Tyson vs Tyson

elmersalsa
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by elmersalsa »

Kalan wrote:You know, it's damned funny. People were bragging about how David Haye was going to murder Fury.. I was on the fence a bit, but then Haye came up with a cut eye.. Then he came up with a bad shoulder.. Then the people who hated Fury were bragging about how Klitschko was going to murder Fury because a Cruiserweight put him down... Of course, a Cruiserweight knocked Mike down too... and beat Mike TF up... and knocked Mike out.. The only person who ever knocked Steve Cunningham out is Tyson Fury

If you're going to disqualify everyone who was ever knocked down, just look back at all the ATG Heavyweight Champions.. I don't know why Wladimir wore gloves when he fought Fury. I guess his hands were cold because he wasn't throwing anything.. It's damned hard to throw when your opponent is so big, tall, and long, and a good boxer.. Fury kept poking punches in Wlad's face and he was afraid to come in -- kind of like Mike when he fought Lewis.. Fury is a slick defender and Mike was wide open for everything.. Douglas beat the crap out of poor little Mike for the duration... Then he teed the short little dude up and knocked him TFO... kind of like the way Lewis teed Mike up, but with a lot more variety in his punches and fluidity in his delivery. The 42/1 favorite had a very hard time getting his shots off.

Bottom line? ... Many people knocked out Buster Douglas -- and some of them weren't very good.. Fury is unbeaten and untied.. He's not going to remain that way if he ever fights Anthony Joshua, but for now he is... and he would have beaten the other guy named Tyson in a walk.
You must be out of your mind that a guy like Tyson Fury beats the great Mike Tyson. This fight would have been a slaughter a la Jack Dempsey-Jess Willard or Joe Louis-Primo Carnera butchery.

Buster Douglas beat Tyson because he had the attributes of a big heavyweight should be: Tall, strong, good reach, good jab, and in perfect weight at 231lbs. Plus, he was faster than Tyson throwing the jab and overhand right. He fought a perfect fight. Plus, he was not a scared stiff and was motivated.

In Tyson's defense, I believe he was in an OFF NIGHT. Greg Page gave him a knockdown in sparring before the fight. Inside sources say that Iron Mike was terrible in sparring. Kevin Rooney wasn't his trainer anymore. We saw the decline in the first Frank Bruno fight. Plus, he had an awful corner of yes men that didn't know nothing about training a boxer. They were just there to supply Don King's demands. Tyson even had some austracious orgies with some Japanese women strippers. His mind wasn't in boxing. He figured that it was an easy payday. That he believed his own hype that nobody could beat him. He was utterly overconfident. I thought that the fight was gonna be another one round fest like he was doing and go home. What I saw was an incredible performance by Douglas. We cannot take that away from him. He fought his fight. Could have he done it with a motivated Tyson of the 80s? Probably yes, probably not. But it would have been a much dramatic fight for sure.

I thought that if Douglas would have come in that same type of shape and motivation, he would have beaten the great Evander Holyfield, too. But, we know what happened. Douglas came fat, disinterested, unmotivated, overweight and in an OFF NIGHT. Douglas mind was not into it after Tyson I believe. He just wanted those $25 million dollars and go home quickly. And that's what happened. He got dispatched quickly by The Real Deal. Ain't no way that you beat Holyfield in his prime and you didn't train to face him. That is a no no.
Kalan
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

Well... I think you must be out of your mind to think Mike Tyson could beat a big, tall, long guy who could box as well as Fury.. Mike would never survive were he fighting today.. The bigger, taller, faster, stronger boxers like Ortiz, Joshua, Wilder, and even Fury would dispatch him... Buster Douglas proved it.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by elmersalsa »

Kalan wrote:Well... I think you must be out of your mind to think Mike Tyson could beat a big, tall, long guy who could box as well as Fury.. Mike would never survive were he fighting today.. The bigger, taller, faster, stronger boxers like Ortiz, Joshua, Wilder, and even Fury would dispatch him... Buster Douglas proved it.
You must be crazy! Those BUMS are not in Iron Mike's class!
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

