The Manassa Mauler vrs the Wild Bull of the Pampas (Sept.14.1923)

[Caractacus]

One of the Great Fights of the Twentieth Century was 96 years ago today.
Where were thee in '23 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

[Caractacus]

Is there a more compleat version of round one that exists of this famous fight ?
Because in watching it I figure there is at least 15 seconds missing from the round(although it looks time compressed)
( and it looks like frames from the height of the action may have been sniped out ,probably by a fight photo collector,
such as when Dempsey lands the his famous left hook that knocks Firpo down for the first time at 1:13,
you dont see that punch actually land )

[Caractacus]

the Dempsey/Firpo fight was voted in 1950 by the Associated Press Poll
to be THE MOST DRAMATIC sports event since 1900.

[Caractacus]

The Polo Grounds in NYC (attendance 85,000 )
with an addional 20,000 trying to get in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtUYQ5ZL_NM

[Cutman Scabbers]

Have you ever seen a more right hand-happy fighter than Firpo?

[Ambling Alp II]

the Dempsey/Firpo fight was voted in 1950 by the Associated Press Poll
to be THE MOST DRAMATIC sports event since 1900.

I think to have actually been there with all the noise from the huge crowd, and all the knockdowns, and Dempsey getting knocked out of the ring, would have been incredibly exciting.

[Caractacus]

Yes,too bad they didnt have the technolgy available for sound to movies in 1923
because it really would have preserved an extra demension to the footage.
I wonder if there still exists a clean a copy as that Pathe footage of the crowd trying to get into the Polo grounds ?
(if it exists I'm sure klompton has a copy of it for sure ).

[Caractacus]

I had read somewhere where Jack Dempsey didnt even remember getting knocked out of the ring, only coming to in-between rounds on his stool.
(the only time that smelling salts were used on Jack Dempsey)

[Cutman Scabbers]

I had read somewhere where Jack Dempsey didnt even remember getting knocked out of the ring, only coming to in-between rounds on his stool.
(the only time that smelling salts were used on Jack Dempsey)

They're not good for you, right?

[APerno]

I had read somewhere where Jack Dempsey didnt even remember getting knocked out of the ring, only coming to in-between rounds on his stool.
(the only time that smelling salts were used on Jack Dempsey)

In the mini-series 'Dempsey' (circa 1983) they play it with Dempsey coming back to the corner being very confused as to why Kearns is so excited and upset, as if he is unaware as to what just happened but sensing all the panic around him, saying something to the effect: "What's all the fuss about Doc?" which causes Kearns to realize Dempsey is still out of it - I read years ago a Kearns' interview where he stated that Dempsey came back to the corner and asked him what round it was, and when Kearns replied "Round two coming up," Dempsey stared back at him in disbelief. - Either story sounds good.

[Caractacus]

One of the Great Fights of the Twentieth Century was 96 years ago today.
Where were thee in '23 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

Dempsey gets knocked down with a right hand by Firpo in the first ten seconds of the fight footage of round One
there at about 57 seconds into the clip .
Firpo throws a right and Dempsey falls to his knees
but the ref doesnt do a count in that film footage it looks like anyway,
so there appears to be a jump cut in the film footage a second after that .
(Oddly the much later dubbed voice over on the film doesnt refer to the first Dempsey knockdown either)

[pound per pound]

One of the Great Fights of the Twentieth Century was 96 years ago today.
Where were thee in '23 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

Dempsey gets knocked down with a right hand by Firpo in the first ten seconds of the fight footage of round One
there at about 57 seconds into the clip .
Firpo throws a right and Dempsey falls to his knees
but the ref doesnt do a count in that film footage it looks like anyway,
so there appears to be a jump cut in the film footage a second after that .
(Oddly the much later dubbed voice over on the film doesnt refer to the first Dempsey knockdown either)

There is a rumor that Dempsey was out of the ring for more than 20 seconds. If so, Firpo wins by the rules.

Lots of editing here.

[Caractacus]

also check out the right hands that Firpo lands on Dempsey at
2:17 That punch looks like it could have ended the fight if it had landed flush (both of Dempsey's gloves touch the canvas)
and also the punch at 2:47
of the first round looked like it may have hurt.

[Caractacus]

So was Dempsey knocked down three times in the first round on the official scorecard ?
( or did they not have a at least one glove touches canvas is considered a knockdown ,rule back in 1923 ?)

[APerno]

So was Dempsey knocked down three times in the first round on the official scorecard ?
( or did they not have a at least one glove touches canvas is considered a knockdown ,rule back in 1923 ?)

