BoxRec

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 03:50**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Oct 2019, 19:46
ValMar wrote: ↑19 Oct 2019, 16:22 What do you predict ?
Beterbiev is with Top Rank.

Canelo is with DAZN.

Canelo has lots of lucrative options with DAZN.

There’s no compelling business reason for Canelo to engage in cross-promotional/cross-network bouts.

This is not (for me, at least) business issue, Canelo has already earned for three lives, this is about pride and legacy.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 05:59**

I dont think so. That guys are just too big and strong. No matter if he win or lose against Kovalev, he should go down to 160 or 168 looking for challenges there.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 09:35**

I hope he won't

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 12:31**

ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 03:50
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑19 Oct 2019, 19:46
Beterbiev is with Top Rank.

Canelo is with DAZN.

Canelo has lots of lucrative options with DAZN.

There’s no compelling business reason for Canelo to engage in cross-promotional/cross-network bouts.
This is not (for me, at least) business issue, Canelo has already earned for three lives, this is about pride and legacy.

Someone living a lavish lifestyle won’t be able to pay the bills with “pride and legacy.”

And there are other people within his team and other business partners that will be heavily-involved in career decisions either with or on behalf of Canelo, with a view to maximising financial generation.

It’s extremely naive to expect fighters, their teams, managers, promoters, TV networks and other business partners to willingly accept pay cuts in order to please a small minority of fight fans.

DAZN have heavily-invested, spending hundreds of millions of dollars, in recruiting a sizeable stable of fighters. They’re not going to allow Canelo to face Top Rank or PBC guys unless mega-money is involved.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 13:32**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 12:31
ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 03:50

This is not (for me, at least) business issue, Canelo has already earned for three lives, this is about pride and legacy.
Someone living a lavish lifestyle won’t be able to pay the bills with “pride and legacy.”

And there are other people within his team and other business partners that will be heavily-involved in career decisions either with or on behalf of Canelo, with a view to maximising financial generation.

It’s extremely naive to expect fighters, their teams, managers, promoters, TV networks and other business partners to willingly accept pay cuts in order to please a small minority of fight fans.

DAZN have heavily-invested, spending hundreds of millions of dollars, in recruiting a sizeable stable of fighters. They’re not going to allow Canelo to face Top Rank or PBC guys unless mega-money is involved.

It would be naive to expect that mega-money would not be involved in this fight.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 14:16**

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Oct 2019, 18:09 I don't expect canelo to fight at 75 again for a few years. If he does, no reason to think he wouldn't fight him.

And that cheapens the sport, IMO. Cherry-pick the easiest belt, so your delusional Mex-American fan base has an idol faux-conquering a strong division. Job done, drop belt and have a send off fight for retirement. Don't think Canelo intends to stay around much longer and definitely doesn't have Beterbiev in his plans. That'd just be dumb at this point.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 14:30**

Blodhemn wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 14:16
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Oct 2019, 18:09 I don't expect canelo to fight at 75 again for a few years. If he does, no reason to think he wouldn't fight him.
And that cheapens the sport, IMO. Cherry-pick the easiest belt, so your delusional Mex-American fan base has an idol faux-conquering a strong division. Job done, drop belt and have a send off fight for retirement. Don't think Canelo intends to stay around much longer and definitely doesn't have Beterbiev in his plans. That'd just be dumb at this point.

One division - one champion.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 14:33**

ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 13:32
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 12:31
Someone living a lavish lifestyle won’t be able to pay the bills with “pride and legacy.”

And there are other people within his team and other business partners that will be heavily-involved in career decisions either with or on behalf of Canelo, with a view to maximising financial generation.

It’s extremely naive to expect fighters, their teams, managers, promoters, TV networks and other business partners to willingly accept pay cuts in order to please a small minority of fight fans.

DAZN have heavily-invested, spending hundreds of millions of dollars, in recruiting a sizeable stable of fighters. They’re not going to allow Canelo to face Top Rank or PBC guys unless mega-money is involved.
It would be naive to expect that mega-money would not be involved in this fight.

