Ernie Shavers vs Anthony Joshua

[margaret thatcher]

Winner?

[Woldemar]

AJ by UD or late TKO.

[DrDuke]

Joshua would deal with Shavers like with Ruiz in their 2nd bout. Acknowledging the fact of the opponent's huge punching power, Joshua would cautiously outbox him from the distance.

[Ambling Alp II]

Joshua never fought anyone remotely like this. Seriously doubt he would take the fight. Shavers certainly had his weaknesses, he more than likely would stop Joshua by the mid-rounds.

[margaret thatcher]

Bruh, this is the mythical fights forum, they all take the fight

[DrDuke]

Joshua never fought anyone remotely like this. Seriously doubt he would take the fight. Shavers certainly had his weaknesses, he more than likely would stop Joshua by the mid-rounds.

So, are you telling, that Shavers is better, than anyone Joshua fought?

[margaret thatcher]

Shavers is an interesting one of mythical fights, cause you can say stuff like 'they never faced power like that', but at the same time you can point out several losses or super tough fights Shavers had vs opponents lesser than the guy he's being matched with (though I'm sure to some a guy like Bob Stallings or Mercardo or Quarry would've been a long term hw king in recent decades lol)

So it doesn't really work with those types of quick shortcuts, gotta look at how the dudes match up

[Ambling Alp II]

Joshua never fought anyone remotely like this. Seriously doubt he would take the fight. Shavers certainly had his weaknesses, he more than likely would stop Joshua by the mid-rounds.

So, are you telling, that Shavers is better, than anyone Joshua fought?

That would be a hell yes.
So far his biggest win was over a senior citizen with a glass jaw. Even in that one he struggled and got decked.

[DrDuke]

So, are you telling, that Shavers is better, than anyone Joshua fought?

That would be a hell yes.
So far his biggest win was over a senior citizen with a glass jaw. Even in that one he struggled and got decked.

How on earth Shavers is better, than Klitschko?

[Ambling Alp II]

Shavers is an interesting one of mythical fights, cause you can say stuff like 'they never faced power like that', but at the same time you can point out several losses or super tough fights Shavers had vs opponents lesser than the guy he's being matched with (though I'm sure to some a guy like Bob Stallings or Mercardo or Quarry would've been a long term hw king in recent decades lol)

So it doesn't really work with those types of quick shortcuts, gotta look at how the dudes match up

It's not a shortcut. I was just pointing out that Joshua has never fought anyone remotely like Shavers. that is the truth. Shavers was a dangerous opponent. He certainly was not the most consistent guy and he had been weaknesses as well as great strengths.
Yes the Stallings fight was embarrassing. He was getting up there when he fought Mercado. Yes, I do think Quarry would have won a paper title had he fought in more recent times.
You have a lot to go on with Shavers. Take a look at his opponents. Ellis, Ali, Holmes (2x) Norton, Lyle, Young, Williams, Quarry, Bugner etc. These guys were all in their prime when these fights happened, but you still have a lot to go on. Sometimes he got it done, sometimes he didn't.
Joshua is unproven. He has no big wins and an embarrassing loss.
In these situations, I go with the guy who sometimes got it done over the guy who has never got it done, yet.

[Ambling Alp II]

That would be a hell yes.
So far his biggest win was over a senior citizen with a glass jaw. Even in that one he struggled and got decked.

How on earth Shavers is better, than Klitschko?

Well for starters, the version of Klitschko that fought Joshua was ancient. He wouldn't have got past the 3rd round against Shavers. It would have been a brutal KO defeat if he was fighting Shavers.

[DrDuke]

How on earth Shavers is better, than Klitschko?

Well for starters, the version of Klitschko that fought Joshua was ancient. He wouldn't have got past the 3rd round against Shavers. It would have been a brutal KO defeat if he was fighting Shavers.

