BoxRec

Loftgroov wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 14:13 At world level almost without question, and same for e.g. the UFC and most top spots.

Many will be on Clenbuterol/Winstrol especially.

Maybe 30 years ago. Epo and hgh are probably the top along with some not yet named.

banjo wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 15:30 I always say look at what Messi and Ronaldo are doing and tell me that's natural, effing horseshit.

I get very suspicious wh

kbackup408 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 14:58

Oiky wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 14:53 Yes of course....been happening for years too,you'd be a very naive man to believe any different...

It's just a case of who you are that determines what the punishment will be,or if you will even be caught at all

the cold truth is it has been happening across multiple sports for decades (cuban baseball players chewing gummies, lance, roy jones jr moving up to HW and so on ..) !

Your not wrong mate

well the amount using is certanly greater then the amount caught, and we have proven cases where ppl took for years but still passed tests or didnt admit it using till years after, i have to think there is loads of it in the sport well beyond what has actually been shown

chris hammer alone has fought like 7 documented users or something

Fighters bulking up, esp in the heavies seem the most obvious. After Holyfield first lost at heavy he came back very different physically.
AJ of course has bulked up a lot since the Olympics.

Coco wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 06:29 Fighters bulking up, esp in the heavies seem the most obvious. After Holyfield first lost at heavy he came back very different physically.
AJ of course has bulked up a lot since the Olympics.

Holyfield was already heavily involved in this shite before he lost to Bowe. Check out who helped with his weight / muscle gaining training and it reveals all you need to know. The guy who helped him was fellow Atlanta resident, Mr Lee Haney, an 8-time Mr Olympia winner

tobyh5 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 11:57 Its commonsense plus a basic grasp of the science

- Oh, pooch belly Toby science is it now?

Yeah, most of the overly larded western world have pooch bellies, ergo PED users!

By degree of ninnygrams no less.

But, ugh, pooch belly Tobys say BALCO Vic VADA Vitamins good for boxing without providing proof of their own doping test values nor any of the politicians and business leaders whom they march in perfect order like a herd of bleating sheep.

Well, it's a new order of light in the loafer fans and boxers, so let's see you pooch bellies unify boxing like Dana did with UFC, and call it the BALCO Vic VADA clean boxing title and let all them hambone abc orgs fend for themselves.

And the Pooch Belly Toby fights and fighter of the year awards and honorary New Green Deal trophies and MAGA/Brexit hats.

tobyh5 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 11:57 Its commonsense plus a basic grasp of the science

I think many people with a basic grasp of science and commonsense are misguided in believing they 'know' the truth. And don't quite fully understand the almighty power of positive thinking and obsessive dedication.

Coco wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 06:29 Fighters bulking up, esp in the heavies seem the most obvious. After Holyfield first lost at heavy he came back very different physically.
AJ of course has bulked up a lot since the Olympics.

The most obvious ever was pac vs cotto. Holyfield used years before that to get to heavyweight. Bulking up would be the least effective ped use now. Epo makes every aspect of your game better. It's way advanced these days for any eye test of physical appearance.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 12:31

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 12:25 Of course, most golfers are.

LOL! And bowlers.

Dont forget darts,phil taylor was well on the roids biggest kept secret since lance armstrong haha

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 12:33

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 12:31

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 12:25 Of course, most golfers are.

LOL! And bowlers.

Well, that's probably pushing it. Golf takes a ton of athleticism and strength.

PEDs don’t only affect how much you bench press or how fast you run - snooker players have been found taking beta blockers which slow down their heart rate enabling to play better under pressure.

I'm afraid so.

I don't like to admit - but I have to.

Not just boxing either.
Team GB for example - always test clean and they *are* clean. But not clean clean. They have a small army of chemists, specialist sports lawyers and friendly doctors. So they pass test after test after test - but they're not 'clean' they're gaming the system.
BJS was obviously up to something similar, but without the crack team behind him. How can something be legal under UKAD rules and banned under WADA (or whatever the precise details were).

Everyone agrees punishments should be harsher - but I think it should actually be made a criminal offence.
In combat sports, certainly.

skanksta wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 10:48 I'm afraid so.

I don't like to admit - but I have to.

Not just boxing either.
Team GB for example - always test clean and they *are* clean. But not clean clean. They have a small army of chemists, specialist sports lawyers and friendly doctors. So they pass test after test after test - but they're not 'clean' they're gaming the system.
BJS was obviously up to something similar, but without the crack team behind him. How can something be legal under UKAD rules and banned under WADA (or whatever the precise details were).

Everyone agrees punishments should be harsher - but I think it should actually be made a criminal offence.
In combat sports, certainly.

that is very true, I try not to think about this side of boxing/sports because it really spoils the spectacle but it is undeniably embedded into high level sports !

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 16:56

banjo wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 15:30 I always say look at what Messi and Ronaldo are doing and tell me that's natural, effing horseshit.

I get very suspicious wh

?

skanksta wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 10:48 I'm afraid so.

I don't like to admit - but I have to.

