Page 2 of 2
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 12:22
by margaret thatcher
You can still make educated guesses based on their styles, strengths, who they had issues with and who they didn't etc
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 14:15
by Ambling Alp II
DrDuke wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 11:18
That's what it is. Your are telling here and there about ancient Klitschko, while talking about the latest stage of his career. But suddenly that's an invalid evaluation, cause Klitschko didn't end his career, as fighter often do - way past it. He retired, when he was still there.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 11:00
Let me get this straight, Klitscho was some sort of great opponent when Joshua beat him?
Of course, he was.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 11:00
I'm supposed to ignore that Klitschko was 41 when Joshua scored this big win.
Ignore that Klitscho barely threw 20 punches a round against Joshua.
I'm supposed to ignore that Klitschko looked horrible in his previous fight against Fury.
Guess I should ignore that klitschko had not a fight in 17 months?
Ignore that Klitschko had trouble with the great Bryant Jennings in the fight before Fury?
Ignore that Klitschko had a glass jaw?
I'm also apparently supposed to:
Ignore that Joshua got decked by the senior citizen.
Pretend that Klitschko was comparable to a prime Larry Holmes?
Assume that since Joshua managed to go 1-1 against the legendary Diaz, and this version of Klitschko, that he would be able to handle Earnie Shavers? Probably the hardest puncher in the history of the sport who throws a helluva lot more than 20 punches a round.
Who needs this bullshit? Styles make fights. Klitschko was in shape and well-prepared, when he faced Joshua. Shavers wouldn't throw even 20 punches at Klitschko, cause he wouldn't be at his fighting distance, his "hardest punch in the history" wouldn't be even loaded to be thrown. However, all that doesn't mean, that Joshua of Klitschko fight would have more chances vs Shavers, than Joshua of the 2nd Ruiz fight. Styles make fights and Shavers' style is worthless against a tall and rangy boxer, who can use his height and range.
Klitscho was great when he fought Joshua. Throwing 20 punches a round at the end of his career. A glass jaw in his prime. He was far, far from a great fighter. You have to be pretty desperate to count that as a big win for Joshua. Bit I guess that is what you have to do when you have nothing else.
Sahvers would even get in fight distance? Please. He isn't going to keep him away for long.
always love the styles make fights line. (i.e pick what works for your guy and ignore everything else.)
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 14:20
by Ambling Alp II
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 12:22
You can still make educated guesses based on their styles, strengths, who they had issues with and who they didn't etc
With Sahvers we have a lot to go on. Sometimes he got it done, sometimes he didn't. He has some impressive fights and some not so impressive fights. .
What do we have with Joshua? He has no big wins, at all. A great fighter (or even a very good one) would have had less trouble against Klitschko. He has the embarrassing loss to Diaz.
So no big wins and an embarrassing loss.
I will take the guy who did it sometimes over the guy the guy who has never done it yet.
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 14:21
by margaret thatcher
Diaz
So is that a resume based pick based on grading wins and losses, or you going on how they match up in ability, style, consistency, etc.
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 14:22
by DrDuke
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 14:15
Klitscho was great when he fought Joshua. Throwing 20 punches a round at the end of his career. A glass jaw in his prime. He was far, far from a great fighter. You have to be pretty desperate to count that as a big win for Joshua. Bit I guess that is what you have to do when you have nothing else.
Sahvers would even get in fight distance? Please. He isn't going to keep him away for long.
always love the styles make fights line. (i.e pick what works for your guy and ignore everything else.)
Klitschko obviously was a great fighter. No shaverses would handle him. Only in a lucky case of miraculously getting to his shaky chin. And styles make fights, that's the truth. Seems not for ya though, cause you always love the oldie. (i.e pick an oldie and ignore everything else.)
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 14:27
by margaret thatcher
The 'so and so never fought anyone like him' card is just resumes and doesn't fly for me when there are like 4-5 guys lesser than AJ who beat Shavers. Based on what they brought to the ring and not just on paper I can see the case for both, though I think AJ had more to work with and certainly enough power to stop Shavers, Shavers could obviously fold AJ but he isn't the only guy who can score a KO
That's why Shavers is interesting to me for hypotheticals, you can really see how it could go both ways a lot of the time, though I do think he was generally lacking overall as a fighter compared to most top hws and that in most cases they are getting to him more and first, and that he wasnt particularly durable
Re: Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 16:10
by Ambling Alp II
Yeh, I don't think this is a done deal at all. With Shavers, a lot of different things can happen. the truth is we don't really know how good Joshua is. If his next fight was against Fury or Wilder we would have a better idea. Doesn't look like that is going to happen. The little we have to go on is not impressive.
You certainly can find things to criticize Shavers for. the loss to Stallings, the Quarry fight etc. However, this is also a guy who has wins over Ellis, Young, Norton, Bugner etc. Shavers was a guy who put on a lot of pressure and who was of course a brutal puncher. You gotta show me something before I would pick a guy over him.