BoxRec

I said if you understand horse racing form. You obviously don’t. The form didn’t work out at all.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:27 I said if you understand horse racing form. You obviously don’t. The form didn’t work out at all.

I worked in a bookies for 4 years when I was at university, and have been going to the races since I was a kid. I understand horse race form.

I don’t understand your continual bias against AJ and your stance that his opponents have been poor.

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:50

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:27 I said if you understand horse racing form. You obviously don’t. The form didn’t work out at all.

I worked in a bookies for 4 years when I was at university, and have been going to the races since I was a kid. I understand horse race form.

I don’t understand your continual bias against AJ and your stance that his opponents have been poor.

And I thought it was just me , let's be honest here who else with the exception of Wilder who else could Joshua have fought ?

I've seen many world champions over the years who's records were padded to say the least and I wouldn't say Joshua up to now was one of them .

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:27 I said if you understand horse racing form. You obviously don’t. The form didn’t work out at all.

You're arguing with people who think Joshua beats Prime Mike Tyson

Noxy wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 11:49

thechump wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 09:38

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 03:55 Del was undefeated British and Commonwealth champion first time round. Not the shot version robbed against Whyte.

Takem no.2 wba brazeale no.1 ibf and now mandatory for wbc,parker wbo chsmpion whyte no.1 in wbc and is wba and wbo intercontinental champion and now povetkin wba no.1,tell me who did fury fight when he was world champ? Ill tell you,no one he gave up belts rather than rematch the old klitschko,he gave them up cause he knew wlad would beat him.

He knew Wlad would beat him? I don’t know how he found that out after the first fight.

Same reason hasim rahman got whopped by Lennox Lewis,same reason lamon brewster got ktfo by wlad. Fury done a whole lot of nothing and didnt trouble wlad in the sense of punches hurting him so wlad knew 2nd fight he had to do more and he was up for it,fury wasnt.
Fury done a Buster Douglas he done a Leon Spinks he got to the pinnacle and the hunger left him so he done what they never and left boxing till he regained his hunger.
This is how i see it and then we have the Joshua haters but at least Joshua has defended 2 of his titles successfully,fury will beat wilder and then we will see who is top dog in the world and the UK until then all we can do is surmise and Mickey hates Joshua but absolutley loves Fury so he will never say any heavyweight is better than Fury but thats ok because he is a loyal fan.

rd350lc wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 13:32

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:50

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:27 I said if you understand horse racing form. You obviously don’t. The form didn’t work out at all.

I worked in a bookies for 4 years when I was at university, and have been going to the races since I was a kid. I understand horse race form.

I don’t understand your continual bias against AJ and your stance that his opponents have been poor.

And I thought it was just me , let's be honest here who else with the exception of Wilder who else could Joshua have fought ?

I've seen many world champions over the years who's records were padded to say the least and I wouldn't say Joshua up to now was one of them .

Me neither

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:50

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 12:27 I said if you understand horse racing form. You obviously don’t. The form didn’t work out at all.

I worked in a bookies for 4 years when I was at university, and have been going to the races since I was a kid. I understand horse race form.

I don’t understand your continual bias against AJ and your stance that his opponents have been poor.

So how has the form worked out?

I agree with mickey.

There’s a lot of revisionist thinking going on about AJ’s opponents. At the time he fought them they were widely regarded as follows

Whyte was a domestic level crude out of shape ex kickboxer

Takam was a late stand in no hoper

Parker had beaten nobody of note and in his previous fight had laboured to a controversial decision against fury who hadn’t boxed for 18months

Molina was an ageing gatekeeper

Breazeale was game enough but his best victory had come by way of a freak occurrence in a fight he could have lost and he was very limited

Where the various sanctioning bodies had them ranked is irrelevant- it’s all politics

AJ has two credible challengers and he’s avoiding them. Do I blame him and Eddie ? Do I fvck I’d do exactly the same in their situation but we shouldn’t pretend that he’s cutting a swathe through all the top talent out there

can spin pretty much anyone negatively, definitely including the opponents of fury, wilder, and the top contenders. where obvious bias comes in is doing it only to one guy. like mickey going on about the age of ajs opponents and how some are over 35, as if the same couldnt be applied to fury and wilder to wipe out there best wins.