Klitschko was in tremendous shape for Joshua bout. Have you ever watched the bout? Cause it looks like you just watched Klitschko's birth date on boxrec. How Shavers would KO him in the 3rd FFS? Klitschko would provide a Holmes fight for Ernie. The question would only be, if Shavers would be able to get to Klitschko after a one-sided bashing of him from the distance.

[oogiebe]

Well for starters, the version of Klitschko that fought Joshua was ancient. He wouldn't have got past the 3rd round against Shavers. It would have been a brutal KO defeat if he was fighting Shavers.

Klitschko was in tremendous shape for Joshua bout. Have you ever watched the bout? Cause it looks like you just watched Klitschko's birth date on boxrec. How Shavers would KO him in the 3rd FFS? Klitschko would provide a Holmes fight for Ernie. The question would only be, if Shavers would be able to get to Klitschko after a one-sided bashing of him from the distance.

IF Shavers got to holmes, he would get to Wlad. Difference is that Wlad wouldn't get up.

AJ has the tools to beat Shavers. But just like Wlad, he needs to not get hit by a bomb. I think AJ has the better chin over Wlad.

[Ambling Alp II]

A better chin that Wlad? That is a strong statement.
I dunno. He got decked by a 41-year old. He got stopped by Diaz. Not much to inspire confidence that he would take a good shot by Shavers.

[oogiebe]

A better chin that Wlad? That is a strong statement.
I dunno. He got decked by a 41-year old. He got stopped by Diaz. Not much to inspire confidence that he would take a good shot by Shavers.

He hasn't been counted out and has been knocked down by Wlad who is one of hte best punchers even at his older age. Ruiz put him down several times but the first one AJ never recovered from. So far, I'd say AJ looks to have the better whiskers.

[DrDuke]

Klitschko was in tremendous shape for Joshua bout. Have you ever watched the bout? Cause it looks like you just watched Klitschko's birth date on boxrec. How Shavers would KO him in the 3rd FFS? Klitschko would provide a Holmes fight for Ernie. The question would only be, if Shavers would be able to get to Klitschko after a one-sided bashing of him from the distance.

IF Shavers got to holmes, he would get to Wlad. Difference is that Wlad wouldn't get up.

AJ has the tools to beat Shavers. But just like Wlad, he needs to not get hit by a bomb. I think AJ has the better chin over Wlad.

Now let's count the amount of rounds of two fights, after which Shavers got to Holmes. I won't say, that there was such a big difference between Holmes and Wlad, that Shavers would get to Wlad in three, like Alpy suggests.

[DrDuke]

A better chin that Wlad? That is a strong statement.
I dunno. He got decked by a 41-year old. He got stopped by Diaz. Not much to inspire confidence that he would take a good shot by Shavers.

Stop repeating this number of 41 and go watch the fight already.

Go watch Joshua-Ruiz too, then you'll probably see, that there was Ruiz, not Diaz.

[Ambling Alp II]

It was a classic. Even better than Fury-Klitschko. Klitschko looked awesome in that one. Obviously a huge win for Joshua to beat the ancient glassjaw while only getting decked once.
Obviously Klitschko was very similar to a prime Larry Holmes.

[DrDuke]

It was a classic. Even better than Fury-Klitschko. Klitschko looked awesome in that one. Obviously a huge win for Joshua to beat the ancient glassjaw while only getting decked once.
Obviously Klitschko was very similar to a prime Larry Holmes.

That's right, continue to repeat your wacky mantra.

[Ambling Alp II]

"wacky mantra"?

Let me get this straight, Klitscho was some sort of great opponent when Joshua beat him?
Just ignore all the evidence to the contrary and assume that Joshua could handle Shavers?

I'm supposed to ignore that Klitschko was 41 when Joshua scored this big win.
Ignore that Klitscho barely threw 20 punches a round against Joshua.
I'm supposed to ignore that Klitschko looked horrible in his previous fight against Fury.
Guess I should ignore that klitschko had not a fight in 17 months?
Ignore that Klitschko had trouble with the great Bryant Jennings in the fight before Fury?
Ignore that Klitschko had a glass jaw?

