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Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 19 Jul 2020, 17:23
by elmersalsa
pound per pound wrote: ↑19 Jul 2020, 13:51
Duran's best stuff was at light weight. While his win over Leonard was huge that night, he's not beating Tommy Hearns at Welter Weight.
What make you think that? The Hitman's legs were a liability at welterweight.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 21 Jul 2020, 13:06
by Nile4000
But that right cross was not.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 21 Jul 2020, 13:48
by harrygreb
Roberto duran is a greater fighter than ray leonard. no doubt. I often hear ray being called the complete boxer. in my view Roberto is more, has more, of almost everything that ray had, except maybe flashiness and hand speed, but RD had enough speed in those stony fists to make them very tough to avoid. check out the cuevas win. duran has never been overrated.
we are lucky to have seen this man grace our sport.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 21 Jul 2020, 17:05
by Ambling Alp II
Duran was just a wonderful human being. Clean fighter, good winner, gracious loser, never made excuses, never quit.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 21 Jul 2020, 17:42
by Nile4000
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑21 Jul 2020, 17:05
Duran was just a wonderful human being. Clean fighter, good winner, gracious loser, never made excuses, never quit.
You may want to check that last one Alp lol. I think that a prime Cuevas could have given Duran fits, but still a good competitive fight.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 15:55
by Ambling Alp II
I was kidding about all of them, not just the never quit.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 17:04
by elmersalsa
Nile4000 wrote: ↑21 Jul 2020, 13:06
But that right cross was not.
It did not work against Sugar Ray? That was at welterweight. So Ray got a better chin than Duran?
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 17:04
by elmersalsa
harrygreb wrote: ↑21 Jul 2020, 13:48
Roberto duran is a greater fighter than ray leonard. no doubt. I often hear ray being called the complete boxer. in my view Roberto is more, has more, of almost everything that ray had, except maybe flashiness and hand speed, but RD had enough speed in those stony fists to make them very tough to avoid. check out the cuevas win. duran has never been overrated.
we are lucky to have seen this man grace our sport.
Yo, man!
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 23:02
by Nile4000
elmersalsa wrote: ↑22 Jul 2020, 17:04
Nile4000 wrote: ↑21 Jul 2020, 13:06
But that right cross was not.
It did not work against Sugar Ray? That was at welterweight. So Ray got a better chin than Duran?
I think so, at least at welterweight.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 24 Jul 2020, 12:16
by elmersalsa
Nile4000 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2020, 23:02
elmersalsa wrote: ↑22 Jul 2020, 17:04
Nile4000 wrote: ↑21 Jul 2020, 13:06
But that right cross was not.
It did not work against Sugar Ray? That was at welterweight. So Ray got a better chin than Duran?
I think so, at least at welterweight.
So, what happened to Sugar Ray when Duran almost knock him out in rounds 2 to 4 in Montreal? Was not Duran with the better chin then?
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 27 Jul 2020, 15:32
by Nile4000
elmersalsa wrote: ↑24 Jul 2020, 12:16
Nile4000 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2020, 23:02
elmersalsa wrote: ↑22 Jul 2020, 17:04
It did not work against Sugar Ray? That was at welterweight. So Ray got a better chin than Duran?
I think so, at least at welterweight.
So, what happened to Sugar Ray when Duran almost knock him out in rounds 2 to 4 in Montreal? Was not Duran with the better chin then?
No. He didn't put Ray down. Ray handled it like a G.
.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 27 Jul 2020, 17:51
by Seamus
That was the night Duran kicked Leonard's ass so bad that the NY Times and Ferdie Pacheco scored it for Sugar Ray.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 08:05
by Onetimeonly
Nobody ever accused Pacheco of knowing what he was talking about.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 08:41
by Ambling Alp II
It was a competitive fight though. Duran certainly didn't clearly win 8 rounds. It was not the beat down that elmer and others on occasion have made it out to be. There were many rounds that were hard to judge. In many rounds, Duran landed more punches, but Leonard landed more clean punches.
