BoxRec

SamWise72 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:37The Groves won every minute of every round against Eubank.

No, he didn't.

He didn't even win every round.

Horse wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:54

gilgamesh wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 21:21 If it goes down I'd favor Saunders confidently. Degale's kinda a frontrunner that always wears out during the 2nd half.

Looking at some of my old scorecards: I don't see any pattern of DeGale losing the later rounds more than the early rounds.

Saunders has worn out in the 2nd half of fights many times.

DeGales stamina has always been an issue. He sits back on the ropes too much throughout most of his fights. He's also on the downward slope whereas BJS is hitting top form. BJS wins on points wide IMO.

Mimmy wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 13:36 Mr W confirms real possibility both will face each other 15 September.

Not sure what weight or who's titles would be on the line.

There's a possibility?

Well, don't just sit there. Make a poll.

ILikeBeer wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:59

Mimmy wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 13:36 Mr W confirms real possibility both will face each other 15 September.

Not sure what weight or who's titles would be on the line.

There's a possibility?

Well, don't just sit there. Make a poll.

SamWise72 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:37 The form book says...... DeGale lost an absolute squeaker against Groves. BJS just about shaded Eubank. The Groves won every minute of every round against Eubank. I don't see any argument in favour of Billy Joe here; he's too small and not very good. It'll be awful to watch, but DeGale should win comfortably. You have to really dislike Billy Joe to want to see him in with a world class middleweight.....

The DeGale Groves fight was a long time ago to be fair. If the DeGale turns up who fought Truax, and that fight is far more relevant, then Saunders would rightly be the favourite.

I think both can end up overrated at times. Their best wins tend to overshadow some really ropy performances over the course of their careers. Speak to some and it's like DeGale should be criticised for nearly chucking away every good win he's had, whilst Saunders win against Lemieux is the reason why he'd be a contender to beat Canelo/GGG, nicely ignoring the garbage served up against Akavov.

Stuarty wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:57DeGales stamina has always been an issue. He sits back on the ropes too much throughout most of his fights. He's also on the downward slope whereas BJS is hitting top form. BJS wins on points wide IMO.

Yes, but he doesn't fade in the 2nd half of fights. He paces himself throughout the fight.

I think DeGale is getting underrated now. I don't think that he's as good as he was, but he looked significantly better in the Truax rematch than in the first fight. If he can improve a bit more on that then I think he can beat Saunders.

Horse wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 06:08

Stuarty wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:57DeGales stamina has always been an issue. He sits back on the ropes too much throughout most of his fights. He's also on the downward slope whereas BJS is hitting top form. BJS wins on points wide IMO.

Yes, but he doesn't fade in the 2nd half of fights. He paces himself throughout the fight.

I think DeGale is getting underrated now. I don't think that he's as good as he was, but he looked significantly better in the Truax rematch than in the first fight. If he can improve a bit more on that then I think he can beat Saunders.

I'm a fan of DeGale and have been since the start but he's not a good a boxer as BJS. Truax is really limited and he went life and death with him. I think the Jack fight took a lot from him. He looked better in the rematch but it was still a struggle. They type of fights drain you. BJS is fresh and on form. DeGale doesn't impose himself in fights.

Billy Joe flatters to deceive, IMO. He's got one good win, against a total one trick pony. I loved DeGale, but he has frustrated the CRAP out of me by how lazy he can be, how he takes rounds off etc, but I really don't see Saunders' win against Lemiuex as signifying much. It's not that he's good, it's that Lemiuex wasn't

They should name this fight insomnia therapy

I get that BJS wants a big money fight after mugging off Murray for GGG & then seeing that fight instead go back to Canello but this is a terrible decision. Neither guy is a huge draw & style wise would make Fury/Wlad look like Hagler/ Hearns.

As for the possibility of it being on BT PPV, I'd pay money not to watch it

Horse wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:54

gilgamesh wrote: ↑20 Jun 2018, 21:21 If it goes down I'd favor Saunders confidently. Degale's kinda a frontrunner that always wears out during the 2nd half.

Looking at some of my old scorecards: I don't see any pattern of DeGale losing the later rounds more than the early rounds.

Saunders has worn out in the 2nd half of fights many times.

You don't score Degale's fights properly then. He slows down in the 2nd half almost always. Sometimes his opponent is so overmatched it just doesn't matter, and even a slowed down version of him is still just better than the guy he's fighting, and able to get the job done, but a great deal of the time it noticeably affects his work, and allows his opponent to come on stronger, and build some momentum.

More often than not he's very good in the 1st half though so a lot of the time he's able to maintain his earlier lead.

