BoxRec

I’ve said for years that boxing needs another division between Cruiser and Heavy - the discrepancy in size can be totally absurd at HW.

littlepug wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 06:10

x2x wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 05:36

littlepug wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 04:28
I feel they are necessary but thats just me as for the small Heavies they should be cruisers but the fact they cant be arsed to make the weight and want the bigger bucks is their problem, they moan they cant make it, they should try being bone dry and stuck between divisions down at the little weights.

How discriminatory and unfair to demand that only men whose natural weight happens to be in the low 200's somehow alter their bodies to fit into a lower weight class, while everybody else is meticulously accomodated! For instance, a 168 pound super middleweight won't ever have to fight anyone weighing even six pounds more than him; or a 115 pound super flyweight won't have to fight anyone more than two pounds heavier! But a 210 pound fighter like Seferi gets thrown in with someone weighing almost one third his bodyweight - 66 pounds - heavier. That would be equivalent your super middleweight fighting a 223 pound man!

With dicilpline and a bit of work ethic Seferi could easily stay at cruiser rather than chance it in a division he doesnt belong in, all it does is give proper heavyweights like Fury an easy nights work, fair enough if you want to try and create a bit of history by moving up and trying to pull off what can seem like an impossible task ala Haye/Valuev but its still a bit gimmicky and when Haye went up against a real world class heavy in Klit it was plain to see he didnt belong, want the glamour and big buck of a heavyweight but not born as one ? well tough luck son because theres another 15 divisions below you with boxers wanting the exact same thing, Seferi didnt get thrown in with anyone, it was of his own choosing for the payday he wasnt gonna get at cruiser.

Does anybody know what he did get paid just out of interest?

squiggy wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 00:37

jujigatame wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 22:26 It's true, cruiserweight gets unfairly treated as a 2nd class division. In the UFC, guys like Jon Jones and Chuck Liddell who fought their entire career at LHW (the UFC equivalent to CW) are considered all-time greats. In boxing whenever there's an elite CW talent people just talk about them like their career hasn't truly begun until they move up to HW.

Is there a single boxing HOFer who fought predominantly at CW and never moved up?

I don't know, but for my money, current champion Usyk is the greatest cruiserweight who hasn't moved up. Which is why I wish he'd stick around and rule the division -- he could well put together a better career at the weight than Holyfield did.
Course, Holyfield could've stuck around and ruled it indefinitely... and would up like five percent as rich and famous as he did.

Agree, I want to see Usyk stick around at CW, at least until he's cleaned out the division. I hate that CWs face pressure to move up when they're vastly undersized for HW.

clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 09:25

littlepug wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 06:10

x2x wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 05:36


How discriminatory and unfair to demand that only men whose natural weight happens to be in the low 200's somehow alter their bodies to fit into a lower weight class, while everybody else is meticulously accomodated! For instance, a 168 pound super middleweight won't ever have to fight anyone weighing even six pounds more than him; or a 115 pound super flyweight won't have to fight anyone more than two pounds heavier! But a 210 pound fighter like Seferi gets thrown in with someone weighing almost one third his bodyweight - 66 pounds - heavier. That would be equivalent your super middleweight fighting a 223 pound man!

With dicilpline and a bit of work ethic Seferi could easily stay at cruiser rather than chance it in a division he doesnt belong in, all it does is give proper heavyweights like Fury an easy nights work, fair enough if you want to try and create a bit of history by moving up and trying to pull off what can seem like an impossible task ala Haye/Valuev but its still a bit gimmicky and when Haye went up against a real world class heavy in Klit it was plain to see he didnt belong, want the glamour and big buck of a heavyweight but not born as one ? well tough luck son because theres another 15 divisions below you with boxers wanting the exact same thing, Seferi didnt get thrown in with anyone, it was of his own choosing for the payday he wasnt gonna get at cruiser.

Does anybody know what he did get paid just out of interest?

Dont know mate, mustve been half decent plus more exsposure than he has ever had before.