ajs been a pro for not even 5 years (vs 10 for wilder and fury) but easily has the top resume with the most depth to it. lolz if you dont think we can sh!T on guys like hammer (taras bidenkos leftovers), szpilka (omg could barely beat mike mollo, hardly won a round vs jennings, and totally battered by fatty kownacki), washington (football player who couldnt even beat little old mansour, wasted like sh!t by miller), stiverne (lazy fatty who got knocked out by a total nobody, drew with another journeyman, was getting schooled by 40 year old ray austin), chisora (how many losses?) etc too. and of course we could easily pull out a 'luis ortiz looked like utter lumbering sh!t in failing to stop malik scott, has all of one standout win, and looks even older then his 39"


and just let me add again how lolz it is that people like mikey suddenly have a fetish for finkel, the same guy who said 30 year old ,7 year pro, 33 fight wilder was just a baby who needed baby steps. the same guy guiding the fighter who after 31 fights fought jason gavern. ya, shellys all about ambitious matchmaking baby. he really moved wilder a lot faster then hearn has moved aj.


if only eddie could have aj fighting jason gavern two years and ten fights from now

I can't even fathom how AJ's resume isn't the best right now.
Look at the "0" s he has taken, look at how much harder Wlad fought against him, Wlad put in one of his best career performances.
No way does Fury or Wilder come close.

AJ's Top 5 opponents:
Whyte, Martin, Brezeale, Klitschko, Parker

Wilder Top 5 opponents:
Stiverne (1st fight), Molina, Szpilka, Washington, Ortiz

Fury Top 5 opponents:
Chisora (1st), Johnson, Chisora (2nd), Hammer, Klitschko


All opponents should be evaluated at the level when they were fighting them. For example fighting someone like Kevin Johnson right now would be like fighting a bum, but fighting him when Fury fought him is a different thing all together. Similarly to Molina of Wilder. He fought Molina before Joshua and Molina's value at that level was higher.

klitoris wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 00:08 AJ's Top 5 opponents:
Whyte, Martin, Brezeale, Klitschko, Parker

Wilder Top 5 opponents:
Stiverne (1st fight), Molina, Szpilka, Washington, Ortiz

Fury Top 5 opponents:
Chisora (1st), Johnson, Chisora (2nd), Hammer, Klitschko


All opponents should be evaluated at the level when they were fighting them. For example fighting someone like Kevin Johnson right now would be like fighting a bum, but fighting him when Fury fought him is a different thing all together. Similarly to Molina of Wilder. He fought Molina before Joshua and Molina's value at that level was higher.

molinas biggest win by far is the one over adamek, which he got right before getting starched by aj, bizarre that youd single him out for that example and say hed lost credit

molina gained value too for hurting wilder , lasting late , and doing much better then most expected after they saw him stopped in 90 seconds by arreola., his stock went up , and then up again for knocking out adamek

its hardly the case that the fighter always has more credit for earlier fights

You can argue Fury , AJ , and Wilder are the best 3 heavyweights , and all the rest are B grade gate keepers , , But all 3 have fought the B grade gatekeepers and not one of the 3 have fought each other , They have all ducked and dived shouted from the rooftops and pulled out , or made ridiculous demands ,, Alls it says isheavyweight boxing is in a bad state.

coneye wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 02:51 You can argue Fury , AJ , and Wilder are the best 3 heavyweights , and all the rest are B grade gate keepers , , But all 3 have fought the B grade gatekeepers and not one of the 3 have fought each other , They have all ducked and dived shouted from the rooftops and pulled out , or made ridiculous demands ,, Alls it says isheavyweight boxing is in a bad state.

That’s not true, Fury was banned. He’s signed to fight Widler after a fair comeback, they had it sorted before he even finished the comeback. Can’t argue with that, AJ had all the time in the world to fight Wilder.

Heavyweight boxing is in a far better state now than it was under Wlad's long reign as champion. I guess you simply can’t please everyone.

Hearn and Joshua need calling out on this. $50m is a monumental duck.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 03:44 Hearn and Joshua need calling out on this. $50m is a monumental duck.

I still think that offer was bollocks as far as I understand I don't think there was even a contract from Wilders side. That being said Hearn was too dismissive and has a lot to answer for.


