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Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 14:06
by ewenhay
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 14:02
I was responding to a claim about GGG being small, which compelled me to provide a set of stats proving that he was in fact “bigger” than most of his opponents’ (in height and also in terms of being a natural 160lb-er).
Myths keep getting perpetuated but no one bothers to verify their validity.
He's probably been taller than about 60% of his opponents being a mere half inch taller than the average himself
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 14:45
by jenko21
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 13:27
As far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever submitting offers and initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since his arrival on the world-scene during 2008 and I was also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to market the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.
I can’t help thinking that Tom Loeffler & HBO should have made more of an effort to initiate contract negotiations with some of these men that were active middleweights around the same time as Golovkin being world-rated:
• Andy Lee
• Anthony Mundine
• Arthur Abraham
• Daniel Geale (prime, not the shot version)
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Felix Sturm
• Jermain Taylor
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Miguel Cotto
• Peter Quillin
• Sam Soliman
• Sergio Martinez
• And there are probably a few names that I've forgotten about
If Team GGG tried to make these fights by making financial offers to these guys, but failed, because they couldn’t offer them enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".
However, I really doubt that Tom Loeffler even made the effort in the first place… since no one find any evidence to suggest otherwise, but I’m happy to be proven wrong about this.
And as I already stated earlier, it’s also a statistical fact that 16 of Golovkin’s 22 world title bouts were against men that competed in lower weight classes prior to their bout against the Kazakh.
The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. Only six of his opponents were an inch or more taller than himself and only two of them were included in The RING’s top-ten ratings (Daniel Jacobs and Martin Murray).
We know for certain that GGG has been competing at 165lbs as an amateur and 160lbs as a pro for more than sixteen years, which means he’s not a “small” middleweight.
Finally, the reason why I am disappointed about GGG failing to engage in bouts in other weight classes are three-fold:
• His team persistently boasted about Golovkin’s ability to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitats (from 154lbs to 175lbs)
• Other fighters he faced or criticised were willing to take the risk and jumped divisions
• Had he chosen to compete in bouts in other weight classes, then his resume would have been much stronger than it currently is
I stopped reading at Andy Lee and mundine. Why do you issist on carrying on with some retoric that is quite clearly wrong?
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 14:53
by boxing_rocks
greg wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 13:38
"The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. "
how critically important is that and what does it prove?
And how crazy does one need to be to decide calculating that average height? The guy is off his pills again.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 14:56
by oogiebe
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 14:53
And how crazy does one need to be to decide calculating that average height? The guy is off his pills again.
LMFAO!!! You always put it so perfectly!
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 15:06
by Enlightened-One
jenko21 wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 14:45
I stopped reading at Andy Lee and mundine. Why do you issist on carrying on with some retoric that is quite clearly wrong?
Telling me I’m “wrong” is not the same as actually “proving” it.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 15:08
by Enlightened-One
ewenhay wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 14:06
He's probably been taller than about 60% of his opponents being a mere half inch taller than the average himself
I actually provided a deeper analysis than that single sentence you quoted. And your percentage is inaccurate.
I proved, in a variety of ways, that Golovkin wasn’t small.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 15:10
by apollo creed
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 14:53
And how crazy does one need to be to decide calculating that average height? The guy is off his pills again.
EO would precisely measure and calculate every inch of every extremity of GGG's opponents to prove us on this forum that GGG fought short guys in every part of the human body.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 15:24
by apollo creed
jenko21 wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 14:45
I stopped reading at Andy Lee and mundine. Why do you issist on carrying on with some retoric that is quite clearly wrong?
User Datsue described very well this type of attention seeker-troll like E.O :
" Intelligent or not, he's a complete disingenuous arsehole who cloaks his own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that he's in fact impartial.
Yet watch him when it's someone he doesn't have a gaping wide-on for in the dock...!
It's like listening to one of those right-wing media types who thinks that saying the word "fact" can simply make inconvenient things that they don't like go away, & that if they keep thrashing things out in a long-winded convoluted fashion you'll lose sight of consensus reality & accept their Byzantine version of events that—despite their constant appeals to some sort of "objectivity"—is only supported by their opinions & their bullshit rhetoric. "
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and it's again close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 15:37
by Thomastearns
Ezzard wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 03:47
He's done enough and showed enough that I rank him as one of the best at 160 of my lifetime. I have him in the Hagler and Hopkins club. I wasn't old enough to remember Monzon.
Absolutely!
And just like Marvin he'll be more appreciated once he hangs up his gloves. GGG has had it tough as the perennial outsider, so it would be nice to see him go out as the A side.
Marvin never got that opportunity, and walked out of the sport in disgust. All of a sudden it began to dawn just what we had lost.
I'm sure Ray must have felt a little bit of guilt over the way it turned out, perhaps just a teensy weensy bit?
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and it's again close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 16:09
by apollo creed
Thomastearns wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 15:37
Absolutely!
And just like Marvin he'll be more appreciated once he hangs up his gloves. GGG has had it tough as the perennial outsider, so it would be nice to see him go out as the A side.
Marvin never got that opportunity, and walked out of the sport in disgust. All of a sudden it began to dawn just what we had lost.
I'm sure Ray must have felt a little bit of guilt over the way it turned out, perhaps just a teensy weensy bit?
Indeed GGG put a great effort to accomplish all these big things in his career especially for a fighter from a far, less known country. Imagine GGG being a native mexican, american or british.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and it's again close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 16:29
by greg
apollo creed wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 16:09
Indeed GGG put a great effort to accomplish all these big things in his career especially for a fighter from a far, less known country. Imagine GGG being a native mexican, american or british.
..true dat! I guess some critics are just not getting it..took GGG a lot of time and effort getting to where he is...he probably got hold of the first promoter available having no chance to choose...getting to the top, screwed as expected and having to start all over again..compare that to all the other "legends" boxing out of their backyards..