Are you seriously claiming that Beterbiev is a big-name fighter?

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 15:01**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 14:33
ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 13:32

It would be naive to expect that mega-money would not be involved in this fight.
Are you seriously claiming that Beterbiev is a big-name fighter?

No, but how many "big names" there are beyond HW ? No more than 10. How many "big names " Canelo fought ? No more than 5. During the last five years (maybe more) every Canelo's fight was very lucrative, but he did not face only "big names".
I did not intend to discuss (in this thread) about business side, but I think you have neglected two facts. 1. Russia's population is very large (about 145 mill.) plus some countries in neigbourhood (let us say Belarus or Kazakhstan).
I suppose you can imagine this would be a "very big money" in the game for TV networks.
2. There are several super-wealthy Arabian countries, and their leaders would support this fight with mega-offers.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 15:54**

Blodhemn wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 14:16
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Oct 2019, 18:09 I don't expect canelo to fight at 75 again for a few years. If he does, no reason to think he wouldn't fight him.
And that cheapens the sport, IMO. Cherry-pick the easiest belt, so your delusional Mex-American fan base has an idol faux-conquering a strong division. Job done, drop belt and have a send off fight for retirement. Don't think Canelo intends to stay around much longer and definitely doesn't have Beterbiev in his plans. That'd just be dumb at this point.

He'll be around for that contract. Another 8 fights or so. I don't have a problem with it. Hearns and Leonard did it. It's not like kovalev is a bum.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 18:42**

ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 15:01
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 14:33
Are you seriously claiming that Beterbiev is a big-name fighter?
No, but how many "big names" there are beyond HW ? No more than 10. How many "big names " Canelo fought ? No more than 5. During the last five years (maybe more) every Canelo's fight was very lucrative, but he did not face only "big names".
I did not intend to discuss (in this thread) about business side, but I think you have neglected two facts. 1. Russia's population is very large (about 145 mill.) plus some countries in neigbourhood (let us say Belarus or Kazakhstan).
I suppose you can imagine this would be a "very big money" in the game for TV networks.
2. There are several super-wealthy Arabian countries, and their leaders would support this fight with mega-offers.

With Betebiev being watched and supported by Kadyrov, there is no doubt that money would be on the table if Canelo wanted to fight.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 18:55**

Re: Will Canelo fIght Beterbiev by the end of 2021 ?

NO

He has the luxury of carefully selecting his opponents in his weight range, and seems to prefer guys at the end of their career.
I predicted he would avoid Andrade and Charlo at the weight he was at. Who TF knows what he will do. I am one of the many that don't care.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 22:07**

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 15:54

He'll be around for that contract. Another 8 fights or so. I don't have a problem with it. Hearns and Leonard did it. It's not like kovalev is a bum.

Yeah, boxing just has that sleazy snake oil thing about it. Seems to have more in common with politics than wrestling. Think I'd care less about shadiness if it leaned more toward the latter and went full on freak show. As it is, boxing has this weird, almost pretentious seriousness - remember when PBC had all the fighters in suits or some shit? Lol - fck that gaudy sleaze.

Yeah, Kovalev is no bum, but he's only got 4 rounds of danger in him. Canelo is good enough to last that. Hell, all he has to do is survive and at least 1 judge gives it to him. That political thing rearing it's head again.

Posted: **20 Oct 2019, 23:40**

175 is popping right now look at it.
Kovalev
Bivol
Beterbiev
Canelo
Ramirez
Gvozdyk
Alvarez
Yarde
You could easily match up that lot and get a good fight.

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 10:15**

ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 15:01
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 14:33
Are you seriously claiming that Beterbiev is a big-name fighter?
No, but how many "big names" there are beyond HW ? No more than 10. How many "big names " Canelo fought ? No more than 5. During the last five years (maybe more) every Canelo's fight was very lucrative, but he did not face only "big names".
I did not intend to discuss (in this thread) about business side, but I think you have neglected two facts. 1. Russia's population is very large (about 145 mill.) plus some countries in neigbourhood (let us say Belarus or Kazakhstan).
I suppose you can imagine this would be a "very big money" in the game for TV networks.
2. There are several super-wealthy Arabian countries, and their leaders would support this fight with mega-offers.

