There are only rules related to The RING champion. There aren’t any about contenders.margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Apr 2020, 19:37 Not much tbh, haven't been up to date with the ring for a bit. I know of Fury's case but thought they had different standards for their champs and allowed a longer window of inactivity
Exactly!
Good post. Whilst his record relatively shallow he's only lost once (officially) and that was against the guy who is the best in the division by some distancePerseus wrote: ↑03 Apr 2020, 16:46 Not a sham.
The Wilder skill set and the career he has had thus far says over achiever who exceeded expectations.
The first few times I saw him I thought he would get beat the first time he faced someone slightly better than a club-fighter and had no chance at ever becoming a legit top 5 in his division.
Hell I thought Kelvin Price would beat him.............................................then that right hand landed.
Eventually we learned that despite all the flaws the power is real.
A lot of his opponents were/are better technical boxers but can't deal with the Wilder right hand.
When Wilder finally did get beat it wasn't a journeyman who did it, it wasn't a fringe contender or fading veteran who finally put an "L" on his record.
It was the top heavyweight in the division.
You think Joshua is the top heavyweight?
OK, it was at worst the second best heavyweight.
What did it take to defeat Wilder?
A far better boxer who showed up in shape and still brings a 40+ lbs weight advantage into the ring with him. He is also undefeated, has a legit claim as the lineal champ and seems to be on a career path that will lead to the hall of fame.
There is no shame in losing to that guy.
He showed everybody else how to beat Wilder?
Yeah, if they can deal with his punch. At 6' 9" with a 40+ lbs weight advantage(that is not a result of just being fat) he can deal with the power.
An opponent who doesn't have that size advantage isn't going to be able to bully Wilder or deal with the power.
Fury showed what HE can do not what everybody else can do. If every decent heavyweight could do that to Wilder he never would have got to Fury. Heavyweights not named Tyson Fury will have to find a different way to beat Wilder.
Wilder was supposed to lose spectacularly the first time he faced someone with a pulse but kept winning until he faced the best in the division.
Not a sham.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 22:08 I guess I'd ask , a sham by what standard? Because I mean like Wilder has largely been ragged on by boxing fans for years and acknowledged that his opposition has been pretty weak. You aren't getting many saying he's that good or anything, Sham seems more fitting for a guy who we were sucking off and hyping who turned out to be way below that
I think that is a fair assessmentOnetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 16:49margaret thatcher wrote: ↑02 Apr 2020, 22:08 I guess I'd ask , a sham by what standard? Because I mean like Wilder has largely been ragged on by boxing fans for years and acknowledged that his opposition has been pretty weak. You aren't getting many saying he's that good or anything, Sham seems more fitting for a guy who we were sucking off and hyping who turned out to be way below that
If you're talking to someone telling you is a legend you could overreact and call him a sham, but I'd bet he'd be top 25 in any era.
I myself am often critical of Joshua on this forum, but that post is an absolute dumpster fire of nonsense.Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 12:47 Now you are blaming Wilder for not fighting against AJ?
That's both of their problem, not Wilder's only.
AJ: We will fight at England and with reality contracts. (70/30 or 60/40 for me)
Wilder: We will fight at USA, or we will fight with 50/50 at England.
AJ: f**** off, I have 4 belts I won more money, keep your WBC belt to yourself
None of them agreed, there are 2 major belts; WBC and WBA. And Wilder had one of them, IBF and WBO are not so important.
So you can also blame AJ for not fighting with Wilder for years and not taking the WBC belt as well. At some point, you need to accept the unfair conditions to be something greater; such as being the undisputed champ since Ali, Tyson, Holyfied and Lewis.
But that's both AJ's and Wilder's fault that we never see one, instead of both of them fought people like Dominic Breazeale.
AJ should've accept Wilder's offer for one time only, and then take his belt then you can decide the conditions all you want. It wouldn't hurt to earn a little less money for one time in exchange of being the undisputed champ for a change. You're already a millionaire, but you are not the undisputed champ.
He didn't do that, instead he got his ass kicked by Ruiz, then he f**** up his schedule very bad, he wasted half year for fighting against Ruiz again, and then he needed vacate one of his precious belts (IBF) or he needs to fight someone like Pulev (another waste of time) so he can keep the useless IBF belt.
