BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:45 Adrien Broner didn't "dare himself to be great". He was practically handed his titles on a silver plate as he was always matched against the weakest titleholder available when moving up. So he's already moved up once.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:59

Kalan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:56 A-Hole Vivek says.., "MAJOR PROPS to Lomachenko. We knew he was a stud, he performed like one. I had Rigo winning the fight coming in" .... No SHITT!!! Who'd you expect Vivek to pick between an American and Eastern European???

"1. Lomachenko won his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal as a 132lber, and has walked around in the 145 range since before that time." ... That is total Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass.

"We are celebrating what we viewed as his "greatest pro accomplishment". That "accomplishment" was a victory over a fighter who has never fought above 122lbs, and never walked around above 130lbs (approx)." MORE Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass

"I personally think skills CAN (not always but CAN) overcome size, but what bothers me here is that many of you who are relishing in his victory are downplaying a greater size difference than the one you said was at fault when Lomachenko was defeated by Orlando Salido" .... Vivek has GOT to mention the Orlando Salido robbery doesn't he??? That's mandaory... Every fair minded person knows Lomachenko won that fight.

"Ward couldn't get Golovkin to make the same 8 pound jump that Rigondeaux did in an effort to dare himself to be great" .... Golovkin tried 4 times to get fights at 168 so he could acclimate to the weight and build up the Ward fight.. Which his trainer Abel Sanchez advised him to do.. Each time he had an opponent set up the Boxing Establishment squashed the fight... Ward effectively had three (3) warm up fights at Light Heavyweight to get ready for Kovalev.

"To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than. That's pure garbage" .... it's pure garbage whenever an Easter European wins.. That's his whole deal, HATE!!! ....

" I commend Rigo for taking the fight." .... Right, commend him for taking the fight and predict he'll win easily... but then call the fight pure garbage after his loses very badly.

"Adrien Broner isn't HALF the talent of these two men" .... Right. A great talent when Vivek predicted he would beat Maidana, Porter, and Mikey.. But now he's a no talent ....

"If you can't post an example of these two men going up to test themselves, stop talking....because you aren't saying a damn thing! Period...

You're not saying anything Vivek... Just excuses, lies, and bullcrap whenever the Americans you pick lose badly.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 02:01 I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

Kalan wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 03:45Why don't you just shut up if you can't read... Vivek doesn't deal in fact... He deals in lies, propaganda, and bullcrap!!! He's one of the most biased individuals in the world.

Kalan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:56You're not saying anything Vivek... Just excuses, lies, and bullcrap whenever the Americans you pick lose badly.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 02:07

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:45 Adrien Broner didn't "dare himself to be great". He was practically handed his titles on a silver plate as he was always matched against the weakest titleholder available when moving up. So he's already moved up once.

Not fair.
Broner fought Maidana (2013 version), Porter (2015 version), and Granados (2017 version).
Most welterweights wouldn't fight those guys at the time.
Only Paulie could be considered a cherry-pick, but a 135 pounder isn't bothering Malinaggi much.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:45Also...in case the person who wrote that rant isn't already aware. Lomachenko is a 2 weight World Champion already. So he's already moved up once.

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:02 ..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 02:01 I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:02 ..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obvious worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:57

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:02 ..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obvious worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 12:45

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:57

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25
Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obvious worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.

For sure, Vasyl is a fantastic boxer and he almost certainly would have beaten all of his opponents regardless of any size advantage he may have held.

That being said, I just think that Vivek was merely pointing out the double-standards employed by Lomachenko’s fans, whereby Salido’s “size” advantage was deemed “unfair” and “outrageous”, but the one the Ukraine held over Rigondeaux was perfectly “fair” and that his victory was deemed to be a “fantastic” achievement.

Ricky_ wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 12:48

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 12:45

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:57

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..


..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..


my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that


I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.

For sure, Vasyl is a fantastic boxer and he almost certainly would have beaten all of his opponents regardless of any size advantage he may have held.

That being said, I just think that Vivek was merely pointing out the double-standards employed by Lomachenko’s fans, whereby Salido’s “size” advantage was deemed “unfair” and “outrageous”, but the one the Ukraine held over Rigondeaux was perfectly “fair” and that his victory was deemed to be a “fantastic” achievement.

Maybe because Lomachenko made weight vs Rigo & Salido didn't, dumbass.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 05:31
Whilst I appreciate that Vivek’s commentary about the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux bout is likely to be considered highly provocative in nature .... an awful lot of the points he articulated were factually-correct

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25

greg wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:02 ..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

Lomachenko's ring weight for the Russell bout was 138lbs, where the fight was competed at the 126lbs featherweight limit. I know that Rigondeaux's ring weight for the Roberto Marroquin fight was only 128lbs, when competing in his natural 122lbs super bantamweight habitat.

The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obviously worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs from 2010).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 17:11 Was size the major fact in the fight? No. Did it impact on Rico's psychology going in there? More than likely. Should there be a caveat over Loma' s win? Certainly. Is lomachenko a very special fighter? Without doubt.

There are nuances. Lomachenko like all great fighters needs a dance partner. It may be he needs to go to 135 before we find one. He has incredible skills, absolutely without question, but fights are about styles, and sometimes a fighter with great skills is overcome by someone who seems crude. French v Nelson springs to mind, even though the result didnt go the right way.

I suspect lomachenko will be retired before he hits 20 fights. He will do great things In that time, but for me longevity is one of they keys to greatness. Not the only one, but one of the pillars along with historical impact, great wins, skill set and other attributes.

jas80s wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 13:41 I think the notion that this victory is being "flamboyantly celebrated" is an overstatement. This fight hardly gets mentioned without some form of "spent his career at 122" being mentioned as well.

There was a lot, and I mean A LOT, of P4P number one and ATG status talk about Loma before this fight happened. Once again, to talk as if there has been a spike in how fans appreciate Loma's abilities off of this fight again seems misplaced to me. Most of what I have read is people echoing Loma's own words that this wasn't his greatest victory.

As for fans having double standards about fighters they favor? What is he some kind of genius for figuring that out? If you want people who are balanced in how they view boxing, they are out there, just ignore the rest. Or read them purely for entertainment value as I do.

jamamb wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 17:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 17:11 Was size the major fact in the fight? No. Did it impact on Rico's psychology going in there? More than likely. Should there be a caveat over Loma' s win? Certainly. Is lomachenko a very special fighter? Without doubt.

There are nuances. Lomachenko like all great fighters needs a dance partner. It may be he needs to go to 135 before we find one. He has incredible skills, absolutely without question, but fights are about styles, and sometimes a fighter with great skills is overcome by someone who seems crude. French v Nelson springs to mind, even though the result didnt go the right way.

I suspect lomachenko will be retired before he hits 20 fights. He will do great things In that time, but for me longevity is one of they keys to greatness. Not the only one, but one of the pillars along with historical impact, great wins, skill set and other attributes.

would you rate loma higher if he first went 20-0 with the usual suspects on the way up, then added the 20ish fights you imagine hell in reality end up with.

Kalan wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 04:01

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 02:01 I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

You don't think any Americans of German decent dropped bombs on Germany??? It was about winning the war, not what race Germans are... What was General Dwight Eisenhower's nationality.??? You don't think Vasyl Lomacheno is white??? ..., He's as white as any Anglo Saxon... He's racially in the same group as Anglo Saxons and NOT in the same racial grouping as African Americans.... It doesn't make any difference to me what race somebody is or isn't... It's all about how good a boxer he is... But a white dude from Montana is the same race as Lomachenko unless you're the dumbest guy on the planet.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25 The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs from 2010).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 12:45 I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.