Fury wouldn't be getting anywhere near that and the fight hasn't happened yet. As we know with Fury there is always a decent chance this fight falls through.

Naandrew wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 03:56

BigDoofus wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 03:44 Hearn and Joshua need calling out on this. $50m is a monumental duck.

I still think that offer was bollocks as far as I understand I don't think there was even a contract from Wilders side. That being said Hearn was too dismissive and has a lot to answer for.


Fury would be getting anywhere near that and the fight hasn't happened yet. As we know with Fury there is always a decent chance this fight falls through.

Haymon, Finkel and Warren are all in on it now... I think even Hearn said the money was there.

haymon and finkel are team wilder (the 30 year old baby ), so of course on them

btw does haymon actually speak

Naandrew wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 03:56

I still think that offer was bollocks as far as I understand I don't think there was even a contract from Wilders side.

You might think it was bollocks but Joshua's promoter said it was genuine.
If a contract wasn't prepared Joshua cannot use specific clauses as his excuse. He didn't want the fight.

Fair enough if people want to tear Joshua's CV to shreds but don't counter it by mentioning Fury's in a superior light

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 21:19 I agree with mickey.

There’s a lot of revisionist thinking going on about AJ’s opponents. At the time he fought them they were widely regarded as follows

Whyte was a domestic level crude out of shape ex kickboxer

Takam was a late stand in no hoper

Parker had beaten nobody of note and in his previous fight had laboured to a controversial decision against fury who hadn’t boxed for 18months

Molina was an ageing gatekeeper

Breazeale was game enough but his best victory had come by way of a freak occurrence in a fight he could have lost and he was very limited

Where the various sanctioning bodies had them ranked is irrelevant- it’s all politics

AJ has two credible challengers and he’s avoiding them. Do I blame him and Eddie ? Do I fvck I’d do exactly the same in their situation but we shouldn’t pretend that he’s cutting a swathe through all the top talent out there

Easily done for every opponent on any fighters list.

Chisora before Fury 1 - hadn’t beat anyone bar the ghost of Danny Williams and had previously struggled in a close fight with Sam Sexton.
Before Fury 2 - been demolished by an old David Haye and had 4 losses on his record at that point. He had one of his frequent off nights too in the Fury rematch.
Hammer - Just awful
Wlad - showed signs of becoming routine and lacking in motivation in previous fight against Jennings and was on something of a bum of the month campaign it can be argued. Looked to lack motivation in the Fury fight which ended up being close and extremely boring.

Hard to make a case for any other opponent. They are all pretty poor.

I don’t necessarily believe any of that but it shows how easy it is to pick holes in records and opponents.

Joshua and Hearn ( more than likely just Hearn ) want to call all the shots in any potential fight with Wilder and Fury. With Joshua being by far the bigger name and earner, along with having the better record, some might argue that’s not an unfair position to take.
Again, I’m not agreeing with that, I just want to see them all fvcking fight each other! I care not for the stupid dick measuring and who earns what.
It’s almost as tedious as these threads that start up by fanboys of one of the fighters involved, looking for some bites off other posters!

I'm tempted to put Ortiz slightly ahead of Chisora and Parker, and feel that Joshua beat the more determined Wlad.

So Joshua for now, but soon to be overtaken by the winner of Wilder-Fury.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 05:56 I'm tempted to put Ortiz slightly ahead of Chisora and Parker, and feel that Joshua beat the more determined Wlad.

So Joshua for now, but soon to be overtaken by the winner of Wilder-Fury.

Interesting point raised as one could argue that all this debating on who has the best resume becomes moot after Wilder and Fury fight as one of those two would have a better resume than AJ at that point.

I think Joshua has the slightly better resume, but Fury is close behind giving a good and close argument.

Wilder's is terrible, it really is.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑19 Aug 2018, 05:56 I'm tempted to put Ortiz slightly ahead of Chisora and Parker, and feel that Joshua beat the more determined Wlad.

So Joshua for now, but soon to be overtaken by the winner of Wilder-Fury.

This is pretty much spot on.

Wilder-Fury winner becomes the best record of the three. Anyone envisage all of them beating each other by the way?

Fury outboxing Wilder, then getting stopped by AJ who then gets caught with a big one by Wilder...

Then back to square one?