I’m not sure how it’s possible to explain the reason I feel that Beterbiev isn’t a considered a commercially “big name”, whilst refraining from discussing the business side of boxing, which is somehing you said you didn't really want to discuss.

The only thing I will say, is that if boxing was a really lucrative sport in countries from the former Soviet Union, then we wouldn’t see so many fighters from that region competing on US shores.

In terms of the Arabian countries, very few marquee bouts have been staged in that geographical region. And I can’t see any reason why Canelo would agree to face Beterbiev anywhere other than the US or Mexico.

Canelo is capable of engaging in more lucrative bouts against fellow DAZN stablemates than the monies he’d receive facing Beterbiev.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Canelo face Artur Beterbiev, but if the Mexican faces the same version of the plodding Russian that fought Kölling and Johnson, then I’d expect I’d expect a comfortable and quick victory for the often despised DAZN/GBP fighter.

Beterbiev lacks head movement, his work-rate is too low, he loads-up on his punches, his hands aren’t particularly fast, he blocks shots using a high guard rather than avoid them using footwork/upper body movement, he's been dropped and staggered on multiple occasions etc.

Artur Beterbiev’s style is tailor-made for Canelo.

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 12:20**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 10:15
ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 15:01

No, but how many "big names" there are beyond HW ? No more than 10. How many "big names " Canelo fought ? No more than 5. During the last five years (maybe more) every Canelo's fight was very lucrative, but he did not face only "big names".
I did not intend to discuss (in this thread) about business side, but I think you have neglected two facts. 1. Russia's population is very large (about 145 mill.) plus some countries in neigbourhood (let us say Belarus or Kazakhstan).
I suppose you can imagine this would be a "very big money" in the game for TV networks.
2. There are several super-wealthy Arabian countries, and their leaders would support this fight with mega-offers.
I’m not sure how it’s possible to explain the reason I feel that Beterbiev isn’t a considered a commercially “big name”, whilst refraining from discussing the business side of boxing, which is somehing you said you didn't really want to discuss.

The only thing I will say, is that if boxing was a really lucrative sport in countries from the former Soviet Union, then we wouldn’t see so many fighters from that region competing on US shores.

In terms of the Arabian countries, very few marquee bouts have been staged in that geographical region. And I can’t see any reason why Canelo would agree to face Beterbiev anywhere other than the US or Mexico.

Canelo is capable of engaging in more lucrative bouts against fellow DAZN stablemates than the monies he’d receive facing Beterbiev.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Canelo face Artur Beterbiev, but if the Mexican faces the same version of the plodding Russian that fought Kölling and Johnson, then I’d expect I’d expect a comfortable and quick victory for the often despised DAZN/GBP fighter.

Beterbiev lacks head movement, his work-rate is too low, he loads-up on his punches, his hands aren’t particularly fast, he blocks shots using a high guard rather than avoid them using footwork/upper body movement, he's been dropped and staggered on multiple occasions etc.

Artur Beterbiev’s style is tailor-made for Canelo.

If Canelo beats Kovalev, and faces Beterbiev after that, he will be remembered among the boxing fans all over the world as a genuine warrior. Right now he is considered as a great fighter, but about 50% of fans think that he is a cherry-picker beloved/supported by the judges.
I think that you tend to underestimate Eastern Europe and Arabian market potential. BTW, Joshua and Ruiz will fight in an Arabian country soon, and I can not imagine the better spectacle in the world of boxing right now.

I may partly agree with you about AB's flaws, but he is dropped only once as a pro, as I now, and I can not remember his staggerings at all. You did not mention his punch power, his stamina and strength.

Last, but not least, I don't think Canelo should continue his career at LHW. I suppose it is very difficult to him to make weight for MW, but I think the SMW is a perfect weight division for him.