Don't try to BS me... I saw Mike run over a pile of oldsters, smallies, and bums, and get shlttcanned by Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis... 5 X KO'd
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

golden oldie wrote:
Kalan wrote:Well... I think you must be out of your mind to think Mike Tyson could beat a big, tall, long guy who could box as well as Fury.. Mike would never survive were he fighting today.. The bigger, taller, faster, stronger boxers like Ortiz, Joshua, Wilder, and even Fury would dispatch him... Buster Douglas proved it.
But Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs, and Biggs who were ALL at least 5 inches taller than Tyson with at least 6 inch reach advantages over him DIDN'T prove it.


Hmmmmm.
Tubbs wasn't big -- He was super fat... The Tucker fight convinced Douglas that he could beat Tyson; Mike couldn't do anything... Biggs has 15 fights and was flattened by many other Heavyweights... Thomas was a cocaine addict who the inept Tommy Morrison destroyed in the 1st round.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BitPlayer »

I have serious doubts even Mike Tyson could overcome almost a foot in height and over a foot in reach, especialy with Fury being pretty mobile and good at tying up.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BitPlayer »

Tomasino wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Fury and mike respectively.

Is this a case of one man simply being too overwhelmingly tall?

Too tall to fail?

Mike destroys the big lump. If Cunningham can floor Fury, then Mike can keep him floored.

Tyson KO 5
1. Prime Fury isn't that 24 yearold without a trainer not taking it seriously. By that logic if Danny Williams, and McBride can knock out Mike Tyson, Tyson Fury ruins him.

2.Cunningham is 6'3" with an 82" reach, Mike Tyson is 5'10" with a 71" reach, that difference is a gamechanger.

I found one sub 6 foot fighter (albeit still taller than Mike Tyson) on Tyson Fury's record.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzFPA6N3sM
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

golden oldie wrote:
Kalan wrote:
golden oldie wrote:
But Thomas, Tucker, Tubbs, and Biggs who were ALL at least 5 inches taller than Tyson with at least 6 inch reach advantages over him DIDN'T prove it.


Hmmmmm.
Tubbs wasn't big -- He was super fat... The Tucker fight convinced Douglas that he could beat Tyson; Mike couldn't do anything... Biggs has 15 fights and was flattened by many other Heavyweights... Thomas was a cocaine addict who the inept Tommy Morrison destroyed in the 1st round.
I couldn't give a shite about what happened to fighters AFTER they were beaten by Tyson like Thomas, and Biggs, and I also don't give a shite whether or not Tubbs was fat. You made a categorical ( stupid ) statement that Tyson couldn't beat a tall long fellow who could box as well as Fury. Anyone who has at least 5 " in height, and 6 " in reach over Tyson is tall and long as far as he is concerned, but he beat enough of them.

By the way have you ever seen any of those guys uppercut themselves on the chin the way Fury did? :lol: :lol:
You're the dumbest person on the planet.. Tucker did well with Tyson, and convinced Douglas he could beat Mike easy... Douglas beat the living crap out of Tyson and stopped him... Biggs was a greenhorn with 15 fights... Thomas was a drug addict.. What's so damned hard to understand about those 4 fights??? ... They don't prove Mike could beat 6'9" X 250 Fury, who had a better jab and defensive skills than any of those guys.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BitPlayer »

Fury has four inches of height and 20Ibs on those guys.

Whaat's next, if Pac Man can beat Vargas he can beat Froch? I mean they're both massive compared to him anyway.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

golden oldie wrote:
Kalan wrote:
golden oldie wrote:
I couldn't give a shite about what happened to fighters AFTER they were beaten by Tyson like Thomas, and Biggs, and I also don't give a shite whether or not Tubbs was fat. You made a categorical ( stupid ) statement that Tyson couldn't beat a tall long fellow who could box as well as Fury. Anyone who has at least 5 " in height, and 6 " in reach over Tyson is tall and long as far as he is concerned, but he beat enough of them.

