BoxRec

I think people tend to be too absolutist when talking about the UFC's pay structure. It's always "the fighters are getting exploited" or "the fighters get what they're worth, no more no less".

For top level guys like McGregor or GSP, you could make the argument they're underpaid. Nobody is making anything close to the $40m/fight that Mayweather made. They are probably topping out around $5m even when headlining a card that does over a million buys.

That said, all the way down the card, fighters make pretty decent money now. If you look at the payouts from the recent card Faber fought on in Sacramento, the lowest paid fighter on the entire card made $14,500. You had guys who I wouldn't even call fringe contenders making $50-60k. Meanwhile in boxing I remember guys like Glen Johnson making $12k to fight on ESPN2. I would argue that for fringe contenders and B/C-level guys who aren't good enough to headline cards, the UFC is a pretty good deal.

From a UK point of view it seems clear that the UFC is far, far better at promoting it's events than boxing promoters over there so it's no surprise that they do better PPV sales in the US. However, as others have pointed out, the UFC is not as popular globally as boxing. I'd say there are at least 6 or 7 British boxers that would get recognised here more than Bisping and that's probably a very conservative estimate. I did see an interview with Dana though in which he spoke about going into the Russian and Asian markets, so it will be interesting to see if they can pull that off.

Impractical Poster wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: UFC 200 did not feature Rousey or McGregor and did significant numbers. Nunes is pretty much a star now. The stars will continue to emerge as others fall out. It's pretty consistent with the UFC. And the PPVs are becoming much more consistent than boxing within the past couple years. Boxing needs to do something to turn this around.

It does...but it often is overlooked that boxing is still HUGE outside of US. Especially in Conor's own home country. Boxing is rising in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia. I agree UFC still bigger and is run better but to think that boxing stars can't hold their own internationally is mostly and American view.

I never said they can't. I was defending the UFC's success w/o Conor and Rousey. And that Conor is really not inactive. Rousey may not be done yet either. And there are other stars emerging.

Rousey will always be a seller but will never be as big as she once was if she continues. Unlike Brock Lesnar, she doesn't have a fanbase outside of UFC.

lazboy wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

lazboy wrote:
I appreciate UFC's not going to die without them and there are rising starts, (who I personally don't know) but boxing has the bigger names that are active right now and names that are building in popularity (those I mentioned).

Conor is a bigger name than any active boxer.

Yea just read what I'm saying. Conor's off for 8 months or so. It's going to be a slow 8 months for them. Boxing has the bigger names active right now.

Slow as in record breaking? Their regular monthly ppvs beat boxing numbers. It's a much more popular sport.

Impractical Poster wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:Looking at the stats relating to MMA suggests that the growth in relation to PPV sales without McGregor being factored in are fairly limited.

He's a major star, but with Rousey now finished it seems that everything relating to the whole business side of the sport is centered around one man. If you look at the highest PPV buy rates in MMA in the history of the sport, there is a significant gap between 2009/10 (essentially Lesnar selling fights) and the emergence of McGregor. If anything, it looks like the sport hasn't truly grown that significantly when you consider that of the top twenty events it has ever put on, half of them are seven years old or more.

UFC 200 did not feature Rousey or McGregor and did significant numbers. Nunes is pretty much a star now. The stars will continue to emerge as others fall out. It's pretty consistent with the UFC. And the PPVs are becoming much more consistent than boxing within the past couple years. Boxing needs to do something to turn this around.

You're right, no Connor and no Ronda. But it did have arguably the biggest draw in UFC returning after years. BROCK LESNAR!

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

lazboy wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: Conor is a bigger name than any active boxer.

Yea just read what I'm saying. Conor's off for 8 months or so. It's going to be a slow 8 months for them. Boxing has the bigger names active right now.

Slow as in record breaking? Their regular monthly ppvs beat boxing numbers. It's a much more popular sport.

Boxing has big fights and big names emerging. We can add up the total number of views between boxing and UFC after the next 8 months and see who fares better. My moneys on boxing.

lazboy wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

lazboy wrote:
Yea just read what I'm saying. Conor's off for 8 months or so. It's going to be a slow 8 months for them. Boxing has the bigger names active right now.

Slow as in record breaking? Their regular monthly ppvs beat boxing numbers. It's a much more popular sport.

Boxing has big fights and big names emerging. We can add up the total number of views between boxing and UFC after the next 8 months and see who fares better. My moneys on boxing.