This fight was at least close as Hagler-Leonard.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 10:46
by Duran1970
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 08:05
Nobody ever accused Pacheco of knowing what he was talking about.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 13:00
by Onetimeonly
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 08:41
It was a competitive fight though. Duran certainly didn't clearly win 8 rounds. It was not the beat down that elmer and others on occasion have made it out to be. There were many rounds that were hard to judge. In many rounds, Duran landed more punches, but Leonard landed more clean punches.
This fight was at least close as Hagler-Leonard.
Two close fights with clear winners. Leonard closed the gap in Montreal closing with his two best rds but he got beat up.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 13:25
by Nile4000
Seamus wrote: ↑27 Jul 2020, 17:51
That was the night Duran kicked Leonard's ass so bad that the NY Times and Ferdie Pacheco scored it for Sugar Ray.
As well as Emanuel Stewart.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 14:40
by elmersalsa
Nile4000 wrote: ↑27 Jul 2020, 15:32
elmersalsa wrote: ↑24 Jul 2020, 12:16
Nile4000 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2020, 23:02
I think so, at least at welterweight.
So, what happened to Sugar Ray when Duran almost knock him out in rounds 2 to 4 in Montreal? Was not Duran with the better chin then?
No. He didn't put Ray down. Ray handled it like a G.
.
I saw him in bad shape in those rounds.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 14:43
by elmersalsa
Seamus wrote: ↑27 Jul 2020, 17:51
That was the night Duran kicked Leonard's ass so bad that the NY Times and Ferdie Pacheco scored it for Sugar Ray.
Ferdie Pacheco and The NY Times were more biased for Sugar Ray than Howard Cossell. At least Cossell gave Duran some more credit.
I have never seen someone more biased than Pacheco.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 14:45
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 08:41
It was a competitive fight though. Duran certainly didn't clearly win 8 rounds. It was not the beat down that elmer and others on occasion have made it out to be. There were many rounds that were hard to judge. In many rounds, Duran landed more punches, but Leonard landed more clean punches.
This fight was at least close as Hagler-Leonard.
Close fight my ass! Duran whupped him. End of story. The American media didn't want to admit the ass whupping. That fight was not close at all.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 14:52
by Nile4000
elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 14:40
Nile4000 wrote: ↑27 Jul 2020, 15:32
elmersalsa wrote: ↑24 Jul 2020, 12:16
So, what happened to Sugar Ray when Duran almost knock him out in rounds 2 to 4 in Montreal? Was not Duran with the better chin then?
No. He didn't put Ray down. Ray handled it like a G.
.
I saw him in bad shape in those rounds.
He was. But he took the punishment.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 15:38
by Seamus
Put it another way, if SRL had gotten a UD in Montreal, it's not like it would even be considered for the top 100 worst decisions of alltime.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 15:45
by Ambling Alp II
elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 14:45
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 08:41
It was a competitive fight though. Duran certainly didn't clearly win 8 rounds. It was not the beat down that elmer and others on occasion have made it out to be. There were many rounds that were hard to judge. In many rounds, Duran landed more punches, but Leonard landed more clean punches.
This fight was at least close as Hagler-Leonard.
Close fight my ass! Duran whupped him. End of story. The American media didn't want to admit the ass whupping. That fight was not close at all.
And I will answer as I have before. you yourself only had Duran winning by three points. You have shown that math is not your thing, (among other things) but 3 points is not that much.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 15:48
by Ambling Alp II
Seamus wrote: ↑28 Jul 2020, 15:38
Put it another way, if SRL had gotten a UD in Montreal, it's not like it would even be considered for the top 100 worst decisions of alltime.
Agree. If you give Leonard a lot of the close rounds, you certainly could give him the fight. (Of course if you give them all to Duran and he wins by a more comfortable margin)
There were a lot rounds that were difficult to score; many more than in a typical fight.
Re: The Brawl in Montreal: 40 Years Later
Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 15:55
by margaret thatcher
Anyone here have Ray winning? Didn't read all the posts...
Or yall just arguing over scoring in a fight all the judges and all yall scored for Robby