Vysotsky never fought as a pro. Makes your entire post contradictory. Lewis was one of the best, vitali doesn't belong in the same breath.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 09:54
by sturm vogel
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 00:35
Vysotsky never fought as a pro. Makes your entire post contradictory. Lewis was one of the best, vitali doesn't belong in the same breath.
As "Vysotsky never fought as a pro", that accords with my post it doesn't contradict it. I expressed how poorly Ali performed against a poor pro (Leon), and expressed how poorly Ali performed against the Soviet Amateurs. I likening the two events, I showed them to be similar not dissimilar; that is an accord not a contradiction. There is a difference if you comprehend the words.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 10:43
by Ilya Muromets
"Vysotsky never fought as a pro."
Duh no kidding. That's only what this whole thread is pretty much all about.
I've got that Onetime troll on ignore. I only saw that because SV reposted it.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 11:55
by oogiebe
I cannot believe I'm seeing folks give credence to sparring with an aged Ali, as well as pointing out Leon's win over that old and fat Ali. Ali was so far past prime it's totally ridiculous. In addition, Eastern Europeans and Cuban fighters of the seventies were lifetime "amateurs," making them more pro than ams. The basis for comparisons is ludicrous.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 12:19
by Ilya Muromets
oogiebe wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 11:55
I cannot believe I'm seeing folks give credence to sparring with an aged Ali, as well as pointing out Leon's win over that old and fat Ali. Ali was so far past prime it's totally ridiculous. In addition, Eastern Europeans and Cuban fighters of the seventies were lifetime "amateurs," making them more pro than ams. The basis for comparisons is ludicrous.
Aged, old and fat? Past his prime? Age 36 is aged? He fought Spinks less than five months after he fought Ernie Shavers. He weighed the same for the Spinks fight as he did for the Frazier fight in Oct '75. So how was he aged old and fat?
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 12:20
by oogiebe
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 10:43
"Vysotsky never fought as a pro."
Duh no kidding. That's only what this whole thread is pretty much all about.
I've got that Onetime troll on ignore. I only saw that because SV reposted it.
Why would you ignore OTO? Just because he doesn't agree with you? He's no troll. He has a lot of knowledge. He can be abrasive, but so can many other posters.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 12:24
by Ilya Muromets
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 12:25
by oogiebe
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 10:43
"Vysotsky never fought as a pro."
Duh no kidding. That's only what this whole thread is pretty much all about.
I've got that Onetime troll on ignore. I only saw that because SV reposted it.
Why would you ignore OTO? Just because he doesn't agree with you? He's no troll. He has a lot of knowledge. He can be abrasive, but so can many other posters.
Yes he was "abrasive". He was going on about me having multiple accounts, and I saw him saying the same thing to someone else. Some other stuff too. But OK I'll unignore him, just for you.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 10:43
"Vysotsky never fought as a pro."
Duh no kidding. That's only what this whole thread is pretty much all about.
I've got that Onetime troll on ignore. I only saw that because SV reposted it.
Why would you ignore OTO? Just because he doesn't agree with you? He's no troll. He has a lot of knowledge. He can be abrasive, but so can many other posters.
Yes he was "abrasive". He was going on about me having multiple accounts, and I saw him saying the same thing to someone else. Some other stuff too. But OK I'll unignore him, just for you.
Awww...what a nice guy! I was just curious. He's not one of my favorites, but it takes guys like him to provide all perspectives.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
You think he was a lot better than I do. He lost a lot of fights even in his prime, but they were fixed up with the judges and otherwise so that the record books say he "won" them. Start with the two Liston things and you can go on from there. My point is Vysotsky and Stevenson could have been champs. Yes they were "lifetime amateurs". They weren't allowed to become pros and compete with the US-UK fighters that are erroneously called "world" champs.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 10:43
"Vysotsky never fought as a pro."
Duh no kidding. That's only what this whole thread is pretty much all about.
I've got that Onetime troll on ignore. I only saw that because SV reposted it.