Not just boxing either.
Team GB for example - always test clean and they *are* clean. But not clean clean. They have a small army of chemists, specialist sports lawyers and friendly doctors. So they pass test after test after test - but they're not 'clean' they're gaming the system.
BJS was obviously up to something similar, but without the crack team behind him. How can something be legal under UKAD rules and banned under WADA (or whatever the precise details were).

Everyone agrees punishments should be harsher - but I think it should actually be made a criminal offence.
In combat sports, certainly.

Olympian Ali wasn’t.

I figure at the very least 60 to 70% of the guys at the very top of ANY type of athletics are gonna be doing whatever it takes to get to that level including PED's. So yeah, I'm willing to admit it, and frankly I don't care. It's their body. Though it is more admirable obviously to do it without any help, but what you were born with, but it's hard to ever tell when somebody is really clean.

Might be an interesting offshoot of this discussion to bat around which boxers or perhaps other athletes in sports you DO believe are clean. It'd probably be a shorter list than which ones aren't.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 12:03 I figure at the very least 60 to 70% of the guys at the very top of ANY type of athletics are gonna be doing whatever it takes to get to that level including PED's. So yeah, I'm willing to admit it, and frankly I don't care. It's their body. Though it is more admirable obviously to do it without any help, but what you were born with, but it's hard to ever tell when somebody is really clean.

Might be an interesting offshoot of this discussion to bat around which boxers or perhaps other athletes in sports you DO believe are clean. It'd probably be a shorter list than which ones aren't.

I wouldn't even venture a guess on who's clean. Athletes' PED providers are always a step ahead in developing enhancers that go undetected. I can't care anymore as there's nothing I can do about it, other than to no longer watch sports, which is out of the question.

I think Bellew was clean. He was the very few that stuck his head above the parapet and was vocal about being anti drugs.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 12:03 I figure at the very least 60 to 70% of the guys at the very top of ANY type of athletics are gonna be doing whatever it takes to get to that level including PED's. So yeah, I'm willing to admit it, and frankly I don't care. It's their body. Though it is more admirable obviously to do it without any help, but what you were born with, but it's hard to ever tell when somebody is really clean.

Might be an interesting offshoot of this discussion to bat around which boxers or perhaps other athletes in sports you DO believe are clean. It'd probably be a shorter list than which ones aren't.

I believe Usain Bolt was clean. Passed every test, blood levels were always stable, and he passed his peak in his early thirties. Also, sometimes we overstate the progress of athletic progress over the years. I mean you consider our greater knowledge of training and conditioning, rest and recuperation and nutrition...

Dixonian wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 08:39

tobyh5 wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 11:57 Its commonsense plus a basic grasp of the science

I think many people with a basic grasp of science and commonsense are misguided in believing they 'know' the truth. And don't quite fully understand the almighty power of positive thinking and obsessive dedication.

In some instances yes.

Dixonian wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 12:32

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 12:03 I figure at the very least 60 to 70% of the guys at the very top of ANY type of athletics are gonna be doing whatever it takes to get to that level including PED's. So yeah, I'm willing to admit it, and frankly I don't care. It's their body. Though it is more admirable obviously to do it without any help, but what you were born with, but it's hard to ever tell when somebody is really clean.

Might be an interesting offshoot of this discussion to bat around which boxers or perhaps other athletes in sports you DO believe are clean. It'd probably be a shorter list than which ones aren't.

I believe Usain Bolt was clean. Passed every test, blood levels were always stable, and he passed his peak in his early thirties. Also, sometimes we overstate the progress of athletic progress over the years. I mean you consider our greater knowledge of training and conditioning, rest and recuperation and nutrition...

you raise a very good point, most of these athletes start training when they are very young so peaking at 30 seems plausible !

Dixonian wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 12:32

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2019, 12:03 I figure at the very least 60 to 70% of the guys at the very top of ANY type of athletics are gonna be doing whatever it takes to get to that level including PED's. So yeah, I'm willing to admit it, and frankly I don't care. It's their body. Though it is more admirable obviously to do it without any help, but what you were born with, but it's hard to ever tell when somebody is really clean.

Might be an interesting offshoot of this discussion to bat around which boxers or perhaps other athletes in sports you DO believe are clean. It'd probably be a shorter list than which ones aren't.

I believe Usain Bolt was clean. Passed every test, blood levels were always stable, and he passed his peak in his early thirties. Also, sometimes we overstate the progress of athletic progress over the years. I mean you consider our greater knowledge of training and conditioning, rest and recuperation and nutrition...

He'd be one of the least likely to be clean in the dirtiest of sporrs. I can't remember how many times I've read people say that about Lance Armstrong.

I'd say 90% of athletes are on it unfortunately

banjo wrote: ↑03 Mar 2019, 10:13 I've believed it for years and this goes for pretty much any top athlete, not just boxing.

Totally agree. Stupidity and politics get people caught.

if you get caught in boxing you have clearly p!ssed someone off in the boxing hierarchy - which makes me have more respect for the Canelo naming and shaming!