By the way have you ever seen any of those guys uppercut themselves on the chin the way Fury did? :lol: :lol:
You're the dumbest person on the planet.. Tucker did well with Tyson, and convinced Douglas he could beat Mike easy... Douglas beat the living crap out of Tyson and stopped him... Biggs was a greenhorn with 15 fights... Thomas was a drug addict.. What's so damned hard to understand about those 4 fights??? ... They don't prove Mike could beat 6'9" X 250 Fury, who had a better jab and defensive skills than any of those guys.
You can waffle on all you like about individual fighters problems or experience. It is of no consequence at all. In his 16th fight Fury faced Firtha, Biggs faced Tyson. In his 8th fight Biggs faced Quick Tillis, Fury faced McDermott. 13 and 14 for Fury were Zack Page ( 21 - 32 - 2 ) and Nascimento ( 13 - 0 - 0 ) Biggs took on Snipes and Bey ( 26 - 5 - 1 and 15 - 4 - 0 ) respectively.

So around we come again to your frankly IDIOTIC statement underlined above.

You are completely WRONG, because he did.
Oldie, you're so stupid I can't believe it... Douglas, who battered MIke Tyson out, was leaps and bounds better than the China chins who Mike ran over.. Not being a good boxer and not having experience or a chin is of no consequence??? Tillis suffered 22 losses.. His 3rd loss he was knocked out by Greg Page... His 4th loss he was knocked out by Witherspoon... His 6th, 7th, and 8th defeats were consecutive losses to Marvis Frazier, Gerrie Coetzee, and Tyrell Biggs... His 9th loss, to MIke Tyson, was his 4th consecutive loss... Tillis was trashed out and those guys were padding the resume.

Fury never lost... He's not an exceptionally gifted or powerful athlete and he has a poor work ethic -- but he's a very clever boxer of great size and length, who can fight southpaw as comfortably as he does orthodox... He certainly carries enough power to keep Klitschko intimidated for 12 rounds.. Let's face it...the only really outstanding prime-time natural Heavyweights Mike Tyson ever fought were Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis -- who all flattened the little tyke.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by elmersalsa »

Kalan wrote:
golden oldie wrote:
Kalan wrote:
You're the dumbest person on the planet.. Tucker did well with Tyson, and convinced Douglas he could beat Mike easy... Douglas beat the living crap out of Tyson and stopped him... Biggs was a greenhorn with 15 fights... Thomas was a drug addict.. What's so damned hard to understand about those 4 fights??? ... They don't prove Mike could beat 6'9" X 250 Fury, who had a better jab and defensive skills than any of those guys.
You can waffle on all you like about individual fighters problems or experience. It is of no consequence at all. In his 16th fight Fury faced Firtha, Biggs faced Tyson. In his 8th fight Biggs faced Quick Tillis, Fury faced McDermott. 13 and 14 for Fury were Zack Page ( 21 - 32 - 2 ) and Nascimento ( 13 - 0 - 0 ) Biggs took on Snipes and Bey ( 26 - 5 - 1 and 15 - 4 - 0 ) respectively.

So around we come again to your frankly IDIOTIC statement underlined above.

You are completely WRONG, because he did.
Oldie, you're so stupid I can't believe it... Douglas, who battered MIke Tyson out, was leaps and bounds better than the China chins who Mike ran over.. Not being a good boxer and not having experience or a chin is of no consequence??? Tillis suffered 22 losses.. His 3rd loss he was knocked out by Greg Page... His 4th loss he was knocked out by Witherspoon... His 6th, 7th, and 8th defeats were consecutive losses to Marvis Frazier, Gerrie Coetzee, and Tyrell Biggs... His 9th loss, to MIke Tyson, was his 4th consecutive loss... Tillis was trashed out and those guys were padding the resume.