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 19:15

littlepug wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 19:05

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 18:09 ...and that is that we need *at least* one more heavyweight division! As it is they were both in the same weight division, and what a huge handicap that is for the smaller man! Meanwhile the ridiculous light weight divisions are separated by a mere two or three pounds.

You dont understand the importance those small differences make in the lower divisions, it can literally be the difference between life and death in some cases and all for sod all money.

All those absurd lower weight divisions are just so they can bill more fights as championship fights and put more asses in the seats. The whole antiquated and nonsensical weight division system should revised and redone by percentage increments.

I've heard a great many worse ideas.

As much as it pains me to advocate adding to the proliferation, we do need another division. This should be Super-Cruiserweight. On no account should we devalue 100+ years of Heavyweight history/ achievement by creating a Super-Heavyweight division.

Wales wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 00:49 UFC have a upper weight . Fighters can’t be over 265lbs.

Fighters are clearly getting bigger and heavier over time. And the size and weight difference in the HW division is certainly crazy compared to other divisions

The upper weight limit is stupid. There isn't a single decent HW in history who couldn't make that weight. All the top MMA HWs of all time (Fedor, Nogueria, Werdum, Miocic, Velasquez) are in the 230-250 range.

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 18:38

Wales wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 00:49 UFC have a upper weight . Fighters can’t be over 265lbs.

Fighters are clearly getting bigger and heavier over time. And the size and weight difference in the HW division is certainly crazy compared to other divisions

The upper weight limit is stupid. There isn't a single decent HW in history who couldn't make that weight. All the top MMA HWs of all time (Fedor, Nogueria, Werdum, Miocic, Velasquez) are in the 230-250 range.

This, although Brock would qualify as better than decent and he cut to make 265.

The UFC upper weight limit was done to protect the brand from big fat slobs who were everywhere (with no success) in the early days of MMA, not because of fear of 265+ pound behemoths.

candyslim wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 09:45

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 19:15

littlepug wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 19:05
You dont understand the importance those small differences make in the lower divisions, it can literally be the difference between life and death in some cases and all for sod all money.

All those absurd lower weight divisions are just so they can bill more fights as championship fights and put more asses in the seats. The whole antiquated and nonsensical weight division system should revised and redone by percentage increments.

I've heard a great many worse ideas.

As much as it pains me to advocate adding to the proliferation, we do need another division. This should be Super-Cruiserweight. On no account should we devalue 100+ years of Heavyweight history/ achievement by creating a Super-Heavyweight division.

OK call it what you want, but the way it's set up now makes no sense.

Agreed but the Heavyweight division must remain the flagship even if it bears little relation weightwise to its great champions of the past.

nearly everyone under 220 cuts to cruiserweight. so the smallest heavys are normaly around that mark. wilder, povetkin and bellew are all around that and there all top 5 on boxing rec. i dont think they realy need to change the divisons, people jsut have to train to the divisions that exist. if your 225b either lean up a bit and cut water weight to cruiser or bulk up a bit and weight 235 and not be too small.

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 18:09 ...and that is that we need *at least* one more heavyweight division! As it is they were both in the same weight division, and what a huge handicap that is for the smaller man! Meanwhile the ridiculous light weight divisions are separated by a mere two or three pounds.

It didn't prove any such thing.

Fury is a fat bar steward who should be weighing about 25lbs less than he does & Seferi is a crap cruiserweight.

The night Evander Holyfield became HW champion, he weighed less than Seferi & he marmalised the fat Buster Douglas.

What do you think that 208 lb Holyfield would have done to the 276 lb Fury of Saturday night?

Ability is far more important than unncessary girth.

It's like deja vu all over again (to quote Yogi Berra)

Wilder is a 220lbs fighter, no?

It proved a couple of things.

Fury is even worse now than he used to be. He looked like sh*t.

Seferi showed up for nothing more than a paycheck. Fury kissed him, and he just took it like a pathetic little p*ssy and then quit after 4 rounds in spite of never having been wobbled, and taking only maybe 5 or 6 hurtful punches the whole fight.

I didn't think it was possible, but I somehow hate Tyson Fury even more now after this.