Why would you ignore OTO? Just because he doesn't agree with you? He's no troll. He has a lot of knowledge. He can be abrasive, but so can many other posters.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
You think he was a lot better than I do. He lost a lot of fights even in his prime, but they were fixed up with the judges and otherwise so that the record books say he "won" them. Start with the two Liston things and you can go on from there. My point is Vysotsky and Stevenson could have been champs. Yes they were "lifetime amateurs". They weren't allowed to become pros and compete with the US-UK fighters that are erroneously called "world" champs.
Just remember this; the amateur style doesn't usually transfer to the pros too well. It's a different game at he pro level. So all of this is pure speculation. There is no debate that both Vysotsky and Stevenson were great amateurs and (especially Stevenson) have been the source of great debate as to their chances against Ali. Ali had one loss in his prime (Frazier). Maybe the second Norton fight can be argued, but even when he fought Foreman, he was no longer Prime Ali.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 15:03
by Ambling Alp II
He was closer to his prime against Foreman than he was in the first Frazier fight.
Maybe the 1978 Ali loses to these guys. Who knows? We don't know have much of an idea about their chins and no idea about their stamina.
No way they would have any chance against Ali from the mid-1960s and they would most likely get beaten easily by the Ali of the early-mid 1970s.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 15:08
by oogiebe
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 15:03
He was closer to his prime against Foreman than he was in the first Frazier fight.
Maybe the 1978 Ali loses to these guys. Who knows? We don't know have much of an idea about their chins and no idea about their stamina.
No way they would have any chance against Ali from the mid-1960s and they would most likely get beaten easily by the Ali of the early-mid 1970s.
Agreed for the most part. He was more prepared when he fought Foreman than Frazier. Physically he was closer to prime vs Frazier. He just needed another fight or two in order to prepare, rather then what?...two fights? Bonevena and Quarry.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
You think he was a lot better than I do. He lost a lot of fights even in his prime, but they were fixed up with the judges and otherwise so that the record books say he "won" them. Start with the two Liston things and you can go on from there. My point is Vysotsky and Stevenson could have been champs. Yes they were "lifetime amateurs". They weren't allowed to become pros and compete with the US-UK fighters that are erroneously called "world" champs.
Just remember this; the amateur style doesn't usually transfer to the pros too well. It's a different game at he pro level. So all of this is pure speculation. There is no debate that both Vysotsky and Stevenson were great amateurs and (especially Stevenson) have been the source of great debate as to their chances against Ali. Ali had one loss in his prime (Frazier). Maybe the second Norton fight can be argued, but even when he fought Foreman, he was no longer Prime Ali.
As soon as Russian and eastern European fighters were allowed to turn pro they immediately showed just how well their amateur style transferred into the pros.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
You think he was a lot better than I do. He lost a lot of fights even in his prime, but they were fixed up with the judges and otherwise so that the record books say he "won" them. Start with the two Liston things and you can go on from there. My point is Vysotsky and Stevenson could have been champs. Yes they were "lifetime amateurs". They weren't allowed to become pros and compete with the US-UK fighters that are erroneously called "world" champs.
Just remember this; the amateur style doesn't usually transfer to the pros too well. It's a different game at he pro level. So all of this is pure speculation. There is no debate that both Vysotsky and Stevenson were great amateurs and (especially Stevenson) have been the source of great debate as to their chances against Ali. Ali had one loss in his prime (Frazier). Maybe the second Norton fight can be argued, but even when he fought Foreman, he was no longer Prime Ali.
As soon as Russian and eastern European fighters were allowed to turn pro they immediately showed just how well their amateur style transferred into the pros.
Yes, and their amateur styles changed. In the 70's the style was standing straight up (upright) and landing scoring blows. Once the boxers were allowed to turn pro, they had more pro styles in the ams. Those 70's and 80's guys would have had trouble transitioning. I said most and not all, so there were exceptions. Let's not start another cold war!
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
You think he was a lot better than I do. He lost a lot of fights even in his prime, but they were fixed up with the judges and otherwise so that the record books say he "won" them. Start with the two Liston things and you can go on from there. My point is Vysotsky and Stevenson could have been champs. Yes they were "lifetime amateurs". They weren't allowed to become pros and compete with the US-UK fighters that are erroneously called "world" champs.
