BoxRec

Guess I need to add this to this thread as well:
Editors Note - When Leonard beat Hagler, Nunn had never beaten a ranked fighter and was barely ranked himself. It would be very difficult to find a human being who was talking about a Leonard-Nunn fight at the time.
McCallum was still a Jr. Middleweight when Leonard and Leonard fought. There was little talk of a McCallum-Leonard fight. When McCallum fought his first fight at middleweight, he lost to Sumbu Kalambay.
As for Julian Jackson, he didn't win a version of the middleweight title for more than three years after Hagler-Leonard.

Hell no. Cant believe anyone even thinks the Canelo fight controversial. Canelo boxed his ears off. The only thing that kept GGG in the fight was the obvious size difference. The guy never fought anyone in any of his paper defenses and then fails in his first test.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Editors Note - When Leonard beat Hagler, Nunn had never beaten a ranked fighter and was barely ranked himself. It would be very difficult to find a human being who was talking about a Leonard-Nunn fight at the time. McCallum was still a Jr. Middleweight when Leonard and Leonard fought. There was little talk of a McCallum-Leonard fight. When McCallum fought his first fight at middleweight, he lost to Sumbu Kalambay. As for Julian Jackson, he didn't win a version of the middleweight title for more than three years after Hagler-Leonard.

Michael Nunn was undefeated in over 20 fights and was highly ranked... Different entities rank totally different Middleweights according to their politics..

Leonard’s FIRST fight after beating Hagler came against Donny LaLonde in a dubious fight where Lalonde was forced to come down in weight... Michael Nunn knocked out Frank Tate to become the IBF World Middleweight Champion several months before Leonard took on LaLonde... Leonard campaigned at 160 through 1989 -- in the guise of a Super Middleweight to avoid the top Middleweights… During that time frame Michael Nunn knocked out Sumbu Kalambay, Juan Roldan, and Frank Tate. He also beat Iran Barkley over the distance while issuing numerous challenges to Leonard... There was a lot of talk about Nunn fighting Leonard so you're apparently deaf... But Leonard was NOT interested in absorbing a tremendous shiitkicking from Nunn.

And what you’re saying about Mike McCallum is complete bunk... Mike fought at Middleweight off and on from 1985... He would transition between 160 and 154.. He was in the spotlight for his spectacular KO wins over Julian Jackson (who later won a World Middleweight Title) Don Curry, and Milton McCory. Leonard had been inactive for years and never fought at 160 before he got his Middleweight Title shot at Hagler.

McCallum was top ranked when he was beaten by WBA World Middleweight Champion Sumbu Kalambay 8 months before Leonard made his 1st start after Hagler, but McCallum was robbed in Italy... He beat Kalambay in their rematch which you neglect to mention... McCallum also beat Harol Graham for the WBA World Middleweight Title while Leonard was still campaigning at 160... I guarantee you SRL would NEVER fight the Body Snatcher.

klompton wrote:Hell no. Cant believe anyone even thinks the Canelo fight controversial. Canelo boxed his ears off. The only thing that kept GGG in the fight was the obvious size difference. The guy never fought anyone in any of his paper defenses and then fails in his first test.

HA!! Nice try... Anyone with eyes knows you're blind... Golovkin out-scored Canelo by 50 punches and carried the fight all the way.

GGG-Canelo will go down as one of the most controversial decisions in Middleweight History.. Right there with the Hagler-Anteufermo draw.

McCallum would have never fought hagler. That's why he waited until Marvin retired to move up.

McCallum would fight ANYBODY... He gave Hell to Hagler to his face for ducking him... "RESPECT??? How the Hell can you say you respected me when you didn't fight me? Why did you never fight me Marvin? This sport we're in is called Boxing. We make money by fighting each other. Why did you never fight me?"

Check it out..., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMOqDLVFuk

McCallum even fought James Toney at his peak for the Middleweight Title when he was 35 years old... They called that a draw and robbed Mike again... Marvin Hagler did the commentary for that fight. But Toney was the only big name Middleweight who would step into a ring with the Body Snatcher.

Mike never wanted anything to do with Marvin.

Kalan wrote:McCallum would fight ANYBODY... He gave Hell to Hagler to his face for ducking him... "RESPECT??? How the Hell can you say you respected me when you didn't fight me? Why did you never fight me Marvin? This sport we're in is called Boxing. We make money by fighting each other. Why did you never fight me?"

