposed to point him to one if he doesn't start to go on his own. He was not doing that at all.

[Caractacus]

and whats with the ref not wiping the fighters gloves off whenever they got off the canvas there ?
surely there must have been reisen on the canvas from the previous bouts.
It may have slowed up the legendary action if he done so tho of course.

[Kalan]

The neutral corner rule hadn't taken effect yet... They put it in prior to the 2nd Dempsey-Tunney fight and that's why Dempsey was so confused in that fight... He didn't go to a neutral corner for several seconds after decking Tunney. It may have cost him the fight when the count was suspended and the referee directed him to the farthest neutral corner.

[Caractacus]

So why do you figure that Dempsey stepped over Firpo like that for ?
to get a better angle at him when he got back up on his feet ?
(probably,because it looks like Firpo was getting up on his right side).

[Caractacus]

Here is a better version with a voice-over anyway (sounds like its from the 1960's).
It states that there were eleven knockdowns in 2 rounds,including the one were Dempsey's gloves touch the canvas for a one count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QTiXmXHGI

[Kalan]

So why do you figure that Dempsey stepped over Firpo like that for ?
to get a better angle at him when he got back up on his feet ?
(probably,because it looks like Firpo was getting up on his right side).

Yeah, pretty obvious. Firpo was the foreigner. Nobody was going to help him back into the ring if he tumbled out. One of the reasons they put in the neutral corner rule in was guys like Dempsey standing behind downed opponents -- cranking up killer uppercuts as their gloves cleared the canvas. Many boxers stood off of opponents and let them rise to their feet unmolested, but this gentlemanly behavior wasn't codified in the rule book. I like the neutral corner rule in Boxing and it was aimed at guys like Dempsey ... In MMA they pounce on a floored opponent like it's a street fight---and continue to smash him until the referee pulls them off. Anytime you get decked with a blow in MMA it's probably over you.

[Ambling Alp II]

The neutral corner rule hadn't taken effect yet... They put it in prior to the 2nd Dempsey-Tunney fight and that's why Dempsey was so confused in that fight... He didn't go to a neutral corner for several seconds after decking Tunney. It may have cost him the fight when the count was suspended and the referee directed him to the farthest neutral corner.

The neutral corner rule was in effect for the Firpo fight; well it was supposed to be anyway. Dempsey just didn't follow it most of the time (notice a couple of times he seemed to remember) and the referee did not enforce it.

[Caractacus]

yeah,check out how after Firpo knocks Dempsey out of the ring he backs up slowly to the centre of the ring for Dempsey to get back in.

[Caractacus]

Man,it would really be cool if someone was to discover an original 35 mm negative or even a print of this fight in a vault somewhere.
It premiered on Broadway in NYC just 48 hours after the original fight took place.
(but not before Doc Kearns wanted the part of Dempsey being knocked out of the ring being cut before it was screened)
I think those fight films were developed at the film lab in Horsley studios at Cliffside New Jersey
(and could only legally be shown in the state were the fight took place).

[APerno]

Man,it would really be cool if someone was to discover an original 35 mm negative or even a print of this fight in a vault somewhere.
It premiered on Broadway in NYC just 48 hours after the original fight took place.
(but not before Doc Kearns wanted the part of Dempsey being knocked out of the ring being cut before it was screened)
I think those fight films were developed at the film lab in Horsley studios at Cliffside New Jersey
(and could only legally be shown in the state were the fight took place).

- the law wasn't repealed until 1939 - coming of TV and televised fights made the law unenforceable; - The Lou Nova - Buddy Bear fight (1939) was broadcast in New York life and seeped across the Hudson River into New Jersey, and everyone noticed - the law got brushed aside when it got in the way

and Joe Louis quieted the race question, which of course was its origin . . .the Senate held a celebrity parade with several noted champions, such Dempsey and Tunney, testifying what a 'nice negro' Joe Louis was . . . sad, but racial growing pains, I guess .

[Caractacus]

yeah and I also heard some people say that Gene Tunney was prety nice looking "for a White man ".

[Tony1244]

Man,it would really be cool if someone was to discover an original 35 mm negative or even a print of this fight in a vault somewhere.
It premiered on Broadway in NYC just 48 hours after the original fight took place.
(but not before Doc Kearns wanted the part of Dempsey being knocked out of the ring being cut before it was screened)
I think those fight films were developed at the film lab in Horsley studios at Cliffside New Jersey
(and could only legally be shown in the state were the fight took place).

- the law wasn't repealed until 1939 - coming of TV and televised fights made the law unenforceable; - The Lou Nova - Buddy Bear fight (1939) was broadcast in New York life and seeped across the Hudson River into New Jersey, and everyone noticed - the law got brushed aside when it got in the way

and Joe Louis quieted the race question, which of course was its origin . . .the Senate held a celebrity parade with several noted champions, such Dempsey and Tunney, testifying what a 'nice negro' Joe Louis was . . . sad, but racial growing pains, I guess .

I think Jimmy Cannon said, "Joe Louis is a credit to his race; the human race."

During that time, "a nice negro" quote wasn't an insult. It would be like calling someone "a nice woman," or "a nice guy" now.

[Caractacus]

yeah,when chicks say to you that 'You're a Nice Guy" you can probably bet that you aint gettin' none.
(take it from experience).).

[Tony1244]

yeah,when chicks say to you that 'You're a Nice Guy" you can probably bet that you aint gettin' none.
(take it from experience).).

Ain't that the truth.

I'm with you there.

[pound per pound]

Why is the count edited? Very fishy. Maybe because more than 20 seconds passed.