I would never understand AJ's mentality, no one cares about IBF or WBO... You need to prove that you can take down a reigning champion first, and you never did that, all you did was winning the vacated belts, just like Wilder did.
If you think Wilder purposely ducked AJ and he didn't fight him so he could stay as WBC's champion, well that's also AJ's problem, he should have take the belt by accepting Wilder's conditions, so Wilder couldn't duck again after losing the belt in the future, even if we assume that Wilder wanted to duck.
Wilder wasn't the owner of a petty belt like IBO, IBF or WBO, he had a major belt, and if you can't get it from him, that's also your problem. You need to take it from him one way or another, this is not like ducking a challenger, this is a belt fight that you don't have.
Instead we watched Eddie Hearn, asking people on the streets that ''do you know Deontay Wilder?'' , ''oh you don't know him?'' ''see this is why we don't fight and accept Wilder's conditions''.... Lmao...
Eddie, your boy didn't have the WBC belt, no one f**** cares about that, stop fooling around and make the fight. But they didn't. They both f***** up.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, Fury accepted Wilder's conditions, and he fought with him twice in USA, first he won but he got robbed, he didn't cry and he never made that a big problem while he could've easily and no one would say anything about it, then what he did? Ok, if you have a biased judge, then I will knock your ass in USA and no judge will save your ass again, that's exactly what Fury did. That's how you can be the undisputed champion, winning under unfair conditions without whinning about the contracts or the biased judges.
I am %100 million percent sure that even if AJ would accepted Wilder's offer (he wouldn't anyway) to fight in USA with 50/50 contract, and if AJ got robbed by a biased judge and leave the fight with a draw, then he would cry about it all the time and he would never fight with Wilder in USA with 50/50 contract again.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, no crying, no making excuses, just old school ass whooping and winning the belt.
LOLH8Usernames wrote: ↑01 Apr 2020, 11:25 Wilder is going to dominate Fury worse in the third fight than Fury dominated Wilder in the second.
It looks like you didn't read my post because I was talking about Wilder's past career, not right now.Finkel wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 22:35I myself am often critical of Joshua on this forum, but that post is an absolute dumpster fire of nonsense.Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 12:47 Now you are blaming Wilder for not fighting against AJ?
That's both of their problem, not Wilder's only.
AJ: We will fight at England and with reality contracts. (70/30 or 60/40 for me)
Wilder: We will fight at USA, or we will fight with 50/50 at England.
AJ: f**** off, I have 4 belts I won more money, keep your WBC belt to yourself
None of them agreed, there are 2 major belts; WBC and WBA. And Wilder had one of them, IBF and WBO are not so important.
So you can also blame AJ for not fighting with Wilder for years and not taking the WBC belt as well. At some point, you need to accept the unfair conditions to be something greater; such as being the undisputed champ since Ali, Tyson, Holyfied and Lewis.
But that's both AJ's and Wilder's fault that we never see one, instead of both of them fought people like Dominic Breazeale.
AJ should've accept Wilder's offer for one time only, and then take his belt then you can decide the conditions all you want. It wouldn't hurt to earn a little less money for one time in exchange of being the undisputed champ for a change. You're already a millionaire, but you are not the undisputed champ.
He didn't do that, instead he got his ass kicked by Ruiz, then he f**** up his schedule very bad, he wasted half year for fighting against Ruiz again, and then he needed vacate one of his precious belts (IBF) or he needs to fight someone like Pulev (another waste of time) so he can keep the useless IBF belt.
I would never understand AJ's mentality, no one cares about IBF or WBO... You need to prove that you can take down a reigning champion first, and you never did that, all you did was winning the vacated belts, just like Wilder did.
If you think Wilder purposely ducked AJ and he didn't fight him so he could stay as WBC's champion, well that's also AJ's problem, he should have take the belt by accepting Wilder's conditions, so Wilder couldn't duck again after losing the belt in the future, even if we assume that Wilder wanted to duck.
Wilder wasn't the owner of a petty belt like IBO, IBF or WBO, he had a major belt, and if you can't get it from him, that's also your problem. You need to take it from him one way or another, this is not like ducking a challenger, this is a belt fight that you don't have.
Instead we watched Eddie Hearn, asking people on the streets that ''do you know Deontay Wilder?'' , ''oh you don't know him?'' ''see this is why we don't fight and accept Wilder's conditions''.... Lmao...