Check it out..., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMOqDLVFuk

McCallum even fought James Toney at his peak for the Middleweight Title when he was 35 years old... They called that a draw and robbed Mike again... Marvin Hagler did the commentary for that fight. But Toney was the only big name Middleweight who would step into a ring with the Body Snatcher.

Like 2 seconds into that Youtube clip I could tell it was completely meaningless.

Mike was good, I think he would fare well against Tommy, I think Marvin would have beaten him....and I think the fight with Toney was fairly judged.

on another subject...

I'm having trouble with the odd inability for some of us to give full credit to current boxers. I'm older than almost all of you, and I really try NOT to let ERA influence me.

And I recognize that on occasion it does. And I'm trying to be more thoughtful on the subject.

It seems to me GGG has done all he can to prove his greatness. Interestingly there is at least one credible voice here that actually thinks Canelo won the fight (Klompton)

I'm going to watch it again in an attempt to recognize what Klompton and the goofy judge saw. (Uno...the 118'er.) My guess is that what she "saw" was cash in an envelope. lol

I saw GGG a clear 2 round winner at a minimum.

But it's always odd when the last rounds are the ones that the "loser" (in this case Canelo) won. Most agree that Canelo was winning toward the end....which begs the question....was he figuring GGG out?

If so, does he have the keys to win the next go round?





I think those are good questions.

gilgamesh wrote:

Kalan wrote:McCallum would fight ANYBODY... He gave Hell to Hagler to his face for ducking him... "RESPECT??? How the Hell can you say you respected me when you didn't fight me? Why did you never fight me Marvin? This sport we're in is called Boxing. We make money by fighting each other. Why did you never fight me?"

Check it out..., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMOqDLVFuk

McCallum even fought James Toney at his peak for the Middleweight Title when he was 35 years old... They called that a draw and robbed Mike again... Marvin Hagler did the commentary for that fight. But Toney was the only big name Middleweight who would step into a ring with the Body Snatcher.

Like 2 seconds into that Youtube clip I could tell it was completely meaningless.

Anybody would sound frustrated if they didn't get fights they deserved and the biggest, most important boxers of their generation refused to fight them, but got upset or knocked out by fighters who weren't the best, and get excused for it. McCallum never got the chance to cash in and that hurts.

Yes. Golovkin versus Monzon, Hagler or Hopkins would all be scores of 7-5, 6-6 or 5-7... I think they would likely edge him out but that's a different story. He's in that class.

Spinks and then Leonard took on bigger greats using the strategy Jacobs and Alvarez tried to utilise... Come in behind a fusillade for 20-30 seconds... Spend 2 minutes concentrating on defence with a cameo or two... Engage for the final 20-30 seconds...

This tactic will beat Golovkin very soon.

Hearns and Mugabi went toe-to-toe and were stopped.

Hagler a better boxer and would beat ggg on pts. Hearns wouldn't tho. Sooner or later ggg would find him and stop him.

The jab beat Canelo... Triple-G beats Hagler all day with his jab... He's too big, strong, and quick for him... Leonard tattooed Hagler but had no power

Very difficult for an orthodoxed fighter to beat a southpaw with a jab, especially when that southpaw has a better jab than you do and is much quicker of hand and foot.

For ability to withstand punishment, they're about equal. I'd give Golovkin the nod for one punch power, and while his jab might come faster and harder, Hagler made much better use of his. Marvelous Marvin also has the better footwork, stamina, and is a better combination puncher. I think this would be a close fight till about the final third when Hagler begins to clearly outland Golovkin.

I don't think GGG's jab is necessarily faster and harder than the telescopic-armed razor that slashed the likes of Sibson and Minter to pieces

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Very difficult for an orthodoxed fighter to beat a southpaw with a jab, especially when that southpaw has a better jab than you do and is much quicker of hand and foot.

You're kidding... Ray Leonard boxed rings around Hagler -- but couldn't do crap with the speedy Terry Norris when he was only 34???? ... Hagler was only 32 and Golovkin is 35...having fought 387 amateur and professional fights and defending the Middleweight Title successfully 19 times...and going undefeated as a pro... Hagler was beaten 3 times... But Hagler would have beaten the crap out of Sugar Ray Robinson who went 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Very difficult for an orthodoxed fighter to beat a southpaw with a jab, especially when that southpaw has a better jab than you do and is much quicker of hand and foot.

Indeed. At least for those with eyes to see it.

