BoxRec

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:45**

Povetkin for me is the best HW ever, who wasn't able to win a HW championship. Excellent skills, helluva resume, a career longevity. Yes, he was WBA Regular champion, but that strap is a paper sh1t obviously.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:48**

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:43 If Gerry Cooney had fought Mike Weaver instead he won the WBA title

Nino Valdes, Joe Baksi, Larry Gains (beat Primo Carnera and KO'd Max Schemeling...) and in the lighter weights, I could be all day naming them Howard Davis, Bernard Taylor (he was mustard) Johnny Clark, Dave Sands etc etc.

Golota was a good fighter but he would mentally give up, like when he fought Mike Tyson - didn't he get done for impersonating a police officer in the Illinois countryside?

It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:50**

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:42
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:39
oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:37 Have to say, :Povetkin deserves a mention as best HW non-champion.
If you don't count alphabet titles, then yes he'd be in the conversation. He was a WBA Champion though. Twice I think.
I don't count belts where there is a more substantial belt available. Regular belt...LMFAO! I can't stand that, but that's a discussion for other threads.

And I understand that argument completely. Yes if he's not considered a Champion, he's definitely one of the all time Top contenders. He's had an excellent career.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:51**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:43 If Gerry Cooney had fought Mike Weaver instead he won the WBA title

Nino Valdes, Joe Baksi, Larry Gains (beat Primo Carnera and KO'd Max Schemeling...) and in the lighter weights, I could be all day naming them Howard Davis, Bernard Taylor (he was mustard) Johnny Clark, Dave Sands etc etc.

Golota was a good fighter but he would mentally give up, like when he fought Mike Tyson - didn't he get done for impersonating a police officer in the Illinois countryside?
It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.

And when he quit vs Grant?

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:53**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:43 If Gerry Cooney had fought Mike Weaver instead he won the WBA title

Nino Valdes, Joe Baksi, Larry Gains (beat Primo Carnera and KO'd Max Schemeling...) and in the lighter weights, I could be all day naming them Howard Davis, Bernard Taylor (he was mustard) Johnny Clark, Dave Sands etc etc.

Golota was a good fighter but he would mentally give up, like when he fought Mike Tyson - didn't he get done for impersonating a police officer in the Illinois countryside?
It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.

Well, there you go then, he isn't the best non-champion ever in boxing.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:56**

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:51
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:43 If Gerry Cooney had fought Mike Weaver instead he won the WBA title

Nino Valdes, Joe Baksi, Larry Gains (beat Primo Carnera and KO'd Max Schemeling...) and in the lighter weights, I could be all day naming them Howard Davis, Bernard Taylor (he was mustard) Johnny Clark, Dave Sands etc etc.

Golota was a good fighter but he would mentally give up, like when he fought Mike Tyson - didn't he get done for impersonating a police officer in the Illinois countryside?
It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.
And when he quit vs Grant?

That was literally just a case of "I'm really tired. I'm exhausted. I don't wanna do this no more"

Remember his trainer trying to will him to continue by forcing the Mouthpiece into his mouth, and he just wouldn't do it.

I remember on Legendary Nights the HBO docuseries that trainer said "When I was trying to put the mouthpiece in his mouth, I should've shoved it up his ass!!!"

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:57**

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:53
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:43 If Gerry Cooney had fought Mike Weaver instead he won the WBA title

Nino Valdes, Joe Baksi, Larry Gains (beat Primo Carnera and KO'd Max Schemeling...) and in the lighter weights, I could be all day naming them Howard Davis, Bernard Taylor (he was mustard) Johnny Clark, Dave Sands etc etc.

Golota was a good fighter but he would mentally give up, like when he fought Mike Tyson - didn't he get done for impersonating a police officer in the Illinois countryside?
It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.
Well, there you go then, he isn't the best non-champion ever in boxing.

Cause he suffered a tough loss later in his career? It was a weird knockdown. Andrew went down funny.

Other than the Klitschkos, Andrew is the best white heavyweight ever.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:57**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:56
oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:51
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48

It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.
And when he quit vs Grant?
That was literally just a case of "I'm really tired. I'm exhausted. I don't wanna do this no more"

LMFAO!

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:58**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:56
oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:51
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48

It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.
And when he quit vs Grant?
That was literally just a case of "I'm really tired. I'm exhausted. I don't wanna do this no more"

Remember his trainer trying to will him to continue by forcing the Mouthpiece into his mouth, and he just wouldn't do it.

I remember on Legendary Nights the HBO docuseries that trainer said "When I was trying to put the mouthpiece in his mouth, I should've shoved it up his ass!!!"

More like sick of American judges screwing me!

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:59**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:57
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:53
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48

It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.
Well, there you go then, he isn't the best non-champion ever in boxing.
Cause he suffered a tough loss later in his career? It was a weird knockdown. Andrew went down funny.

Other than the Klitschkos, Andrew is the best white heavyweight ever.

