BoxRec

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW. Not a big deal timewise, but I can't have you misrepresenting my boy.

Anyhow, I think 147 was pretty good then. At the time I remember giving Floyd crap because I thought he was ducking a lot of the competition at 147 at that point.

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:16 Mayweather by a landslide.

I would have loved to had seen Corrales move up and face Margarito. Or maybe a catch weight at 140. They were about the same height. Margarito most likely would have stopped Diego. But, it would have been a blast.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:42

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:16 Mayweather by a landslide.

I would have loved to had seen Corrales move up and face Margarito. Or maybe a catch weight at 140. They were about the same height. Margarito most likely would have stopped Diego. But, it would have been a blast.

Couldn't see Corrales ever being competitive with Margarito. Tony was structurally a big dude.

No way Margarito could ever make a 140 lb catchweight. I'm surprised he stayed at 147 for so long.

And Corrales probably didn't have the physical strength to match up at welter.
He wasn't very competitive against Clottey in his only welterweight fight.

The underappreciated Margarito would have devoured Corrales.

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 17:58

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

That's the problem. Them losing doesn't mean they weren't dangerous nor would've definitely lost to Floyd. When the top guys fought each other in their primes, they lost some. Floyd really was weary of both Margarito and Williams and Paul would probably beaten him. Paul has NEVER had trouble with an orthodox boxer. He's only lost and had trouble (Lara) with southpaws which Floyd really isn't. And Williams was more at 154, which Floyd would go to for certain fights. He was going to fight Canelo before his accident.

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:03

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008, causing his stock to briefly drop. I'm not criticising the man, but what I've described is historically correct. 'The Punisher' was a fine fighter, but there's no denying that he did lose in 2008. It actually happened.

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:26

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:03

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008, causing his stock to briefly drop. I'm not criticising the man, but what I've described is historically correct. 'The Punisher' was a fine fighter, but there's no denying that he did lose in 2008. It actually happened.

Yes, he was beat. You state it as if he moved up because he got beat and moved up directly after he was beaten. You worded it deceptively. Like you were dismissing him as a threat due to the loss, but ignoring to mention that he avenged the defeat in spectacular fashion to glamorize your stance.

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:30 There would have been a lot of money in a William's fight at that time. There was certainly a ton of interest. Floyd got tons of crap at the time for not facing him or Margarito.

Doesn't matter if we think Floyd would have won. They were seen as serious threats at the time.

oogiebe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:28

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:26

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:03

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008, causing his stock to briefly drop. I'm not criticising the man, but what I've described is historically correct. 'The Punisher' was a fine fighter, but there's no denying that he did lose in 2008. It actually happened.

Yes, he was beat. You state it as if he moved up because he got beat and moved up directly after he was beaten. You worded it deceptively. Like you were dismissing him as a threat due to the loss, but ignoring to mention that he avenged the defeat in spectacular fashion to glamorize your stance.

Typical fashion by EO that was. Williams loses a decision and ko's the guy in 1 in the rematch sounds a bit different, now doesn't it?

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:33

oogiebe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:28

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:26

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:03

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008, causing his stock to briefly drop. I'm not criticising the man, but what I've described is historically correct. 'The Punisher' was a fine fighter, but there's no denying that he did lose in 2008. It actually happened.

Yes, he was beat. You state it as if he moved up because he got beat and moved up directly after he was beaten. You worded it deceptively. Like you were dismissing him as a threat due to the loss, but ignoring to mention that he avenged the defeat in spectacular fashion to glamorize your stance.

Typical fashion by EO that was. Williams loses a decision and ko's the guy in 1 in the rematch sounds a bit different, now doesn't it?

This is EO!? This ought to be interesting as he will not budge an inch. I don't think he's ever admitted he was ever wrong on anything. I should never have responded.

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:09

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 17:58

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

That's the problem. Them losing doesn't mean they weren't dangerous nor would've definitely lost to Floyd. When the top guys fought each other in their primes, they lost some. Floyd really was weary of both Margarito and Williams and Paul would probably beaten him. Paul has NEVER had trouble with an orthodox boxer. He's only lost and had trouble (Lara) with southpaws which Floyd really isn't. And Williams was more at 154, which Floyd would go to for certain fights. He was going to fight Canelo before his accident.

Floyd was after big fights. Fighters that recently lost and didn't generate big revenue figures were never going to be granted opportunities to face Mayweather Jr.

For the record, in my mind, Floyd beats Williams and Margarito, because he not only faced, but also defeated better fighters during the course of his career.

Surely we're not pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather Jr. would have almost certainly beaten him.

There's nothing wrong with having a strong dislike for Money May, but it seems totally absurd to allow your feelings to dismiss his in-ring boxing ability.

Luis Collazo was a top-ten welterweight in 2008, does this automatically mean that the New York native would have definitely beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr. also?