One of the glove touches (mid-round) looks to be a slip - the opening 'knee down' was counted as a knockdown by most reporters - where was the third?

[Caractacus]

So was Dempsey knocked down three times in the first round on the official scorecard ?
( or did they not have a at least one glove touches canvas is considered a knockdown ,rule back in 1923 ?)

One of the glove touches (mid-round) looks to be a slip - the opening 'knee down' was counted as a knockdown by most reporters - where was the third?

When Firpo knocks Dempsey out of the ring.

[Caractacus]

Hey Al Perno
I watched the clip for the first time in many years but without reading up on the fight beforehand(and without audio)to be influenced
by what I was watching.
I counted three knockdowns of Dempsey in the first round,
at 57 seconds of the clip
2:17 of the clip
and 3:00 of the clip
Boxrec doesnt have any knockdowns of Dempsey listed here .



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

[APerno]

Hey Al Perno
I watched the clip for the first time in many years but without reading up on the fight beforehand(and without audio)to be influenced
by what I was watching.
I counted three knockdowns of Dempsey in the first round,
at 57 seconds of the clip
2:17 of the clip
and 3:00 of the clip
Boxrec doesnt have any knockdowns of Dempsey listed here .



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

Yea OK I see what you mean - it is hard to see the 2:17 one - Firpo certainly throws a wide right hand, but I am not sure if it catches Dempsey or if he slips to the canvas trying to duck under it. - Most of the time (at least from what I have read about the fight) they do consider the first one a knockdown (.57) - totaling the knockdowns as 9 for the round. Firpo down 7 times, Dempsey down twice.

[Kalan]

That voice is the same annoying announcer who dubs in the commentary for a million YouTube fights and hypes the Hell out of them... "The picture is stopped so you can see the punch just before it lands." ... The punch had already landed... Firpo was a crude swinger...a lower caliber boxer than Arnold Gjergjaj.

[Caractacus]

according to newspapers accounts the fights first knockdown
when Dempsey was coming in and Firpo launched that right hand that landed , Dempsey fell to his left knee and grabbed ahold of Firpo's leg
to prevent falling on his face (those frames were obviously spliced out by a collector many years ealier).
and did the ref even give a count ?

and as far as I can tell about the possible knockdown a 2:17.
I watched it again,it looks like the punch may have only grazed Dempsey's jaw by some whiskers maybe,
but it looks like it at least spun him halfway around.(although the frame looks too dark to really tell really)
But looking at it again just now ,Dempsey's head stops for a nano-second like his bell had been rung when it looks like it had hit him.

[Kalan]

I had another version of the fight at one time... Firpo definitely decked Dempsey right away with a right and they messed with this version.

[Caractacus]

There is about 12 postings of the Dempsey-Firpo fight on youtube,but they're all from the same footage from BigFights Inc..

[Caractacus]

According to Jack Dempsey himself ,it was the first punch that had knocked him down to the knee that made him "goofy'
He was fighting the rest of the round on instinct until he got back to his corner and his trainer Jerry Luvadis
threw a bucket of water over him to revive him that made him remember where he was, and then Jack Kearns
brought the bottle of smelling salts under his nose.

[Ambling Alp II]

Somehting that is interesting is the nuetral corner rule was supposed to be in effect. Several times Dempsey stood right over Firpo and hammered him before he could really gather himself. A few times he seemed to remember the rule and at least backed off.

The referee seemed have overlooked the rule himself. It was interesting that when Firpo knocked Dempsey out of the ring, the referee seemed to be looking at Firpo to make sure that he was not too close. Firpo did not go back to a corner but stood in the middle of the ring.

[Caractacus]

One of the Great Fights of the Twentieth Century was 96 years ago today.
Where were thee in '23 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

Dempsey gets knocked down with a right hand by Firpo in the first ten seconds of the fight footage of round One
there at about 57 seconds into the clip .
Firpo throws a right and Dempsey falls to his knees
but the ref doesnt do a count in that film footage it looks like anyway,
so there appears to be a jump cut in the film footage a second after that .
(Oddly the much later dubbed voice over on the film doesnt refer to the first Dempsey knockdown either)

There is a rumor that Dempsey was out of the ring for more than 20 seconds. If so, Firpo wins by the rules.

Lots of editing here.

Was that rumour of 20 seconds out of the ring started by Doc Kearns around the same time the rumour of Dempsey had plastered wraps
in his fight with Willard ?
Although there is a jump cut in the film footage ,it looks to me like the ref was still counting to ten when Dempsey got back into the ring.