BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 08:03

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 07:49

Lewis became undisputed champion in 1999. The WBO wasn't a major belt, nor was the IBC or IBO or WBF or any other. Lewis becoming undisputed champion was worldwide news, whether or not you missed it.

Who do you think was heavyweight champion when Joe Louis was heavyweight champion?

Ultimately you're not the arbiter of the boxing record book, and I question whether you own or have ever read one. You obviously don't understand how they work. You also don't understand the word "reign" as you think two seperate reigns can count as a reign. The fact is Wladimir Klitschko is not the longest reigning heavyweight champion. I'm not cherry picking your post, the thread and other points don't interest me, I'm just pointing out that Louis is longest reigning.

There's a difference between being the main man, the best fighter in the division, and technically holding one of the world title belts.

I’ve already conveyed this point, but you’ve ignored it.

Anyway, the WBO world heavyweight title was moderately prestigious, since the likes of Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer, Tommy Morrison, Riddick Bowe and Vitali Klitschko had all previously held the belt prior to Wlad’s reign.

You keep saying I “don’t understand” this… and I “don’t understand” that but does the same principle apply to the entire world?

Even BoxRec states that “Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history.”

The amount of prestige one applies to such an accomplishment is clearly subjective in nature, given the context of the feat itself, but this is definitely a real-world fact. It's technically true.

If you disagree with me, Google my claim and send a message to the publishers of all the articles available on the internet that make the very same claims, telling them they also “don’t understand how things work”.

And to remind you, because I’m not sure of your reading comprehension (as I keep having to repeat myself)… even if you disagree with me, Wlad is at least the second longest-reigning heavyweight champion of all-time. And that’s no mean feat!

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 10:39 You said, and I quote, "Lewis was the unified not the undisputed champion."

Lewis was the undisputed champion. Perhaps you should send a group email to the global press that reported him as such in 1999, and inform them that Herbie Hide held the WBO title. They may issue a correction.

Can you name an undisputed champion in any division who also held the WBO belt at the same time, prior to Bernard Hopkins in 2004? Just one will suffice.

Listing Mercer, Moorer and Bowe as WBO champs doesn't elevate its standing, as they all vacated the belt to pursue a fight for the actual heavyweight title.

Have no issue with stating Klitschko was the second longest reigning champion. But you wrote that he was "the longest reigning champion," without any sort of qualification.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 11:30

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 10:39 You said, and I quote, "Lewis was the unified not the undisputed champion."

Lewis was the undisputed champion. Perhaps you should send a group email to the global press that reported him as such in 1999, and inform them that Herbie Hide held the WBO title. They may issue a correction.

Can you name an undisputed champion in any division who also held the WBO belt at the same time, prior to Bernard Hopkins in 2004? Just one will suffice.

Listing Mercer, Moorer and Bowe as WBO champs doesn't elevate its standing, as they all vacated the belt to pursue a fight for the actual heavyweight title.

Have no issue with stating Klitschko was the second longest reigning champion. But you wrote that he was "the longest reigning champion," without any sort of qualification.

Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

These are real-world facts. You can't pretend that any of the above details are inaccurate. And I have recently posted this information to this forum, so it’s wrong to accuse me of making no attempt to qualify my claims, since I'd already done it a couple of days ago.

It's interesting to note that I've addressed your comments head-on, but you’ve not been as courteous, since you’ve ignored mine. I have even had to repeat myself by reiterating the same explanations multiple times.

I’ve always maintained that Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history.

Even if we abide by YOUR rules, by excluding Wlad’s WBO title reign, he’s still the second longest reigning world heavyweight champion in history.

So I won’t indulge in your insistence to change the topic and comment on anything else, because all you’ll keep doing is moving the goalposts.

I listed 24 separate facts about Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko’s resumes, with each and every single one of them being factually accurate, but you chose to attack one single claim that I have already justified and defended on numerous occasions.

Wladimir Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history! End of story!

