If Max Baer had trained for the bout against Braddock...

[Kalan]

Braddock also had hand problems throughout his career.

what was wrong with his hands ?
Did he break certain bones in it that never healled properly
or was it ligaments ?

He fought hurt often, never really giving his body a chance to heal. He broke the bones in his hands multiple times. Plus throw in car wrecks, and broken ribs, etc. Gotta give him that, Braddock was underratedly tough.

Braddock didn't need strong hands... He just needed to keep poking Baer in the face and avoiding his slow-assed swings...

Same thing young Joe Louis did to Baer when Joe was a pro for only 14 months... Louis punched 3 X harder of course.

[HomicideHenry]

Baer was fighting one armed against Louis btw, in case you didn't know. Besides Baer annihilated Schmeling that Braddock completely avoided, and he was a far better boxer than Braddock.

[Kalan]

Bullcrap!!!! .... Braddock was a far better boxer than Baer... He beat him fair and square.

And Baer threw both hand as hard as he could versus Louis... Baer was too inept to reach him with anything... All Baer did was foul Schmeling by grabbing Max around the head with one hand and smashing him with the other hand... Baer got away with murder in that fight and should have been disqualified.

[Jmangho]

Baer was fighting one armed against Louis btw, in case you didn't know. Besides Baer annihilated Schmeling that Braddock completely avoided, and he was a far better boxer than Braddock.

Braddock was a much better boxer then both Baer & Schmeling, he was able to knock Louis down and had him on the ropes for a short time.

He lasted much longer then Baer, despite having 2 years away from boxing, and was still having similar injuries to Baer.

Actually, now that I think about it, if this was the Braddock that fought Louis, if Braddock had no injuries and Baer trained his hardest and tried his hardest against Braddock, I think Braddock still would've won.

The guy is incredibly underrated and the fact that he did as well as he did while injured, says a lot, including the fact that he WAS injured for almost every fight he had.

Baer & Braddock both uninjured would have been a great fight, but Braddock would've come out on top, imo. He just seems... better. He's faster, hits almost as hard, and has a height and reach advantage.

[HomicideHenry]

It depends on what version of Max Baer showed up. I remember during the NCR computer tournament Louis himself said, "He (Baer) could have been the greatest of all of us had he taken it (boxing) more seriously."

Had Frankie Campbell of never died in his match with Baer, and messed with his psyche tremendously who knows how impressive his career would have been. He was never the same after that. Only traces, now and again, would appear like when he demolished Schmeling and Carnera and Galento.

[Ambling Alp II]

Literally every big win in Baer's career was after the Frankie Campbell fight.

Baer was by no means a slick fighter. However, when he was at his best. he was an aggressive, hard punching fighter who was not easy to outbox. Baer was actually a smarter fighter than given credit for.
Braddock would have had a better career under different circumstances. However, he was no slick boxer. If Baer was at this best, he probably had enough to get by Braddock.

[Caractacus]

what about Max Baer's every big loss after the Frankie Campbell fight ?
wasn't the brutal knockout (after the bell rang for the last round)of Ernie Shaaf in August 1932
by Max Baer also bother him after Shaaf died in the ring 6 months later from a punch by Primo Carnera ?
at the press alluded to that I believe.

[Caractacus]

check this article out.

http://www.boxing.com/the_strange_death ... chaaf.html

[Jmangho]

Literally every big win in Baer's career was after the Frankie Campbell fight.

Baer was by no means a slick fighter. However, when he was at his best. he was an aggressive, hard punching fighter who was not easy to outbox. Baer was actually a smarter fighter than given credit for.
Braddock would have had a better career under different circumstances. However, he was no slick boxer. If Baer was at this best, he probably had enough to get by Braddock.

I disagree, I feel like Braddock at his best is just a better boxer then Baer, but for different reasons.

Braddock has fast hands and a good reach, while also having power that is almost as good as Baer in some cases.

He's not the fastest boxer, but he is faster then Baer, even at Baer's best.

[Kalan]

Literally every big win in Baer's career was after the Frankie Campbell fight.

Baer was by no means a slick fighter. However, when he was at his best. he was an aggressive, hard punching fighter who was not easy to outbox. Baer was actually a smarter fighter than given credit for.
Braddock would have had a better career under different circumstances. However, he was no slick boxer. If Baer was at this best, he probably had enough to get by Braddock.

I disagree, I feel like Braddock at his best is just a better boxer then Baer, but for different reasons.

Braddock has fast hands and a good reach, while also having power that is almost as good as Baer in some cases.