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 20 Apr 2019, 20:11
by Cyclops
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 15:08
I actually provided a deeper analysis than that single sentence you quoted. And your percentage is inaccurate.
I proved, in a variety of ways, that Golovkin wasn’t small.
Just out of curiosity, has anybody met him? 5'10" isn't exactly short. A lot of people when they meet high level boxers are surprised by how big a human they are to squeeze into their weight class. Is he a bit of unit considering he makes 160?
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and it's again close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 01:38
by apollo creed
greg wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 16:29
..true dat! I guess some critics are just not getting it..took GGG a lot of time and effort getting to where he is...he probably got hold of the first promoter available having no chance to choose...getting to the top, screwed as expected and having to start all over again..compare that to all the other "legends" boxing out of their backyards..
Yup. GGG had a lot of obstacles during his career but the dedication and the talent he had/s strived to be successful in the end. He is a role model for the next generations of fighters and he showed that if you work hard enough and win every fight , in the end you will succeed.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 01:55
by apollo creed
clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 20:11
Just out of curiosity, has anybody met him?
5'10" isn't exactly short. A lot of people when they meet high level boxers are surprised by how big a human they are to squeeze into their weight class. Is he a bit of unit considering he makes 160?
GGG is a normal sized 160 pounder. There are super ww that are bigger than GGG, height, reach and frame wise like:
Jarrett Hurd-h6′ 1″ /r76½″ ;
Munguia-6′ 0″ and
Tony Harrison-h6′ 1″/r76½″ and also 160 pounders like
Jacobs-h5′ 11½″/r73″ ;
Jermall-h6′ 0″/r73½″ and
Andrade-h6′ 1/r73½″. So it's pointless to bring in discussion GGG's size when the other super ww's and 160 pounders are bigger compared with GGG.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 06:17
by Enlightened-One
apollo creed wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 01:55GGG is a normal sized 160 pounder.
Didn't you previously argue that GGG was only a small middleweight (or at least defend similar claims made by others relating to his lack of size at 160lbs)? Have I finally managed to change your mind!
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 09:24
by NateJR
There's no doubt that GGG is the beat MW since Hopkins. Did he beat Canelo? In the first fight, arguably but not without a doubt.. in the second fight, I felt Canelo won rather clearly limiting GGG to landing mostly jabs throughout the fight while Canelo racked up points with the more eye catching power shots, while also coming forward for most the fight walking down the boogie man.
I think GGG even in his prime and Canelo at Canelos current form would have always been a close fight. Even now I think GGG keeps it competitive and close enough that the deluded GGG fans will claim he won even he clearly lost.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 12:09
by apollo creed
NateJR wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 09:24
There's no doubt that GGG is the beat MW since Hopkins. Did he beat Canelo? In the first fight, arguably but not without a doubt.. in the second fight, I felt Canelo won rather clearly limiting GGG to landing mostly jabs throughout the fight while Canelo racked up points with the more eye catching power shots, while also coming forward for most the fight walking down the boogie man.
I think GGG even in his prime and Canelo at Canelos current form would have always been a close fight. Even now I think GGG keeps it competitive and close enough that the deluded GGG fans will claim he won even he clearly lost.
Probably but there is no doubt in my mind that the 2015 version of Canelo that fought Cotto for
'the lineal mw title' would've been
clearly beaten by the 2015 version of GGG that stopped Lemieux.
There was a serious reson why Canelo waited a few years to fight GGG.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 12:24
by Onetimeonly
apollo creed wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 04:22
I think in the history of boxing GGG would be ranked and seen higher than Canelo because the truth is that a 35y/o GGG beat a 26y/o protected and 'enhanced' Canelo. And of course not only because of that performance but also because of the dominance and the fear that he spread in his prime time that made the other 'champs' to avoid him.
Canelo has a much better resume and he's still compiling it.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 12:45
by boxing_rocks
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:24
Canelo has a much better resume and he's still compiling it.
Canelo should have at least 3 losses on his resume. His resume is fraud.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 12:55
by Onetimeonly
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:45
Canelo should have at least 3 losses on his resume. His resume is fraud.
Losses happen. I thought Lara and trout edged him and GGG clearly won the first fight. None of them were bad losses and the first two weren't bad decisions.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 13:29
by apollo creed
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:45
Canelo should have at least 3 losses on his resume. His resume is fraud.
Just think about it. If that judge had it 114-114 in the FMJ fight in Vegas which was a clearly shut down in Floyd's favor, imagine how hard it would be for someone to win a decision against Canelo. Realistically it has to be someone with phenomenal power and timing to KTFO Canelo and win against him.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 13:32
by oogiebe
apollo creed wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 13:29
Just think about it. If that judge had it 114-114 in the FMJ fight in Vegas which was a clearly shut down in Floyd's favor, imagine how hard it would be for someone to win a decision against Canelo. Realistically it has to be someone with phenomenal power and timing to KTFO Canelo and win against him.
Or deeper pockets than Canelo backers! LOL!
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 13:32
by apollo creed
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:55
Losses happen. I thought
Lara and trout edged him and
GGG clearly won the first fight. None of them were bad losses and the first two weren't bad decisions.
Both should've been MD wins for Lara and GGG.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 13:33
by Onetimeonly
He's got a granite chin. Shocking because cottos brother rocked him. Only time I've seen him seriously hurt.
Re: If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talen
Posted: 21 Apr 2019, 14:45
by apollo creed
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 13:33
He's got a granite chin. Shocking because cottos brother rocked him. Only time I've seen him seriously hurt.
Yeah but the current Canelo is a totally different animal. He's very experienced and strong like an ox. Very hard to seriously hurt him, let alone drop or stop him.