[elmersalsa]

It looked to me by watching the film that Luis Angel Firpo pushed the great Jack Dempsey out of the ring. It didn't seemed to me that a real punch put the Manassa Mauler out of the ring. It was a wild fight, though. I imagine the people watching this live. I imagine if there were so many knockdowns in a fight today.

This was Dempsey's greatest win. Ironically, Firpo missed the opportunity to be the first Latin or Hispanic fighter of being world champion. Six years later, the great Panama Al Brown of Panama, becomes the first Latin or Hispanic world champion. It took 67 years later, that John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz of Puerto Rico, becomes the first Hispanic boxer to become heavyweight world champion when he beat the great Evander Holyfield.

[Caractacus]

On a releated note ,I think Jim J. Jeffries should really be considerd the first "Anglo"(i.e WASP) Heavyweight champion,
because John L. Sullivan," Gentleman" Jim Corbett
and Bob Fitzsimmons were all really "Hiberian" in extraction
(yeah,I know Fitzsimmons was actually a Cornishman,but his mum was Irish i believe,
nethertheless he was one hundred percent "Celtic".

[APerno]

Interesting – love ethnic history lists . . .please correct if you know more

• John L. Sullivan - Celtic (Irish) [American]
• James J. Corbett - Celtic (Irish) [American]
• Bob Fitzsimmons - Anglo - Celtic (Irish) [British]
• James J. Jeffries - Anglo [American]
• Marvin Hart - No Clue!
• Tommy Burns - Germanic [Canadian]
• Jack Johnson - African [American]
• Jess Willard - Anglo [American]
• Jack Dempsey - Celtic (Irish) - American Indian (Cherokee) - Jew [American]
• Gene Tunney - Celtic (Irish) [American]
• Max Schmeling - Germanic [German]
• Jack Sharkey - Lithuanian (some consider a cross between Slavic and Nordic) [American]
• Primo Carnera - Latin (Italian) [Italian]
• Max Baer - German - Celtic (Scots-Irish) - Jew [American]
• James J. Braddock - Celtic (Irish) [American]
• Joe Louis - African - American Indian (Cherokee) [American]
• Ezzard Charles - African [American]
• Jersey Joe Walcott - African [American]
• Rocky Marciano - Latin (Italian) [American]
• Floyd Patterson - African [American]
• Ingemar Johansson - Nordic [Swedish]
• Floyd Patterson - African [American]
• Sonny Liston - African [American]
• Cassius Clay - African [American]
• Joe Frazier - African [American]
• George Foreman - African [American]
• Muhammad Ali - African [American]
• Leon Spinks - African [American]
• Muhammad Ali - African [American]
• Larry Holmes - African [American]
• Michael Spinks - African [American]
• Mike Tyson - African [American]
• James Douglas - African [American]
• Evander Holyfield - African [American]
• Riddick Bowe - African [American]
• Evander Holyfield - African [American]
• Michael Moorer - African [American]
• George Foreman - African [American]
• Shannon Briggs - African [American]
• Lennox Lewis - African [British]
• Hasim Rahman - African [American]
• Lennox Lewis - African [Jamacian]
• Wladimir Klitschko - Slavic [Ukrainian]
• Tyson Fury - African [British]

[Caractacus]

I think Tommy Burns was a French Candadian
Joe Louis's one grandmother was Cherokee
and Lennox Lewis is of Jamacian heritage.
and Tyson Fury is of "Travelor" extraction
Vitali Klitschko may be of Ukrainian and Khazakistani hertiage I think.

[APerno]

I think Tommy Burns was a French Candadian
Joe Louis's one grandmother was Cherokee
and Lennox Lewis is of Jamacian heritage.
and Tyson Fury is of "Travelor" extraction
Vitali Klitschko may be of Ukrainian and Khazakistani hertiage I think.

Thanks - I corrected them - except for the Tommy Burns - he seems to have been of German origin, not French Canadian - thanks again.

[klompton]

So why do you figure that Dempsey stepped over Firpo like that for ?
to get a better angle at him when he got back up on his feet ?
(probably,because it looks like Firpo was getting up on his right side).

wrong, the neutral corner rule went into effect in new york where this fight was held in 1920 with the walker law.

[Caractacus]

Man,are you sure ?
That he wasn't French and isn't Brusso an Italian surname ?
(Jack Johnson referd to him as a "Jew" in his autobiography
BTW I dont think Bob Fitzsimmons had any "Anglo" ancestry either.
(such a generic term these days)
Its true that he was a Cornishman from Cornwall that is located in Southwest England,
but thats Celtic land.

[Caractacus]

Americans(such as myself) usually have a bit of "Heinz 57" in them.
for example Jim J. Jeffries mum was of Dutch ancestry.

and of Dutch /Afrikkaner ancestry would be Gerrie Coetzee.
Corrie Sanders ( a South African )would appear to be of Anglo ancestry judging by his surname and military looking mustache.

[APerno]

Man,are you sure ?
That he wasn't French and isn't Brusso an Italian surname ?
(Jack Johnson referd to him as a "Jew" in his autobiography
BTW I dont think Bob Fitzsimmons had any "Anglo" ancestry either.
(such a generic term these days)
Its true that he was a Cornishman from Cornwall that is located in Southwest England,
but thats Celtic land.

On Fitzsimmons, that would be a failing of my bias; anyone born in England is Anglo to me, but i understand how wrong that can be, even back then.

The Burns is of German origin I got off Wikipedia - so I would not stand by that for a second. LOL

Johnson called Burns a Jew?