Fury never lost... He's not an exceptionally gifted or powerful athlete and he has a poor work ethic -- but he's a very clever boxer of great size and length, who can fight southpaw as comfortably as he does orthodox... He certainly carries enough power to keep Klitschko intimidated for 12 rounds.. Let's face it...the only really outstanding prime-time natural Heavyweights Mike Tyson ever fought were Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis -- who all flattened the little tyke.
That doesn't translates that Tyson Fury beats Iron Mike. Lennox Lewis caught Tyson washed up. Only Buster Douglas and The Real Deal are the only guys that truly beat Tyson at close to his very best. I can't see Fury doing that.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

Yeah...well I can. Mike was very beatable -- as those 3 gentlemen proved... They didn't just beat Mike - they abused him, dominated him, and stopped him.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

Oldie, why don't you post Robinson's title fight record since you're so enamored with it jackass... I posted his MIddleweight Title Fight record because the tread talked about Robinson going against a Heavyweight... Only an idiot like you would think he'd prevail against Patterson.

And Tyson never fought anyone close to as tall as Fury. A 6'4" X 231 slacker beat Tyson's ass thoroughly before knocking him out... Of course a Crusierweight also beat the turds out of Tyson and stopped him... Mike Tyson was knocked out 5 times... Fury was never beaten by anyone.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by elmersalsa »

Kalan wrote:Yeah...well I can. Mike was very beatable -- as those 3 gentlemen proved... They didn't just beat Mike - they abused him, dominated him, and stopped him.
Not against the Mike Tyson of the 80s
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Controversial »

Fury is getting way too much credit for one fight. Yes he beat Klitschko but that was more due to Klitschko's lack of punching back and being totally bemused by the way Fury fought. Fury is big but has poor power and has shown poor conditioning in a lot of fights. He was also luck to get the nod over McDermott in their first fight, McDermott a fighter previously KO'd in one round. Mike could take a helluva punch, even on his worst day (vs. Douglas) he soaked up big punches for 10 rounds before dropping so no way Fury had the power to keep Mike off him. The Mike of 1988 vs Fury of 2015 would last about three rounds with Fury being counted out.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Rexob wrote:
Tomasino wrote:
ginty wrote:There's a piece in this years boxing news annual and it has champs from 1991 vs today's no1 and they picked fury to beat holyfield

My God 1991 Holyfield would have destroyed Tyson.

Might be a bit closer than you think.
It would be close if they fought now.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BitPlayer »

golden oldie wrote:
Kalan wrote:Oldie, why don't you post Robinson's title fight record since you're so enamored with it jackass... I posted his MIddleweight Title Fight record because the tread talked about Robinson going against a Heavyweight... Only an idiot like you would think he'd prevail against Patterson.

And Tyson never fought anyone close to as tall as Fury. A 6'4" X 231 slacker beat Tyson's ass thoroughly before knocking him out... Of course a Crusierweight also beat the turds out of Tyson and stopped him... Mike Tyson was knocked out 5 times... Fury was never beaten by anyone.
Now you see why I believe that perhaps your mother is in fact your sister. Only someone inbred could have the reading skills of a retard. At NO TIME did I claim Robinson would beat Patterson in 1958. I said by 1958 SRR was too OLD to be competitive with even a small Heavy like Patterson. In fact I merely agreed with thew poster who wrote Patterson would be too big, too strong and TOO YOUNG in 58

I DID however state categorically that Patterson NEVER possessed the skills of a prime Robinson. But don't let a little thing like that stop you spewing out yet more garbage from your retarded perspective on life.

You can argue with the FACTS and STATS all you like,. it will make not a jot of difference. Tyson DID beat guys with at least 7 inches on him in height, and at least 6 inches on him in reach. The fact you either don't like that, or are in denial of it is like you. Irrelevant.

It would be complimenting you to label you a troll, they have far more intelligence, as do amoebas.
So because he can overcome 7 inches in height and 6 in reach he can overcome 11 inches in height, 14 inches in reach and atleast 20Ibs?