Just remember this; the amateur style doesn't usually transfer to the pros too well. It's a different game at he pro level. So all of this is pure speculation. There is no debate that both Vysotsky and Stevenson were great amateurs and (especially Stevenson) have been the source of great debate as to their chances against Ali. Ali had one loss in his prime (Frazier). Maybe the second Norton fight can be argued, but even when he fought Foreman, he was no longer Prime Ali.
As soon as Russian and eastern European fighters were allowed to turn pro they immediately showed just how well their amateur style transferred into the pros.
This is not opinion it is factual. No sooner had the Eastern Europeans dissolved their political Union the boxers from those countries marched straight onto the international professional scene and began the strong showing we see today. Where would boxing be today without the Eastern Europeans? Conversely, where would boxing be today without the American boxers, or South American boxers? Do we lay hold that a great void exists without full participation from all parts of our world? This is not a contentious or debatable matter really.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 12:24
The Vysotsky - Ali exhibition occurred in Jun 1978, between Ali's two fights with Spinks.
Ali was old (36/37) and decrepit by then, even showing signs of parkinsons as well. Even just 3 years earlier, Ali would've mopped the ring with Leon.
You think he was a lot better than I do. He lost a lot of fights even in his prime, but they were fixed up with the judges and otherwise so that the record books say he "won" them. Start with the two Liston things and you can go on from there. My point is Vysotsky and Stevenson could have been champs. Yes they were "lifetime amateurs". They weren't allowed to become pros and compete with the US-UK fighters that are erroneously called "world" champs.
Just remember this; the amateur style doesn't usually transfer to the pros too well. It's a different game at he pro level. So all of this is pure speculation. There is no debate that both Vysotsky and Stevenson were great amateurs and (especially Stevenson) have been the source of great debate as to their chances against Ali. Ali had one loss in his prime (Frazier). Maybe the second Norton fight can be argued, but even when he fought Foreman, he was no longer Prime Ali.
As soon as Russian and eastern European fighters were allowed to turn pro they immediately showed just how well their amateur style transferred into the pros.
This is not opinion it is factual. No sooner had the Eastern Europeans dissolved their political Union the boxers from those countries marched straight onto the international professional scene and began the strong showing we see today. Where would boxing be today without the Eastern Europeans? Conversely, where would boxing be today without the American boxers, or South American boxers? Do we lay hold that a great void exists without full participation from all parts of our world? This is not a contentious or debatable matter really.
Polish heavy Andrew Golota was the first to hit the heavyweight scene. Riddick Bowe was considered to be the top heavy at the time and he thought Golota would be a joke, a staybusy tuneup fight. In fact Golota destroyed him twice, and probably reduced him to a semi vegetable - Golota was not a one punch knockout guy, but his heavy punches were cumulative. The fact that he managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory twice - accidentally or on purpose - the book has yet to be written on that guy - is another story - but Golota was just the first from the east.
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 08 Mar 2019, 23:52
by Ilya Muromets
"Let's not start another cold war!"
Capitalist imperialist Amerikanski running dog!
Ha ha only kidding!
Re: Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!
Posted: 09 Mar 2019, 10:31
by oogiebe
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑08 Mar 2019, 23:52"Let's not start another cold war!"
Capitalist imperialist Amerikanski running dog!
Ha ha only kidding!
LMFAO!!!! Commie bvstard! Nice to see a good sense of humor on the boards!
Nile4000 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2019, 16:39
Teo should be ashamed of himself. Imagine if Igor fought in Montreal. Maybe John Tate would have won the gold.
Page beat vysotsky
Yes, he did . As well as Angel Milian.
He lost by split decision to Page in a USA fight and we all know how honest boxing judges are in the USA, amateur and pro alike, especially to a big bad USSR Russian in the cold war. I never heard of Milian. Here is the only video bit I can find of Vysotsky vs. Stevenson:
