BoxRec

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 21:10 Nope athletes in every sport get better with each generation.

People just don't want to admit it with boxing because it means they'll have to take their rose tinted glasses off.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 13:14 My 17-year old son who didn't even make a high school state cut has a 100 backstroke result better than 1952 Olympic winner and winners of all previous Olympics. This has nothing to do with technology but everything to do with better technique and better coaching.

lazboy wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 05:59 I’ve been watching a fair bit of Hagler recently. He had power, speed and volume that would put a lot of fighters around the weight today to shame. Why? Was he the exception?

Not only did he have those physical attributes but he was also more skilled overall - if your list the skill set which I will:

Distance, ring cutting, pressure, outside inside repitoire, dirty boxing, headmovement, chin, mentality. A legend. He would be more than competitive in today’s division(s). If people argue about the weight cutting I’d be confident he would decimate from welterweight to super middle - if he could make welterweight which is arguable.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 07:17

lazboy wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 05:59 I’ve been watching a fair bit of Hagler recently. He had power, speed and volume that would put a lot of fighters around the weight today to shame. Why? Was he the exception?

Not only did he have those physical attributes but he was also more skilled overall - if your list the skill set which I will:

Distance, ring cutting, pressure, outside inside repitoire, dirty boxing, headmovement, chin, mentality. A legend. He would be more than competitive in today’s division(s). If people argue about the weight cutting I’d be confident he would decimate from welterweight to super middle - if he could make welterweight which is arguable.

I agree with the vast majority of your sentiments, but in terms of Hagler’s ability to make the stipulated 147lbs weight limit, I reckon he’d do it with ease.

Let’s not forget that when the Marvellous one competed, the official weigh-ins took place on the day of the fight… and there’s one thing for certain, Hagler made the 160lbs middleweight limit with consummate ease, as per his official weights against the likes of:

• Ray Leonard (158½lbs)
• Roberto Duran (157½lbs)
• Tony Sibson (158¼lbs)
• Fulgencio Obelmejias (158½lbs)
• Caveman Lee (158lbs)
• Mustafa Hamsho (157lbs)

And when you consider that many modern day world-rated welterweights rehydrate to 165lbs or more by the time they enter the ring, due to having more than 24 hours to rehydrate between the official weigh-in and the fight, it would be silly to suggest that a fighter as “small” as Hagler couldn’t have temporarily dropped roughly 10lbs or so to make 147lbs.

Put it this way, a ripped to shreds super lightweight like Terence Crawford rehydrated to 157lbs when he fought Viktor Postol at 140lbs, which is the same “official” weight that Hagler defended his middleweight crown against Roberto Duran and Mustafa Hamsho.

mullenman wrote: ↑12 Jun 2018, 02:45 Boxers are more professional now so they are better. Fitter, stronger etc.. it’s all science and knowledge. Crawford, floyd, loca, at the greatest ever. If Ali tried rope a dope against AJ the people in the first row would be knocked out too...

BitPlayer wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 04:20

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 13:14 My 17-year old son who didn't even make a high school state cut has a 100 backstroke result better than 1952 Olympic winner and winners of all previous Olympics. This has nothing to do with technology but everything to do with better technique and better coaching.

No it has a ton to do with changes in the pools etc. that do things like keeping the water in the pool more stable, and reducing drag,. It's mentioned in the talk

Wales wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 22:15 Due to improved coaching methods, increased participation and the ability to dedicate ourselves to a chosen discipline weve broken records in every measurable sport . We run faster , jump higher and further, throw further , cover greater distances quicker .

Does boxing buck that trend?

Ketchel wrote: ↑16 Jun 2018, 03:16 A 50 year old Bernard Hopkins competing at world level against the cream of the young bucks showed that boxing skill has declined at the top level. George Foreman and Larry Holmes competing against Evander Holyfield showed that the 70s heavyweights would have been too much for the 90s guys. I don't see skill levels rising. Someone on here mentioned fighters fighting the best not happening anymore. There does not appear to be much pride in wanting to be the best today and too many excuses not to aspire to do so. Look at Ali's comeback where he came back at the top level. Vitali Klitschko coming back at the top level. Guys with mental fortitude. Then look at Tyson Fury's comeback. Shameful!

lazboy wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 23:25

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 07:17

lazboy wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 05:59 I’ve been watching a fair bit of Hagler recently. He had power, speed and volume that would put a lot of fighters around the weight today to shame. Why? Was he the exception?

Not only did he have those physical attributes but he was also more skilled overall - if your list the skill set which I will:

Distance, ring cutting, pressure, outside inside repitoire, dirty boxing, headmovement, chin, mentality. A legend. He would be more than competitive in today’s division(s). If people argue about the weight cutting I’d be confident he would decimate from welterweight to super middle - if he could make welterweight which is arguable.

I agree with the vast majority of your sentiments, but in terms of Hagler’s ability to make the stipulated 147lbs weight limit, I reckon he’d do it with ease.

Let’s not forget that when the Marvellous one competed, the official weigh-ins took place on the day of the fight… and there’s one thing for certain, Hagler made the 160lbs middleweight limit with consummate ease, as per his official weights against the likes of:

• Ray Leonard (158½lbs)
• Roberto Duran (157½lbs)
• Tony Sibson (158¼lbs)
• Fulgencio Obelmejias (158½lbs)
• Caveman Lee (158lbs)
• Mustafa Hamsho (157lbs)

And when you consider that many modern day world-rated welterweights rehydrate to 165lbs or more by the time they enter the ring, due to having more than 24 hours to rehydrate between the official weigh-in and the fight, it would be silly to suggest that a fighter as “small” as Hagler couldn’t have temporarily dropped roughly 10lbs or so to make 147lbs.

Put it this way, a ripped to shreds super lightweight like Terence Crawford rehydrated to 157lbs when he fought Viktor Postol at 140lbs, which is the same “official” weight that Hagler defended his middleweight crown against Roberto Duran and Mustafa Hamsho.

Have to agree with you on principle...especially since you’ve done the math. So Hagler could of potentially made welterweight. Today’s boxers are bigger (according to weight class) but the question remains - are they better. If we are comparing Hagler to the welterweights of today I’d still say confidently he was as powerful. Speed would be hard to gauge...but using the eye test...having watched Hagler and the current scene concurrently I’d say he was. Volume I’d say yes also although I haven’t looked at any stats.