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 13:20**

'Prize fighters, not pride fighters'

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 17:59**

Funny to hear that Beterbiev is tailor made for Canelo. The same way, he was tailor made for Gvozdyk.

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:05**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 10:15
ValMar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2019, 15:01

No, but how many "big names" there are beyond HW ? No more than 10. How many "big names " Canelo fought ? No more than 5. During the last five years (maybe more) every Canelo's fight was very lucrative, but he did not face only "big names".
I did not intend to discuss (in this thread) about business side, but I think you have neglected two facts. 1. Russia's population is very large (about 145 mill.) plus some countries in neigbourhood (let us say Belarus or Kazakhstan).
I suppose you can imagine this would be a "very big money" in the game for TV networks.
2. There are several super-wealthy Arabian countries, and their leaders would support this fight with mega-offers.
I’m not sure how it’s possible to explain the reason I feel that Beterbiev isn’t a considered a commercially “big name”, whilst refraining from discussing the business side of boxing, which is somehing you said you didn't really want to discuss.

The only thing I will say, is that if boxing was a really lucrative sport in countries from the former Soviet Union, then we wouldn’t see so many fighters from that region competing on US shores.

In terms of the Arabian countries, very few marquee bouts have been staged in that geographical region. And I can’t see any reason why Canelo would agree to face Beterbiev anywhere other than the US or Mexico.

Canelo is capable of engaging in more lucrative bouts against fellow DAZN stablemates than the monies he’d receive facing Beterbiev.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Canelo face Artur Beterbiev, but if the Mexican faces the same version of the plodding Russian that fought Kölling and Johnson, then I’d expect I’d expect a comfortable and quick victory for the often despised DAZN/GBP fighter.

Beterbiev lacks head movement, his work-rate is too low, he loads-up on his punches, his hands aren’t particularly fast, he blocks shots using a high guard rather than avoid them using footwork/upper body movement, he's been dropped and staggered on multiple occasions etc.

Artur Beterbiev’s style is tailor-made for Canelo.

Would you favour any LHW over Canelo? If you think Canelo is elite LHW quality, how do you think he'd do at cruiser?

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:06**

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 17:59 Funny to hear that Beterbiev is tailor made for Canelo. The same way, he was tailor made for Gvozdyk.

I notice for many people that Canelo, though failing to stop pretty much every meaningful opponent of his career from 154-160, has now become a hypothetical KO king at 175. Or maybe just these Russian LHWs are wimps

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:10**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 18:06
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 17:59 Funny to hear that Beterbiev is tailor made for Canelo. The same way, he was tailor made for Gvozdyk.
I notice for many people that Canelo, though failing to stop pretty much every meaningful opponent of his career from 154-160, has now become a hypothetical KO king at 175. Or maybe just these Russian LHWs are wimps

He can beat Kov if he fights a perfect fight AND the feelings about Kov being susceptible to the body are true. The more I think about it, the more I doubt Canelo can compete successfully at LHW. Beterbiev would beat him down.

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:12**

I wonder, if Canelo can lay out Kov and Bert and be an elite LHW, why not go to cruiser and then beat top guys there? Surely you've got to give him a shout to do that

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:14**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 18:12 I wonder, if Canelo can lay out Kov and Bert and be an elite LHW, why not go to cruiser and then beat top guys there? Surely you've got to give him a shout to do that

I'll bow down and kiss his sombrero.

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:31**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 18:12 I wonder, if Canelo can lay out Kov and Bert and be an elite LHW, why not go to cruiser and then beat top guys there? Surely you've got to give him a shout to do that

That Dorticos sucker is tailor made for Canelo and so is Briedis

Posted: **21 Oct 2019, 18:34**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 18:06
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑21 Oct 2019, 17:59 Funny to hear that Beterbiev is tailor made for Canelo. The same way, he was tailor made for Gvozdyk.
maybe just these Russian LHWs are wimps

He is Chechen, representative of a nation which created big problems for Russian army multiple times in history. Real wimp!