Eddie, your boy didn't have the WBC belt, no one f**** cares about that, stop fooling around and make the fight. But they didn't. They both f***** up.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, Fury accepted Wilder's conditions, and he fought with him twice in USA, first he won but he got robbed, he didn't cry and he never made that a big problem while he could've easily and no one would say anything about it, then what he did? Ok, if you have a biased judge, then I will knock your ass in USA and no judge will save your ass again, that's exactly what Fury did. That's how you can be the undisputed champion, winning under unfair conditions without whinning about the contracts or the biased judges.
I am %100 million percent sure that even if AJ would accepted Wilder's offer (he wouldn't anyway) to fight in USA with 50/50 contract, and if AJ got robbed by a biased judge and leave the fight with a draw, then he would cry about it all the time and he would never fight with Wilder in USA with 50/50 contract again.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, no crying, no making excuses, just old school ass whooping and winning the belt.
Wilder doesn't even have the WBC title, and he is still blocking the undisputed fight.
No one outside of Wilder's deluded hardcore fans actively wants to see the third Fury fight next.
It's always been about positioning Wilder to make as much money as possible in an undisputed fight. And it all came crashing down like a house of cards. Lou Dibella must be laughing his tits off.
Schadenfreude It's a hell of a thing
+1margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020, 22:31 He's not a sham, but for 10+ defenses, 40+ knockouts, there is little depth of quality wins. Stiv and Breazeale may well be in his top 3 opponents beaten. Beating Ort was good though. His career has been more quantity than quality, but still been a top 3 HW for several years now and he did also get a draw first time vs Fury
He surpassed my expectations from when he was coming up with so many awful opponents
Joshua did beat 2 reigning champions (granted one was a bit sh!t) and the vacant belt he won was against the best heavyweight of the previous decade.Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 12:47 Now you are blaming Wilder for not fighting against AJ?
That's both of their problem, not Wilder's only.
AJ: We will fight at England and with reality contracts. (70/30 or 60/40 for me)
Wilder: We will fight at USA, or we will fight with 50/50 at England.
AJ: f**** off, I have 4 belts I won more money, keep your WBC belt to yourself
None of them agreed, there are 2 major belts; WBC and WBA. And Wilder had one of them, IBF and WBO are not so important.
So you can also blame AJ for not fighting with Wilder for years and not taking the WBC belt as well. At some point, you need to accept the unfair conditions to be something greater; such as being the undisputed champ since Ali, Tyson, Holyfied and Lewis.
But that's both AJ's and Wilder's fault that we never see one, instead of both of them fought people like Dominic Breazeale.
AJ should've accept Wilder's offer for one time only, and then take his belt then you can decide the conditions all you want. It wouldn't hurt to earn a little less money for one time in exchange of being the undisputed champ for a change. You're already a millionaire, but you are not the undisputed champ.
He didn't do that, instead he got his ass kicked by Ruiz, then he f**** up his schedule very bad, he wasted half year for fighting against Ruiz again, and then he needed vacate one of his precious belts (IBF) or he needs to fight someone like Pulev (another waste of time) so he can keep the useless IBF belt.
I would never understand AJ's mentality, no one cares about IBF or WBO... You need to prove that you can take down a reigning champion first, and you never did that, all you did was winning the vacated belts, just like Wilder did.
If you think Wilder purposely ducked AJ and he didn't fight him so he could stay as WBC's champion, well that's also AJ's problem, he should have take the belt by accepting Wilder's conditions, so Wilder couldn't duck again after losing the belt in the future, even if we assume that Wilder wanted to duck.
Wilder wasn't the owner of a petty belt like IBO, IBF or WBO, he had a major belt, and if you can't get it from him, that's also your problem. You need to take it from him one way or another, this is not like ducking a challenger, this is a belt fight that you don't have.
Instead we watched Eddie Hearn, asking people on the streets that ''do you know Deontay Wilder?'' , ''oh you don't know him?'' ''see this is why we don't fight and accept Wilder's conditions''.... Lmao...
Eddie, your boy didn't have the WBC belt, no one f**** cares about that, stop fooling around and make the fight. But they didn't. They both f***** up.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, Fury accepted Wilder's conditions, and he fought with him twice in USA, first he won but he got robbed, he didn't cry and he never made that a big problem while he could've easily and no one would say anything about it, then what he did? Ok, if you have a biased judge, then I will knock your ass in USA and no judge will save your ass again, that's exactly what Fury did. That's how you can be the undisputed champion, winning under unfair conditions without whinning about the contracts or the biased judges.