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Very difficult for an orthodoxed fighter to beat a southpaw with a jab, especially when that southpaw has a better jab than you do and is much quicker of hand and foot.

Indeed. At least for those with eyes to see it.

Hagler was once knocked out cold by a jab in an Italian movie. Seriously, kalan told me so.

I don't know how anyone can look at peak hagler with the speed and footwork and slashing southpaw jab and think a slower-footed orthodox fighter with about 3" less reach could outjab him *oh but Leonard, but but but' HOW THE FVXK DOES LEONARD-HAGLER TELL ANY SANE BEING HOW A GGG-HAGLER FIGHT WOULD GO, uh, athletic virtuouso who throws quick handed flurries and on the other hand uh, Golovkin. Fvcking retarded logic

Counter-puncher wrote:I don't know how anyone can look at peak hagler with the speed and footwork and slashing southpaw jab and think a slower-footed orthodox fighter with about 3" less reach could outjab him *oh but Leonard, but but but' HOW THE FVXK DOES LEONARD-HAGLER TELL ANY SANE BEING HOW A GGG-HAGLER FIGHT WOULD GO, uh, athletic virtuouso who throws quick handed flurries and on the other hand uh, Golovkin. Fvcking retarded logic

He's an idiot. He, buzz and Goldie oldie. Aka, buzz X3 have butchered this forum to pieces. Hagler was the consummate boxer/puncher.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:I don't know how anyone can look at peak hagler with the speed and footwork and slashing southpaw jab and think a slower-footed orthodox fighter with about 3" less reach could outjab him *oh but Leonard, but but but' HOW THE FVXK DOES LEONARD-HAGLER TELL ANY SANE BEING HOW A GGG-HAGLER FIGHT WOULD GO, uh, athletic virtuouso who throws quick handed flurries and on the other hand uh, Golovkin. Fvcking retarded logic

He's an idiot. He, buzz and Goldie oldie. Aka, buzz X3 have butchered this forum to pieces. Hagler was the consummate boxer/puncher.

I'm just waiting for broughton logic wreckage to weigh in with some counter-intuitive barely comprehensible
Revisionist theory with various obscure semi-insulting phrases regarding panties in a bunch

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:I don't know how anyone can look at peak hagler with the speed and footwork and slashing southpaw jab and think a slower-footed orthodox fighter with about 3" less reach could outjab him *oh but Leonard, but but but' HOW THE FVXK DOES LEONARD-HAGLER TELL ANY SANE BEING HOW A GGG-HAGLER FIGHT WOULD GO, uh, athletic virtuouso who throws quick handed flurries and on the other hand uh, Golovkin. Fvcking retarded logic

He's an idiot. He, buzz and Goldie oldie. Aka, buzz X3 have butchered this forum to pieces. Hagler was the consummate boxer/puncher.

I'm just waiting for broughton logic wreckage to weigh in with some counter-intuitive barely comprehensible
Revisionist theory with various obscure semi-insulting phrases regarding panties in a bunch

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Very difficult for an orthodoxed fighter to beat a southpaw with a jab, especially when that southpaw has a better jab than you do and is much quicker of hand and foot.

Indeed. At least for those with eyes to see it.

Not so difficult if a WELTERWEIGHT who hasn't fought in 3 years---and was beaten by a Lightweight---whips your butt. What did Terry Norris do for SRL?

Hagler was noted more for his toughness (floored only once). His ability to walk through and absorb punches, but certainly not his jab... If Hagler met somebody like a prime James Toney.. Michael Nunn.. Mike McCallum.. Roy Jones.. Bernard Hopkins.. or Gennady Golovkin.. he would have gotten trashed with the jab.. And so would soft little roly-poly slacker Duran -- who got jabs and straight rights on little Hag.. The Marvelous one was WAY overrated as a pure boxer..

He'd beat Robinson though -- because he could trade better than Ralph Jones who had no problems with SRR -- who turned down every offer of a rematch

Hagler wasn't noted for his jab, Kaplan?

Yoi didn't watch the Minter fight closely enough when he tore Minters eyebrow off with it.

Nor did you watch the Sibson fight carefully enough, when he diced Sibson up with the jab, he bounced double and triple jabs off Sibsons head like it was a speedball

He dominated long stretches of the Mugabi fight with his jab.

Either you've hardly seen any Hagler fights or you're too dumb to see what any fool could have seen from watching them. You just spout the same tired tripe over and over like a broken fvcking record, you're a terrible self-parody