He's not the fastest boxer, but he is faster then Baer, even at Baer's best.

I disagree as well... Baer was not a boxer - he was a raw swinger... Baer was contemptuous of boxers cuz he said the fans were there to see a fight not a dance... Braddock said he knew he could outbox Baer and get his jab on him... He planned on not getting into a slugfest with the bigger, stronger man... In fact, the fight was almost devoid of brawling and brutal exchanges of punches in mid ring... Braddock controlled the character of the fight throughout with his jab and quick combinations... Baer got in several heavy right hand swings during the fight, but nothing to trouble Braddock.

Baer slipped jabs as well as George Foreman so Braddock's fight plan worked fairly well -- if not to perfection.. He wasn't a miniature Jimmy Young, but he tried to be as slick as he could... Baer's clowning antics drew very little positive response from the crowd and people soon knew a major upset was in progress.

[Kalan]

It depends on what version of Max Baer showed up. I remember during the NCR computer tournament Louis himself said, "He (Baer) could have been the greatest of all of us had he taken it (boxing) more seriously."

I never heard that comment from Louis -- and I don't see that Louis took Baer as much of a threat or thought much of his skills... He found a ready target for his jab on Baer's face... His whole arsenal of punches ripped Baer non-stop until the hapless Larupper quit on one knee in the 4th round... He was in his mid-20's and didn't want to die young.

Joe Louis was at ringside... Two of his comments were - "I didn't see any right hand from Baer." and "Nobody can tell me these are 2 of the best Heavyweights in the world." .... Normally Louis didn't talk like that.. He was very modest... But a World Champion can afford to be modest... A top contender has to sound like he has no fear of anybody and is ready to rumble.

[HomicideHenry]

Listen to the Baer vs Marciano NCR clips and you'll hear Louis talk highly of Baer.

Dempsey, also, said that the night Baer beat Schmeling that he "could have beaten all of us" and thought that Baer could have been Champion for a long time.

[Ambling Alp II]

Literally every big win in Baer's career was after the Frankie Campbell fight.

Baer was by no means a slick fighter. However, when he was at his best. he was an aggressive, hard punching fighter who was not easy to outbox. Baer was actually a smarter fighter than given credit for.
Braddock would have had a better career under different circumstances. However, he was no slick boxer. If Baer was at this best, he probably had enough to get by Braddock.

I disagree, I feel like Braddock at his best is just a better boxer then Baer, but for different reasons.

Braddock has fast hands and a good reach, while also having power that is almost as good as Baer in some cases.

He's not the fastest boxer, but he is faster then Baer, even at Baer's best.

Braddock had decent hand speed but nothing special. I don't know why you are so impressed with Braddock's power. Outside of a knockdown of Louis, there is not much evidence that he had much power at all. His power was nowhere near the level of Baer.
Braddock did not have a reach advantage. Baer had a bout a 6-inch advantage. Braddock may have been an inch taller at most.
Braddock did not beat Baer by that much in the fight that they did have. That fight was close to Braddock's best and certainly was not one of Baer's.

[HomicideHenry]

Literally every big win in Baer's career was after the Frankie Campbell fight.

Baer was by no means a slick fighter. However, when he was at his best. he was an aggressive, hard punching fighter who was not easy to outbox. Baer was actually a smarter fighter than given credit for.
Braddock would have had a better career under different circumstances. However, he was no slick boxer. If Baer was at this best, he probably had enough to get by Braddock.

I disagree, I feel like Braddock at his best is just a better boxer then Baer, but for different reasons.

Braddock has fast hands and a good reach, while also having power that is almost as good as Baer in some cases.

He's not the fastest boxer, but he is faster then Baer, even at Baer's best.

Braddock had decent hand speed but nothing special. I don't know why you are so impressed with Braddock's power. Outside of a knockdown of Louis, there is not much evidence that he had much power at all. His power was nowhere near the level of Baer.
Braddock did not have a reach advantage. Baer had a bout a 6-inch advantage. Braddock may have been an inch taller at most.
Braddock did not beat Baer by that much in the fight that they did have. That fight was close to Braddock's best and certainly was not one of Baer's.

This post by Alp was spot on.

I like Braddock but the pinnacle of his career was one of the worst moments in Baer's career, which is why sportswriters at the time called it "the greatest upset since Corbett defeated Sullivan," because nobody really thought Braddock had a chance, and even at that the fight was close.