But to me he's about as consistent a 2nd half fader as Jean Pascal was. Those 2 guys did as consistently as any fighters I've seen at the Championship level.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 12:28You don't score Degale's fights properly then. He slows down in the 2nd half almost always. Sometimes his opponent is so overmatched it just doesn't matter, and even a slowed down version of him is still just better than the guy he's fighting, and able to get the job done, but a great deal of the time it noticeably affects his work, and allows his opponent to come on stronger, and build some momentum.

More often than not he's very good in the 1st half though so a lot of the time he's able to maintain his earlier lead.

But to me he's about as consistent a 2nd half fader as Jean Pascal was. Those 2 guys did as consistently as any fighters I've seen at the Championship level.

Well, I'm seeing things differently to you.

DeGale has won the majority of the last 4 rounds in the recent fights that I have scored.

I don't see the late fade that you do. I see it more as a general stamina/workrate issue that is fairly consistent throughout the fight.

Horse wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 12:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 12:28You don't score Degale's fights properly then. He slows down in the 2nd half almost always. Sometimes his opponent is so overmatched it just doesn't matter, and even a slowed down version of him is still just better than the guy he's fighting, and able to get the job done, but a great deal of the time it noticeably affects his work, and allows his opponent to come on stronger, and build some momentum.

More often than not he's very good in the 1st half though so a lot of the time he's able to maintain his earlier lead.

But to me he's about as consistent a 2nd half fader as Jean Pascal was. Those 2 guys did as consistently as any fighters I've seen at the Championship level.

Well, I'm seeing things differently to you.

DeGale has won the majority of the last 4 rounds in the recent fights that I have scored.

I don't see the late fade that you do. I see it more as a general stamina/workrate issue that is fairly consistent throughout the fight.

It'd be interesting to see the official scorecards from his bouts. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of rounds he's lost have come after Round 6.

Wow, the fight nobody wanted is in the pipeline!
Saunders and Degale should be in better and more logical fights (as if I needed to write that).

DeGale doesn't fade at the end so much as often take the middle rounds off, and have to really fight at the end. I'm not gonna pretend I score all his fights carefully, but that's the frustrating trend I've noticed.

Yeah, that's the guy I've perceived too. Degale has always been one for going to sleep about rounds 5-9

I wouldn't say DeGale sets a high pace at any point of a fight.

SamWise72 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 06:35 Billy Joe flatters to deceive, IMO. He's got one good win, against a total one trick pony.

Eubank or Andy Lee?

BigDoofus wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 17:07

SamWise72 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 06:35 Billy Joe flatters to deceive, IMO. He's got one good win, against a total one trick pony.

Eubank or Andy Lee?

Lemieux. I never rated Lee, and Eubank has been badly exposed since. If anything, the struggle he had to hold off Eubank now looks like a clear indication that he's not world level.

Not gonna happen , , just smoke and mirrors to keep Saunders name relevant , while he trys to keep his beltwithout defending against anyone decent , until he gets his cashout cheuque fighting Canelo or GGG ,, hOPEFULLY HE'LL BE MADE TO FIGHT SOMEONE DECENT OR STRIPPED

Horse wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 06:08

Stuarty wrote: ↑21 Jun 2018, 05:57DeGales stamina has always been an issue. He sits back on the ropes too much throughout most of his fights. He's also on the downward slope whereas BJS is hitting top form. BJS wins on points wide IMO.

Yes, but he doesn't fade in the 2nd half of fights. He paces himself throughout the fight.

I think DeGale is getting underrated now. I don't think that he's as good as he was, but he looked significantly better in the Truax rematch than in the first fight. If he can improve a bit more on that then I think he can beat Saunders.

i think part of it is bjs getting overrated since beating lemieux, he beats lemieux and suddenly ppl act like hes boxing everyones head off and is some kind of uncrowned p4p fighter whod befuddle top guys like canelo and jacobs and move through the weights picking up titles

even ggg looked a slick untouchable boxing master vs lemieux, but then compare how ggg looked vs jacobs, brook, canelo, etc......VERY hittable and rather limited. lemieux is made to flatter guys like bjs. even willie monroe, hardly moving his hands, did way better vs bjs and was 8-4 and 7-4-1 on two cards despite fighting with an awful mentality

i think degale has faded pretty hard though, he was better in the truax rematch but thats still a tough fight with caleb truax were talking about, who was like a c+ smw until he fought degale

As bad as degale has looked in his last couple and as good as BJS was in his last fight I'd favor Degale. The size difference has to be figured in, Degale's a good size SMW whereas BJS looks like he could do LMW. Degale tends to switch off, but how much would BJS really put it on him when he does. Their both slick boxers, so with the size and reach advantage and hopefully a renewed purpose I'd go degale.