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 11:57Wladimir has spent more days as a champion

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:00

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 11:57Wladimir has spent more days as a champion

At last, we agree on something! That is precisely what I have kept saying over-and-over again!

If you’d read my words, the same ones I kept repeating, you would have realised this.

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:19

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:00
At last, we agree on something! That is precisely what I have kept saying over-and-over again!

If you’d read my words, the same ones I kept repeating, you would have realised this.

No, you didn't.

You kept insisting Wladimir had had a longer reign than Joe Louis, while repeatedly using the term "real world"... blah, blah, blah...

Joe Louis is still the longest reigning champion. You still don't understand this.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:25

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:19

No, you didn't.

You kept insisting Wladimir had had a longer reign than Joe Louis, while repeatedly using the term "real world"... blah, blah, blah...

Joe Louis is still the longest reigning champion. You still don't understand this.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Please send a nasty email to all the media sources that convey the very same claims I did.

In fact, you can start the ball rolling by complaining to the head honchos at BoxRec.

I've got bored of this discussion. I've answered everything you've asked me to and I don't want to keep going round in circles by repeating myself over-and-over again.

Enjoy your weekend my friend.

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:38

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:25
Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Please send a nasty email to all the media sources that convey the very same claims I did.

In fact, you can start the ball rolling by complaining to the head honchos at BoxRec.

I've got bored of this discussion. I've answered everything you've asked me to and I don't want to keep going round in circles by repeating myself over-and-over again.

Enjoy your weekend my friend.

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

thunderking500 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 02:26 how do you rate his title reign compared to Wlad's.. is his legacy at the moment on the same level as Wlad's?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:45

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:38

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

"Intellectually-dishonest debate tactics"

Badgering - This is repeating the same intellectually-dishonest debate tactic again and again in an attempt to wear out the opponent. There seems to be an implicit notion that if you say the same incorrect thing over and over enough times, that makes it true or that by saying it enough times you can make an incorrect statement have more weight in the debate. Toddler children are big on this.

There is a Latin phrase for this: Argumentum ad nauseam.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:45

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 12:38

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

"Intellectually-dishonest debate tactics"

Badgering - This is repeating the same intellectually-dishonest debate tactic again and again in an attempt to wear out the opponent. There seems to be an implicit notion that if you say the same incorrect thing over and over enough times, that makes it true or that by saying it enough times you can make an incorrect statement have more weight in the debate. Toddler children are big on this.

There is a Latin phrase for this: Argumentum ad nauseam.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

thunderking500 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 13:09 who wins h2h

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 13:20”Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history...”

But go on, tell me who is being "dishonest".

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:25

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 13:20”Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history...”

But go on, tell me who is being "dishonest".

Did you read what you actually wrote?

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:28

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:25
Did you read what you actually wrote?

You are being dishonest here EO. You quoted the man out of context to suit your own needs. Tsk tsk...

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:29

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:28
You are being dishonest here EO. You quoted the man out of context to suit your own needs. Tsk tsk...

I quote his words verbatim.

He either wrote it or he didn’t. Well what’s it to be?

Be honest, can you read... and if so, did he write that sentence word-for-word?

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:35

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:29

I quote his words verbatim.

He either wrote it or he didn’t. Well what’s it to be?

Be honest, can you read... and if so, did he write that sentence word-for-word?

We all saw what his ENTIRE post read and the point he's been making. You are doing exactly what you posted before about not debating honestly. You do this a lot and this time is one of the worst.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:36

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:35
We all saw what his ENTIRE post read and the point he's been making. You are doing exactly what you posted before about not debating honestly. You do this a lot and this time is one of the worst.

Is this factually correct or not and did I not previously quote his thoughts word-for-word?

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days


Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:39

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 17:36
Is this factually correct or not and did I not previously quote his thoughts word-for-word?

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days


Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

Sorry son, this was bad play even for you. You know it. The previous poster was talking length of reign and not days as champ. Two very different things. Then you took his post out of context to suit your own needs. Very poor play.

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 13:20From Boxrec's own profile on Wladimir Klitschko...

"Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history...