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 18:20

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:09

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 17:58

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

That's the problem. Them losing doesn't mean they weren't dangerous nor would've definitely lost to Floyd. When the top guys fought each other in their primes, they lost some. Floyd really was weary of both Margarito and Williams and Paul would probably beaten him. Paul has NEVER had trouble with an orthodox boxer. He's only lost and had trouble (Lara) with southpaws which Floyd really isn't. And Williams was more at 154, which Floyd would go to for certain fights. He was going to fight Canelo before his accident.

Floyd was after big fights. Fighters that recently lost and didn't generate big revenue figures were never going to be granted opportunities to face Mayweather Jr.

For the record, in my mind, Floyd beats Williams and Margarito, because he not only faced, but also defeated better fighters during the course of his career.

Surely we're not pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather Jr. would have almost certainly beaten him.

There's nothing wrong with having a strong dislike for Money May, but it seems totally absurd to allow your feelings to dismiss his in-ring boxing ability.

Luis Collazo was a top-ten welterweight in 2008, does this automatically mean that the New York native would have definitely beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr. also?

Like Zab Judah, who fought Floyd coming off a loss because he was a bigger fight than Margarito?

Revnues? Is that what Robert Guerrero and Victor Ortiz were, money drawers?

And Floyd only beat those guys in your mind. Fights aren't won on paper, they're won in the ring.

And stop pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather would have certainly lost to him. That's why fighters fight. Mayweather is like the only fighter in history that beats everyone he didn't fight in his era without actually doing it.

Onekrazyrican wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 21:45 Theres no absolute true in these "What if" scenarios but some people act as if its a sin to imagine a universe where Floyd loses a fight. I'm not blaming the man for how he did his thing but that retirement from 2007 to 2009 was super convenient. Imagine if Leonard had skipped the golden era then came back to pick up the scraps. He would have probably been undefeated too. Mosley and Cotto both gave good accounts of themselves years later against Floyd is it really impossible they would have done better with less wear and tear?

Imagine you have just seen Cotto-Mosley, Kermit-Margarito II, Williams-Quintana II and Mayweather-Hatton...

I'm impressed to see so many predictions of a shut out Ive seen here. I don't have any inside scoop from Floyd's camp but I'm pretty sure he did not feel as confident about his chances as some of you guys are

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 20:40

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 18:20

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:09

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 17:58

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

That's the problem. Them losing doesn't mean they weren't dangerous nor would've definitely lost to Floyd. When the top guys fought each other in their primes, they lost some. Floyd really was weary of both Margarito and Williams and Paul would probably beaten him. Paul has NEVER had trouble with an orthodox boxer. He's only lost and had trouble (Lara) with southpaws which Floyd really isn't. And Williams was more at 154, which Floyd would go to for certain fights. He was going to fight Canelo before his accident.

Floyd was after big fights. Fighters that recently lost and didn't generate big revenue figures were never going to be granted opportunities to face Mayweather Jr.

For the record, in my mind, Floyd beats Williams and Margarito, because he not only faced, but also defeated better fighters during the course of his career.

Surely we're not pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather Jr. would have almost certainly beaten him.

There's nothing wrong with having a strong dislike for Money May, but it seems totally absurd to allow your feelings to dismiss his in-ring boxing ability.

Luis Collazo was a top-ten welterweight in 2008, does this automatically mean that the New York native would have definitely beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr. also?

Like Zab Judah, who fought Floyd coming off a loss because he was a bigger fight than Margarito?

Revnues? Is that what Robert Guerrero and Victor Ortiz were, money drawers?

And Floyd only beat those guys in your mind. Fights aren't won on paper, they're won in the ring.

And stop pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather would have certainly lost to him. That's why fighters fight. Mayweather is like the only fighter in history that beats everyone he didn't fight in his era without actually doing it.

Victor Ortiz was the WBC world welterweight champion, having faced five former world champions, at the time Floyd Mayweather Jr. faced him.

Robert Guerrero hadn’t been defeated for almost eight years prior to facing Mayweather, he was the mandatory challenger, a two-time IBF featherweight champion, a former IBF super-featherweight champion, having defeated six world champions and also held both the WBA and WBC interim welterweight titles.

Ortiz and Guerrero were also stablemates of Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Antonio Margarito was defeated in 2007 and was then stopped two years later against a former Floyd Mayweather Jr. victim. The Mexican’s in-ring success during 2008 was attributed to his hands being wrapped in plaster.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008 and then moved up a division seven months later. A couple of years later, he was stopped inside two rounds.

Neither Margarito nor Williams were stablemates of Mayweather. Coincidentally, neither Margarito nor Williams were big draws or receiving big paydays during 2007/08.

Also, the conquerors of Williams and Margarito tasted defeat to former Floyd Mayweather Jr. victims (i.e. Carlos Quintana was defeated by Miguel Cotto and Andre Berto; whereas Sergio Martinez was stopped by Miguel Cotto; Antonio Margarito was stopped by Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto and also outpointed by Manny Pacquiao).