I'm also apparently supposed to:
Ignore that Joshua got decked by the senior citizen.
Pretend that Klitschko was comparable to a prime Larry Holmes?
Assume that since Joshua managed to go 1-1 against the legendary Diaz, and this version of Klitschko, that he would be able to handle Earnie Shavers? Probably the hardest puncher in the history of the sport who throws a helluva lot more than 20 punches a round.

Wow.

[DrDuke]

"wacky mantra"?

That's what it is. Your are telling here and there about ancient Klitschko, while talking about the latest stage of his career. But suddenly that's an invalid evaluation, cause Klitschko didn't end his career, as fighter often do - way past it. He retired, when he was still there.

Let me get this straight, Klitscho was some sort of great opponent when Joshua beat him?

Of course, he was.

I'm supposed to ignore that Klitschko was 41 when Joshua scored this big win.
Ignore that Klitscho barely threw 20 punches a round against Joshua.
I'm supposed to ignore that Klitschko looked horrible in his previous fight against Fury.
Guess I should ignore that klitschko had not a fight in 17 months?
Ignore that Klitschko had trouble with the great Bryant Jennings in the fight before Fury?
Ignore that Klitschko had a glass jaw?

I'm also apparently supposed to:
Ignore that Joshua got decked by the senior citizen.
Pretend that Klitschko was comparable to a prime Larry Holmes?
Assume that since Joshua managed to go 1-1 against the legendary Diaz, and this version of Klitschko, that he would be able to handle Earnie Shavers? Probably the hardest puncher in the history of the sport who throws a helluva lot more than 20 punches a round.

Who needs this bullshit? Styles make fights. Klitschko was in shape and well-prepared, when he faced Joshua. Shavers wouldn't throw even 20 punches at Klitschko, cause he wouldn't be at his fighting distance, his "hardest punch in the history" wouldn't be even loaded to be thrown. However, all that doesn't mean, that Joshua of Klitschko fight would have more chances vs Shavers, than Joshua of the 2nd Ruiz fight. Styles make fights and Shavers' style is worthless against a tall and rangy boxer, who can use his height and range.

[margaret thatcher]

Klitschko was in tremendous shape for Joshua bout. Have you ever watched the bout? Cause it looks like you just watched Klitschko's birth date on boxrec. How Shavers would KO him in the 3rd FFS? Klitschko would provide a Holmes fight for Ernie. The question would only be, if Shavers would be able to get to Klitschko after a one-sided bashing of him from the distance.

IF Shavers got to holmes, he would get to Wlad. Difference is that Wlad wouldn't get up.

AJ has the tools to beat Shavers. But just like Wlad, he needs to not get hit by a bomb. I think AJ has the better chin over Wlad.

Shavers wasn't consistent though, you can say 'if he got to Holmes he'd get to Mercado/Stallings/Quarry/Cobb' etc too, but they all beat him, ranging from 1st round blowout to decision and 3 by stoppage

[oogiebe]

IF Shavers got to holmes, he would get to Wlad. Difference is that Wlad wouldn't get up.

AJ has the tools to beat Shavers. But just like Wlad, he needs to not get hit by a bomb. I think AJ has the better chin over Wlad.

Shavers wasn't consistent though, you can say 'if he got to Holmes he'd get to Mercado/Stallings/Quarry/Cobb' etc too, but they all beat him, ranging from 1st round blowout to decision and 3 by stoppage

No he wasn't. But I'm assuming the OP means "best of" ES vs best of...or didn't you?

[margaret thatcher]

I say in their prime stretches (not necessarily on their very best night), but inconsistency is not something to erase when it's part of who a fighter was, if you do that you have sort of a phony inflated version

[oogiebe]

I say in their prime stretches (not necessarily on their very best night), but inconsistency is not something to erase when it's part of who a fighter was

If that is the case, then there is no answer as we have no idea which of the fighters shows up. End of.