Impractical Poster wrote:

lazboy wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Slow as in record breaking? Their regular monthly ppvs beat boxing numbers. It's a much more popular sport.

Boxing has big fights and big names emerging. We can add up the total number of views between boxing and UFC after the next 8 months and see who fares better. My moneys on boxing.

Ronda Rousey, Jon Bones Jones

What I read into this is that there are 3 men in this world (of the last 20+ years) that draw more fans than the sport itself is capable of: Mayweather, Tyson, and McGregor.

thomasjkelley wrote:What I read into this is that there are 3 men in this world (of the last 20+ years) that draw more fans than the sport itself is capable of: Mayweather, Tyson, and McGregor.

... and Brock Lesnar, who will likely make his return to the Octagon in June.

UFC is nothing short of street fighting and as such should be banned. Here is an example, which is quite frequent in Australia. Most recent:-
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... s-paradise
Kids get on the grog or whatever & fancy themselves UFC fighters. Same happens to tram, bus & cab drivers, who are simply there to get them home.

AntonS wrote:UFC is nothing short of street fighting and as such should be banned. Here is an example, which is quite frequent in Australia. Most recent:-
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... s-paradise
Kids get on the grog or whatever & fancy themselves UFC fighters. Same happens to tram, bus & cab drivers, who are simply there to get them home.

First off, are you being serious?

MMA should be banned, yet boxing and every other organized combat sport should stay put? MMA is an organized sport you know... All combat sports have the potential to promote violence, not just MMA. However, I get the feeling you are taking the piss.

Pro & Am boxing has never contributed to street violence as it does now, with introduction with other codes

AntonS wrote:Pro & Am boxing has never contributed to street violence as it does now, with introduction with other codes

Ok, I'll bite. Random violent incidents have happened throughout the history of human existence. What makes this one any different?

lazboy wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

lazboy wrote:
Yea just read what I'm saying. Conor's off for 8 months or so. It's going to be a slow 8 months for them. Boxing has the bigger names active right now.

Slow as in record breaking? Their regular monthly ppvs beat boxing numbers. It's a much more popular sport.

Boxing has big fights and big names emerging. We can add up the total number of views between boxing and UFC after the next 8 months and see who fares better. My moneys on boxing.

The problem with that is boxing can't have PPV types of fight 12 months a year averaging 500 buys. it just can't. Sure views could be more if boxing is on free TV while UFC is primarily PPV but you're missing the amount of MMA on regular TV also which is mostly every weekend. The demise of ESPN weekly boxing was just the beginning. While this currently working for UFC market, fans have grown tired of boxing doing it because of poor cards with a surprising boring main event. I always said beforehand that Mayweather vs Pacquiao was always going to be a boring fight that turns the mainstream off from boxing for a while. And I will say that eventually, UFC will go through the same thing.

IKSRTFO wrote:

lazboy wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Slow as in record breaking? Their regular monthly ppvs beat boxing numbers. It's a much more popular sport.

Boxing has big fights and big names emerging. We can add up the total number of views between boxing and UFC after the next 8 months and see who fares better. My moneys on boxing.

The problem with that is boxing can't have PPV types of fight 12 months a year averaging 500 buys. it just can't. Sure views could be more if boxing is on free TV while UFC is primarily PPV but you're missing the amount of MMA on regular TV also which is mostly every weekend. The demise of ESPN weekly boxing was just the beginning. While this currently working for UFC market, fans have grown tired of boxing doing it because of poor cards with a surprising boring main event. I always said beforehand that Mayweather vs Pacquiao was always going to be a boring fight that turns the mainstream off from boxing for a while. And I will say that eventually, UFC will go through the same thing.

Talking overall views not just ppv and compared to the ufc, not the other mma markets . But as you say, whether the weekly mma fights and a few big fights boost the numbers overall to trump boxing. Well, obviously its more of a gamble to go with boxing given 2016's track record but I have hope that some of the boxing fights already announced will generate numbers, nothing to smash records like the list in the post title mind you, but solid numbers. AJ - WK for example, I would expect very solid numbers, globally.

lazboy wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

lazboy wrote:
Boxing has big fights and big names emerging. We can add up the total number of views between boxing and UFC after the next 8 months and see who fares better. My moneys on boxing.