Can't wait to see him fight one of the Heavyweights with a pulse so that he gets the ass kicking he richly deserves. What a piece of human garbage this guy is.

Syntax Error wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 08:03

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 18:09 ...and that is that we need *at least* one more heavyweight division! As it is they were both in the same weight division, and what a huge handicap that is for the smaller man! Meanwhile the ridiculous light weight divisions are separated by a mere two or three pounds.

It didn't prove any such thing.

Fury is a fat bar steward who should be weighing about 25lbs less than he does & Seferi is a crap cruiserweight.

The night Evander Holyfield became HW champion, he weighed less than Seferi & he marmalised the fat Buster Douglas.

What do you think that 208 lb Holyfield would have done to the 276 lb Fury of Saturday night?

Ability is far more important than unncessary girth.

He would've beaten the piss out of him because he's a fighter not a coward.

x2x wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 23:02

candyslim wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 09:45

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 19:15


All those absurd lower weight divisions are just so they can bill more fights as championship fights and put more asses in the seats. The whole antiquated and nonsensical weight division system should revised and redone by percentage increments.

I've heard a great many worse ideas.

As much as it pains me to advocate adding to the proliferation, we do need another division. This should be Super-Cruiserweight. On no account should we devalue 100+ years of Heavyweight history/ achievement by creating a Super-Heavyweight division.

OK call it what you want, but the way it's set up now makes no sense.

Heavyweight Champions of the past weighed under 200 pounds and beat men that weighed in excess of 240 or 250 pounds sometimes.

Calling for another weight class is calling for the ruination of the sport.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 06:26 I’ve said for years that boxing needs another division between Cruiser and Heavy - the discrepancy in size can be totally absurd at HW.

This suggestion can go straight to hell. Boxing needs 7 less weight classes. Not 1 more.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 16:59

x2x wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 23:02

candyslim wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 09:45

I've heard a great many worse ideas.

As much as it pains me to advocate adding to the proliferation, we do need another division. This should be Super-Cruiserweight. On no account should we devalue 100+ years of Heavyweight history/ achievement by creating a Super-Heavyweight division.

OK call it what you want, but the way it's set up now makes no sense.

Heavyweight Champions of the past weighed under 200 pounds and beat men that weighed in excess of 240 or 250 pounds sometimes.

Calling for another weight class is calling for the ruination of the sport.

Yes Dempsey beat Willard but Willard and Carnera were champions because they were huge for those days not because they were good. There's a world of difference between pounding on some great uncoordinated lummox and trying to tackle a 6' 6" fighting machine like Joshua.

What's another division on top of all the others? If it bothers you x2x's suggestion of of redistributing the weight classes using percentage increments, could actually reduce the number.

Yup ...

200 ~> 225 = Heavyweight

225 ~> 250 = Super-Heavyweight

250+ = Super-Duper Heavyweight ... (or some such thing) ...

Syntax Error wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 08:03

x2x wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 18:09 ...and that is that we need *at least* one more heavyweight division! As it is they were both in the same weight division, and what a huge handicap that is for the smaller man! Meanwhile the ridiculous light weight divisions are separated by a mere two or three pounds.

It didn't prove any such thing.

Fury is a fat bar steward who should be weighing about 25lbs less than he does & Seferi is a crap cruiserweight.

The night Evander Holyfield became HW champion, he weighed less than Seferi & he marmalised the fat Buster Douglas.

What do you think that 208 lb Holyfield would have done to the 276 lb Fury of Saturday night?

Ability is far more important than unncessary girth.

This isn't really about Fury and Sereri. That wasn't a real fight. It was just an exhibition. They were just examples. The point is the gross size difference in the heavyweight division today, dominated at the top by super heavies dwarfing the traditional heavies of yesteryear - how tiny Seferi, a solid 210, looked in comparison to Fury! If size isn't important than apply that reasoning to everybody, not just those unfortunates whose natural weight happens to be in the low 200's. Do away with weight divisions entirely. Stop pandering to the little guys or even the medium size guys with such narrow weight parameters in their precious divisions (i mentioned examples and equivalent weight discrepencies before). What's good for the goose is good for the gander!