I am %100 million percent sure that even if AJ would accepted Wilder's offer (he wouldn't anyway) to fight in USA with 50/50 contract, and if AJ got robbed by a biased judge and leave the fight with a draw, then he would cry about it all the time and he would never fight with Wilder in USA with 50/50 contract again.
That's the difference between Fury and AJ, no crying, no making excuses, just old school ass whooping and winning the belt.
I read it, unfortunately.Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 07:18It looks like you didn't read my post because I was talking about Wilder's past career, not right now.Finkel wrote: ↑04 Apr 2020, 22:35
I myself am often critical of Joshua on this forum, but that post is an absolute dumpster fire of nonsense.
Wilder doesn't even have the WBC title, and he is still blocking the undisputed fight.
No one outside of Wilder's deluded hardcore fans actively wants to see the third Fury fight next.
It's always been about positioning Wilder to make as much money as possible in an undisputed fight. And it all came crashing down like a house of cards. Lou Dibella must be laughing his tits off.
Schadenfreude It's a hell of a thing
No career is a sham, unless it had fixed fights. Wilder was very carefully managed, and used drug tests as his weapon to postpone matches with Ortiz until he was too old, and to side step Povektin all together.thunderking500 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020, 21:14 his reign, title run whatever you call it. He was a protected fighter, his resume is one of the worst if not the worst from any title holder in the HW division in a long time.
he only fought 5 top 10 guys... Stiverne first time, Old ass Ortiz twice and Fury twice. (actually don't think Fury was even ranked for the first fight) and Ortiz was essentially schooling him in both fights until he got tired. and of course got schooled by Fury, arguably twice.The only elite fighter he has ever fought
Remember that the first Fury fight was a cherry pick, Wilder knew Fury had 3 years ring rust coming from depression, drug addiction, 400lbs and looked like poo in his two comeback fights. allegedly had to literally call/convince Shelly Finkel that Fury was "done" and coming for one last pay day. His career seems like it can easily be described as manufactured
No career is a sham, unless it had fixed fights. Wilder was very carefully managed, and used drug tests as his weapon to postpone matches with Ortiz until he was too old, and to side step Povektin all together.thunderking500 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020, 21:14 his reign, title run whatever you call it. He was a protected fighter, his resume is one of the worst if not the worst from any title holder in the HW division in a long time.
he only fought 5 top 10 guys... Stiverne first time, Old ass Ortiz twice and Fury twice. (actually don't think Fury was even ranked for the first fight) and Ortiz was essentially schooling him in both fights until he got tired. and of course got schooled by Fury, arguably twice.The only elite fighter he has ever fought
Remember that the first Fury fight was a cherry pick, Wilder knew Fury had 3 years ring rust coming from depression, drug addiction, 400lbs and looked like poo in his two comeback fights. allegedly had to literally call/convince Shelly Finkel that Fury was "done" and coming for one last pay day. His career seems like it can easily be described as manufactured
What constitutes fixing a fight? Is there a spectrum?pound per pound wrote: ↑05 Apr 2020, 09:40No career is a sham, unless it had fixed fights. Wilder was very carefully managed, and used drug tests as his weapon to postpone matches with Ortiz until he was too old, and to side step Povektin all together.thunderking500 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2020, 21:14 his reign, title run whatever you call it. He was a protected fighter, his resume is one of the worst if not the worst from any title holder in the HW division in a long time.
he only fought 5 top 10 guys... Stiverne first time, Old ass Ortiz twice and Fury twice. (actually don't think Fury was even ranked for the first fight) and Ortiz was essentially schooling him in both fights until he got tired. and of course got schooled by Fury, arguably twice.The only elite fighter he has ever fought
Remember that the first Fury fight was a cherry pick, Wilder knew Fury had 3 years ring rust coming from depression, drug addiction, 400lbs and looked like poo in his two comeback fights. allegedly had to literally call/convince Shelly Finkel that Fury was "done" and coming for one last pay day. His career seems like it can easily be described as manufactured
If Jerry Cooney didn't fight Larry Holmes and picked on the un-ranked for title defenses, he might have had a career like Wilder.