Flatout terrible argument.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Lol, fury bends over at his waist and sticks his chin out. No way he lasts 3 rounds with Tyson or holyfield.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BitPlayer »

Controversial wrote:Fury is getting way too much credit for one fight. Yes he beat Klitschko but that was more due to Klitschko's lack of punching back and being totally bemused by the way Fury fought. Fury is big but has poor power and has shown poor conditioning in a lot of fights. He was also luck to get the nod over McDermott in their first fight, McDermott a fighter previously KO'd in one round. Mike could take a helluva punch, even on his worst day (vs. Douglas) he soaked up big punches for 10 rounds before dropping so no way Fury had the power to keep Mike off him. The Mike of 1988 vs Fury of 2015 would last about three rounds with Fury being counted out.
Well the McDermott fight is irrelivant because since we're talking Prime Mike, it's only fair to talk about the best Fury. So eh why does Fury need power to keep Mike back, he'd clearly use his excellent movement, and when he did finally get close he'd tie him up and lean all over him.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Lol, fury bends over at his waist and sticks his chin out. No way he lasts 3 rounds with Tyson or holyfield.
How about "Buster Douglas got KO'd by David Bey, Mike White, Tony Tucker, Evander Holyfield, and Lou Saverese... NO WAY he goes 3 with Tyson"

I don't care what Fury did with his waist and chin, he got hit far less than Tyson---who got riddled with jabs, hooks, rights, uppercuts, everything. Mike was so short and stubby that Buster Douglas literally beat him from ring post to ring post while KTFO of him ... Big Man beats little teeny man.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BoxBuzz »

Kalan wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Lol, fury bends over at his waist and sticks his chin out. No way he lasts 3 rounds with Tyson or holyfield.
How about "Buster Douglas got KO'd by David Bey, Mike White, Tony Tucker, Evander Holyfield, and Lou Saverese... NO WAY he goes 3 with Tyson"

I don't care what Fury did with his waist and chin, he got hit far less than Tyson---who got riddled with jabs, hooks, rights, uppercuts, everything. Mike was so short and stubby that Buster Douglas literally beat him from ring post to ring post while KTFO of him ... Big Man beats little teeny man.

Kalan, do you have any idea, just how inconsistent you are with your arguments? You seemingly have no underpinnings, no "true north" or foundational reasoning. You just tap the keys and release the letters, and they just seem to take off on their own. And on occasion they hit the mark.

This may not be one of those moments.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by Kalan »

You're full of crap as usual BuzzBox... The rule is "good" big man beats "good" little man... Tyson Fury was a good Heavyweight... and capable of beating a much smaller and shorter good Heavyweight in the same way Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis did it -- with little effort... I've always been consistent on this and you've always been equivocal and all over the map – such as in the Valero-Armstrong comparison when you never actually studied the fight footage like you remonstrated you would.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BoxBuzz »

Well, that is one recurring theme in your diatribe, I'll grant you that.

Though you've been known to make exceptions.

But Buster was surely not one of the biggest opponents Mike faced was he?

And I'm not sure Tyson looked that "teeny" to most of his opponents who often found themselves staring up at him, upon awakening.

I've watched the Armstrong films, and I see your error in judgment when it comes to a guy who had a pretty good ability to work inside his opponents most dangerous distance. Doesn't always work, but it's not the worst approach. Or do you think it is the worst approach?

Your vigilant and vigorous championing of Valero is a hoot. But it's what makes you stand out in a crowd. I appreciate diversity in every way. So don't ever change.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Valero was smashed to the canvas by the feather fisted mosquera and Valero was a quitter. Greg Haugen would have smashed Edwin.
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Re: Tyson vs Tyson

Post by BoxBuzz »

Haugen, Ward, Gatti, Valero.


To my way of thinkin' these guys are all in the running against each other. But none are elite.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't make for good entertaining matchups.

It wouldn't be a complete surprise to me to see Valero on the short end of all of those matchups.
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