The problem with that is boxing can't have PPV types of fight 12 months a year averaging 500 buys. it just can't. Sure views could be more if boxing is on free TV while UFC is primarily PPV but you're missing the amount of MMA on regular TV also which is mostly every weekend. The demise of ESPN weekly boxing was just the beginning. While this currently working for UFC market, fans have grown tired of boxing doing it because of poor cards with a surprising boring main event. I always said beforehand that Mayweather vs Pacquiao was always going to be a boring fight that turns the mainstream off from boxing for a while. And I will say that eventually, UFC will go through the same thing.

Talking overall views not just ppv and compared to the ufc, not the other mma markets . But as you say, whether the weekly mma fights and a few big fights boost the numbers overall to trump boxing. Well, obviously its more of a gamble to go with boxing given 2016's track record but I have hope that some of the boxing fights already announced will generate numbers, nothing to smash records like the list in the post title mind you, but solid numbers. AJ - WK for example, I would expect very solid numbers, globally.

Kovalev vs Ward, promoted as two undefeated champs in their primes for the undistputed 175lb title and P4P #1 generated 160K PPV buys. Let that sink in for a minute.

IKSRTFO wrote:

lazboy wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:
The problem with that is boxing can't have PPV types of fight 12 months a year averaging 500 buys. it just can't. Sure views could be more if boxing is on free TV while UFC is primarily PPV but you're missing the amount of MMA on regular TV also which is mostly every weekend. The demise of ESPN weekly boxing was just the beginning. While this currently working for UFC market, fans have grown tired of boxing doing it because of poor cards with a surprising boring main event. I always said beforehand that Mayweather vs Pacquiao was always going to be a boring fight that turns the mainstream off from boxing for a while. And I will say that eventually, UFC will go through the same thing.

Talking overall views not just ppv and compared to the ufc, not the other mma markets . But as you say, whether the weekly mma fights and a few big fights boost the numbers overall to trump boxing. Well, obviously its more of a gamble to go with boxing given 2016's track record but I have hope that some of the boxing fights already announced will generate numbers, nothing to smash records like the list in the post title mind you, but solid numbers. AJ - WK for example, I would expect very solid numbers, globally.

Kovalev vs Ward, promoted as two undefeated champs in their primes for the undistputed 175lb title and P4P #1 generated 160K PPV buys. Let that sink in for a minute.

It's a terrible result for PPV. But remember, bigger names than those are fighting this half of the year. WK-AJ, GGG Jacobs, Canelo- someone, plus these "free to air fights" (depending where you live) Garcia Thurman , Kell Brook someone maybe Kahn or Spence, Pacquia Horn maybe on free to air also, even add into the mix ward kov 2. I'm positive about total viewership. These are solid names. Whether UFC beats it overall, well I don't know, of course thats been the norm and I'm only speculating but I'm hopefull that boxing does well/better.

Who cares? It still ain't Boxing!

I'm sick of these MMA/UFC fundamentalists who seemingly want me to swear allegiance to their cause and admit it's super dooper fantastico and that Boxing is shite in comparison. Nutters.

Boxing is 100x better and no matter how many PPV's are sold watching a mediocre boxer with a ginger beard hit fat wrestlers on the chin will make me change my mind. We live in pathetic, celebrity obsessed, shallow times. Gimmicks and catchphrases are the order of the day. UFC and certain fighters in their organisation fit that absolutely perfectly.

I don't actually mind it and appreciate the skills on show but for me, not a patch on Boxing nor will it ever be.

I imagine every other thread on an MMA forum will be about how much bigger and better than Boxing 'their' sport is. Why the obsession? It's weird.

lillywhite14 wrote:Who cares? It still ain't Boxing!

I'm sick of these MMA/UFC fundamentalists who seemingly want me to swear allegiance to their cause and admit it's super dooper fantastico and that Boxing is shite in comparison. Nutters.

Boxing is 100x better and no matter how many PPV's are sold watching a mediocre boxer with a ginger beard hit fat wrestlers on the chin will make me change my mind. We live in pathetic, celebrity obsessed, shallow times. Gimmicks and catchphrases are the order of the day. UFC and certain fighters in their organisation fit that absolutely perfectly.

I don't actually mind it and appreciate the skills on show but for me, not a patch on Boxing nor will it ever be.

I imagine every other thread on an MMA forum will be about how much bigger and better than Boxing 'their' sport is. Why the obsession? It's weird.