As for Braddock vs Louis, have you forgotten the fact that from round five onward it was all Louis? Or that Braddock literally got a tooth knocked through his mouthpiece and out through his lips and needed 27 stitches on top of all that? Or the fact that Louis had a soft chin for a heavyweight and was dropped by even lesser men than Braddock?

Again, I like Braddock but following his loss to Tommy Loughran he was essentially just a club fighter that was known and respected but little else. Hence why the "Cinderella Man" moniker because for years he wasn't anything.

To a lesser degree Jersey Joe Walcott was in the same mold of circumstances as Braddock, living hand over fist as a full time garbage man and part time fighter often fighting hurt or mismatched because he was too damn good even in that state. Yet he gets trashed on this forum, and Braddock gets praised.

[bwu]

We, and I include myself, have been forgetting one crucial factor; Baer's pre-fight sexual interlude in the locker room! Both Max Baer Jr. and author Jeremy Schaap, among others, indicate that the champ's warm-up routine included a Clintonian event. Even if Baer trained like a monk, that bit of action was going to cost him. Women weaken legs!

[Kalan]

Listen to the Baer vs Marciano NCR clips and you'll hear Louis talk highly of Baer.

Dempsey, also, said that the night Baer beat Schmeling that he "could have beaten all of us" and thought that Baer could have been Champion for a long time.

Naturally Louis is going to speak well of Baer... He destroyed him so easily.... Naturally Dempsey is going to speak well of Baer... He was Baer's promoter... Dempsey said Baer was so scared of Louis that he had to threaten Baer to get him into the ring.

Nice things boxers say about each other after their ring careers are over -- you have to take with a grain of salt.

[Kalan]

We, and I include myself, have been forgetting one crucial factor; Baer's pre-fight sexual interlude in the locker room! Both Max Baer Jr. and author Jeremy Schaap, among others, indicate that the champ's warm-up routine included a Clintonian event. Even if Baer trained like a monk, that bit of action was going to cost him. Women weaken legs!

The excuses come fast and furious... The truth is Baer was not a good boxer... He didn't work hard to master the sport.

Guys like Johnson, Tunney, Louis, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, The Klitschkos, and Joshua all worked their asses off trying to be the best in the world.... Baer never did that.

[bwu]

We, and I include myself, have been forgetting one crucial factor; Baer's pre-fight sexual interlude in the locker room! Both Max Baer Jr. and author Jeremy Schaap, among others, indicate that the champ's warm-up routine included a Clintonian event. Even if Baer trained like a monk, that bit of action was going to cost him. Women weaken legs!

The excuses come fast and furious... The truth is Baer was not a good boxer... He didn't work hard to master the sport.

Guys like Johnson, Tunney, Louis, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, The Klitschkos, and Joshua all worked their asses off trying to be the best in the world.... Baer never did that.

It was not offered as an excuse, it was mentioned for a very specific reason. Baer could have trained as diligently as all the champions you mentioned, but when he got the BJ, he lost the fight. The excuses aren't the only things that come fast and furious....

[Kalan]

That's true enough.... Punches to Baer's face sometimes did as well.... Like when Louis threw them.

[HomicideHenry]

That's true enough.... Punches to Baer's face sometimes did as well.... Like when Louis threw them.

I think you grossly overlook Baer's chin. The only time in his career that he ever was dropped was by Louis. Punches otherwise never seemed to affect him at all.

[Kalan]

That's true enough.... Punches to Baer's face sometimes did as well.... Like when Louis threw them.

I think you grossly overlook Baer's chin. The only time in his career that he ever was dropped was by Louis. Punches otherwise never seemed to affect him at all.

Henry, you're a big fan of Baer, and sincere as Hell -- but you don't know WTF you're talking about... Baer was knocked down many times... Nova knocked Baer down a few times so stop talking nonsense and do some minimal research.

What happens at 1:14 of this clip??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxS1xXrRyJE and at 1:42 of this clip???

[HomicideHenry]

I meant up until the time he met Louis, he never was dropped.

[Caractacus]

can you believe Max Baer was only 32 years old in 1941 ?
I thought he would be in his mid-thirties at the very least.
Notice that Max Baer goes to the canvas very similar to the way
he went down in the fight with Joe Louis. as if someone in-side of him pulled a lever to self destruct or something.
( btw what is that little thing that Baer does at 0:22 seconds ? like he relized that he had lost the fight there and then)

[

[Caractacus]

[APerno]

Even if Baer trained like a monk, that bit of action was going to cost him. Women weaken legs!

Wow, what a traditionalist!