Floyd Mayweather Jr. would never have faced an opponent that had recently lost, weren't politically affiliated with the same promoter/TV network and weren’t considered big draws. It’s rather naïve to believe otherwise, don’t you think?

Let's stop pretending that Williams and Margarito are both certified Hall-of-Famers that would have enjoyed guaranteed victories over Floyd Mayweather Jr. had they faced him during 2008.

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:26

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:03

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 14:21

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Correction.... Williams avenged his defeat, and then moved up to JMW.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008, causing his stock to briefly drop. I'm not criticising the man, but what I've described is historically correct. 'The Punisher' was a fine fighter, but there's no denying that he did lose in 2008. It actually happened.

Yes, he was beat. You state it as if he moved up because he got beat and moved up directly after he was beaten. You worded it deceptively. Like you were dismissing him as a threat due to the loss, but ignoring to mention that he avenged the defeat in spectacular fashion to glamorize your stance.

Just for the record, he moved up to 160 for a fight with Kolle before moving to 154. So, technically, he didn't move to 154 as quickly as you are insinuating. 2 fights after his defeat.

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 20:40

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 18:20

Eolaithe wrote: ↑23 Feb 2019, 14:09

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 17:58

Eolaithe wrote: ↑22 Feb 2019, 11:38 The was nothing scary about the welterweight division during 2008, which may have compelled Mayweather to retire briefly. Floyd eventually beat the biggest names that competed during that year, apart from Margarito.

Williams tasted defeat during 2008 and then very quickly moved to 154lbs.

Margarito lost the year prior. And would have been beaten by Mayweather, with ease.

Sergio Martinez was a light middleweight and never tried to face Floyd even when Money May made his ring return. The Argentine would have been beaten easily by Mayweather.

If Floyd decided against retiring in 2007, he would have engaged in a rematch with Oscar De a Hoya. None of the other guys would have been considered worthy opponents for Mayweather (based on those that Floyd never faced).

That's the problem. Them losing doesn't mean they weren't dangerous nor would've definitely lost to Floyd. When the top guys fought each other in their primes, they lost some. Floyd really was weary of both Margarito and Williams and Paul would probably beaten him. Paul has NEVER had trouble with an orthodox boxer. He's only lost and had trouble (Lara) with southpaws which Floyd really isn't. And Williams was more at 154, which Floyd would go to for certain fights. He was going to fight Canelo before his accident.

Floyd was after big fights. Fighters that recently lost and didn't generate big revenue figures were never going to be granted opportunities to face Mayweather Jr.

For the record, in my mind, Floyd beats Williams and Margarito, because he not only faced, but also defeated better fighters during the course of his career.

Surely we're not pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather Jr. would have almost certainly beaten him.

There's nothing wrong with having a strong dislike for Money May, but it seems totally absurd to allow your feelings to dismiss his in-ring boxing ability.

Luis Collazo was a top-ten welterweight in 2008, does this automatically mean that the New York native would have definitely beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr. also?

Like Zab Judah, who fought Floyd coming off a loss because he was a bigger fight than Margarito?

Revnues? Is that what Robert Guerrero and Victor Ortiz were, money drawers?

And Floyd only beat those guys in your mind. Fights aren't won on paper, they're won in the ring.

And stop pretending that any fighter that never faced Mayweather would have certainly lost to him. That's why fighters fight. Mayweather is like the only fighter in history that beats everyone he didn't fight in his era without actually doing it.

Victor Ortiz was the WBC world welterweight champion, having faced five former world champions, at the time Floyd Mayweather Jr. faced him.

Robert Guerrero hadn’t been defeated for almost eight years prior to facing Mayweather, he was the mandatory challenger, a two-time IBF featherweight champion, a former IBF super-featherweight champion, having defeated six world champions and also held both the WBA and WBC interim welterweight titles.

Ortiz and Guerrero were also stablemates of Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Antonio Margarito was defeated in 2007 and was then stopped two years later against a former Floyd Mayweather Jr. victim. The Mexican’s in-ring success during 2008 was attributed to his hands being wrapped in plaster.

Paul Williams was defeated in 2008 and then moved up a division seven months later. A couple of years later, he was stopped inside two rounds.

Neither Margarito nor Williams were stablemates of Mayweather. Coincidentally, neither Margarito nor Williams were big draws or receiving big paydays during 2007/08.

Also, the conquerors of Williams and Margarito tasted defeat to former Floyd Mayweather Jr. victims (i.e. Carlos Quintana was defeated by Miguel Cotto and Andre Berto; whereas Sergio Martinez was stopped by Miguel Cotto; Antonio Margarito was stopped by Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto and also outpointed by Manny Pacquiao).

Floyd Mayweather Jr. would never have faced an opponent that had recently lost, weren't politically affiliated with the same promoter/TV network and weren’t considered big draws. It’s rather naïve to believe otherwise, don’t you think?

Let's stop pretending that Williams and Margarito are both certified Hall-of-Famers that would have enjoyed guaranteed victories over Floyd Mayweather Jr. had they faced him during 2008.