Good post.
To me it's comparing apples to oranges.
2 different sports. Some similarities but that's it.
Boxing will always be number 1 to me

lazboy wrote:
Talking overall views not just ppv and compared to the ufc, not the other mma markets . But as you say, whether the weekly mma fights and a few big fights boost the numbers overall to trump boxing. Well, obviously its more of a gamble to go with boxing given 2016's track record but I have hope that some of the boxing fights already announced will generate numbers, nothing to smash records like the list in the post title mind you, but solid numbers. AJ - WK for example, I would expect very solid numbers, globally.

A little absurd when you think about it. To make things competitive, you are taking into account views for all boxing across the spectrum against only one MMA organization. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

tiny_acres wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Who cares? It still ain't Boxing!

I'm sick of these MMA/UFC fundamentalists who seemingly want me to swear allegiance to their cause and admit it's super dooper fantastico and that Boxing is shite in comparison. Nutters.

Boxing is 100x better and no matter how many PPV's are sold watching a mediocre boxer with a ginger beard hit fat wrestlers on the chin will make me change my mind. We live in pathetic, celebrity obsessed, shallow times. Gimmicks and catchphrases are the order of the day. UFC and certain fighters in their organisation fit that absolutely perfectly.

I don't actually mind it and appreciate the skills on show but for me, not a patch on Boxing nor will it ever be.

I imagine every other thread on an MMA forum will be about how much bigger and better than Boxing 'their' sport is. Why the obsession? It's weird.

Good post.
To me it's comparing apples to oranges.
2 different sports. Some similarities but that's it.
Boxing will always be number 1 to me

No, it's a one sided, biased post. His stance was ruled out once he stated that boxing was 100x better. Let's look at facts, not opinion.

And on MMA forums, boxing is very rarely talked about as it's not on the radar.

Impractical Poster wrote:

lazboy wrote:
Talking overall views not just ppv and compared to the ufc, not the other mma markets . But as you say, whether the weekly mma fights and a few big fights boost the numbers overall to trump boxing. Well, obviously its more of a gamble to go with boxing given 2016's track record but I have hope that some of the boxing fights already announced will generate numbers, nothing to smash records like the list in the post title mind you, but solid numbers. AJ - WK for example, I would expect very solid numbers, globally.

A little absurd when you think about it. To make things competitive, you are taking into account views for all boxing across the spectrum against only one MMA organization. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

Yea and thats what we are talking about. Boxing vs UFC in the next 8 months. Thats the discussion. If you want to widen the goal posts thats your perogative.

Impractical Poster wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Who cares? It still ain't Boxing!

I'm sick of these MMA/UFC fundamentalists who seemingly want me to swear allegiance to their cause and admit it's super dooper fantastico and that Boxing is shite in comparison. Nutters.

Boxing is 100x better and no matter how many PPV's are sold watching a mediocre boxer with a ginger beard hit fat wrestlers on the chin will make me change my mind. We live in pathetic, celebrity obsessed, shallow times. Gimmicks and catchphrases are the order of the day. UFC and certain fighters in their organisation fit that absolutely perfectly.

I don't actually mind it and appreciate the skills on show but for me, not a patch on Boxing nor will it ever be.

I imagine every other thread on an MMA forum will be about how much bigger and better than Boxing 'their' sport is. Why the obsession? It's weird.

Good post.
To me it's comparing apples to oranges.
2 different sports. Some similarities but that's it.
Boxing will always be number 1 to me

No, it's a one sided, biased post. His stance was ruled out once he stated that boxing was 100x better. Let's look at facts, not opinion.

And on MMA forums, boxing is very rarely talked about as it's not on the radar.

Except for the fact the biggest name in MMA and boxing is Floyd Mayweather. Let's look at facts not opinions.

lazboy wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

lazboy wrote:
Talking overall views not just ppv and compared to the ufc, not the other mma markets . But as you say, whether the weekly mma fights and a few big fights boost the numbers overall to trump boxing. Well, obviously its more of a gamble to go with boxing given 2016's track record but I have hope that some of the boxing fights already announced will generate numbers, nothing to smash records like the list in the post title mind you, but solid numbers. AJ - WK for example, I would expect very solid numbers, globally.

A little absurd when you think about it. To make things competitive, you are taking into account views for all boxing across the spectrum against only one MMA organization. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

Yea and thats what we are talking about. Boxing vs UFC in the next 8 months. Thats the discussion. If you want to widen the goal posts thats your perogative.

How are you going to monitor viewing numbers for all boxing events? They happen everyday all over the world and are being televised somewhere by some network. Are you going to limit it to HBO/Showtime/PPV? How do you plan on getting accurate viewing numbers?