Wow. Somebody doesn't seem to know that Boxing existed before 1990.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 13:59**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:58
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:56
oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:51
And when he quit vs Grant?
That was literally just a case of "I'm really tired. I'm exhausted. I don't wanna do this no more"

Remember his trainer trying to will him to continue by forcing the Mouthpiece into his mouth, and he just wouldn't do it.

I remember on Legendary Nights the HBO docuseries that trainer said "When I was trying to put the mouthpiece in his mouth, I should've shoved it up his ass!!!"
More like sick of American judges screwing me!

When had he had a bad decision go against him at that point? Literally never.

The Byrd and Ruiz decisions came well after that.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 14:00**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:57
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:53
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:48

It turned out Golota was correct in quitting against Tyson.

He had suffered a broken orbital bone, a serious concussion and strained disks in his lower back.

I think it put him out of boxing for 2 years.
Well, there you go then, he isn't the best non-champion ever in boxing.
Cause he suffered a tough loss later in his career? It was a weird knockdown. Andrew went down funny.

Other than the Klitschkos, Andrew is the best white heavyweight ever.

Because Tyson was past his prime - long past his prime.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 14:01**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:59
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:58
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:56

That was literally just a case of "I'm really tired. I'm exhausted. I don't wanna do this no more"

Remember his trainer trying to will him to continue by forcing the Mouthpiece into his mouth, and he just wouldn't do it.

I remember on Legendary Nights the HBO docuseries that trainer said "When I was trying to put the mouthpiece in his mouth, I should've shoved it up his ass!!!"
More like sick of American judges screwing me!
When had he had a bad decision go against him at that point? Literally never.

The Byrd and Ruiz decisions came well after that.

Bad decision DQ vs Big Daddy. Gilota beat champ Bowe up bad!!!!

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 14:03**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:01
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:59
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:58

More like sick of American judges screwing me!
When had he had a bad decision go against him at that point? Literally never.

The Byrd and Ruiz decisions came well after that.
Bad decision DQ vs Big Daddy. Gilota beat champ Bowe up bad!!!!

How was it a bad decision? He low blowed him as many times as I've ever seen somebody low blow a guy.

You think guys should just be allowed to break the rules as much as they want?

Yes, he was winning against Bowe in both fights. Then he got tired, and wanted out so he fouled his way out.

Ultimately he was a p*ssy who would find a way to quit when things got tough. Period. That's his legacy.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 14:04**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:03
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:01
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:59

When had he had a bad decision go against him at that point? Literally never.

The Byrd and Ruiz decisions came well after that.
Bad decision DQ vs Big Daddy. Gilota beat champ Bowe up bad!!!!
How was it a bad decision? He low blowed him as many times as I've ever seen somebody low blow a guy.

You think guys should just be allowed to break the rules as much as they want?

Yes, he was winning against Bowe in both fights. Then he got tired, and wanted out so he fouled his way out.

Ultimately he was a p*ssy who would find a way to quit when things got tough. Period. That's his legacy.

Just keep taking point away. Andrew would win by knockout.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 14:11**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:03
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:01
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 13:59

When had he had a bad decision go against him at that point? Literally never.

The Byrd and Ruiz decisions came well after that.
Bad decision DQ vs Big Daddy. Gilota beat champ Bowe up bad!!!!
How was it a bad decision? He low blowed him as many times as I've ever seen somebody low blow a guy.

You think guys should just be allowed to break the rules as much as they want?

Yes, he was winning against Bowe in both fights. Then he got tired, and wanted out so he fouled his way out.

Ultimately he was a p*ssy who would find a way to quit when things got tough. Period. That's his legacy.

Andrew Golota very good Polish fighter. Had Bowe on ground like girl.

Posted: **07 Nov 2020, 14:47**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:04
gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:03
vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 14:01

Bad decision DQ vs Big Daddy. Gilota beat champ Bowe up bad!!!!
How was it a bad decision? He low blowed him as many times as I've ever seen somebody low blow a guy.

You think guys should just be allowed to break the rules as much as they want?

Yes, he was winning against Bowe in both fights. Then he got tired, and wanted out so he fouled his way out.

Ultimately he was a p*ssy who would find a way to quit when things got tough. Period. That's his legacy.
Just keep taking point away. Andrew would win by knockout.

Just keep taking points away, and let him rupture this guy's balls?

You're a moron.

Posted: **13 Dec 2021, 00:53**

vitalyjohnson wrote: ↑07 Nov 2020, 11:14 Andrew Golota.

Give Big Daddy Bowe brain damage two fights. Andrew win both fights. Ref can't disqualify Andrew. Andrew winning. This bullshit. Who really win???

Then Andrew beat Byrd and Ruiz Huggy Bear. Judges rip off Golota.

Grant fight Andrew win. Ref misunderstand and call fight off.

Mafia tells him to throw Lewis and Tyson fight.

Andrew could have been great.

i suppose Andrew never bit Samson Po'uha on the neck either

Posted: **13 Dec 2021, 12:20**

Obviously Golota was not. Several fighters mentioned already were better. Jeannette, McVey and Lyle were better as well.
The best was either Langford or Wills.

Posted: **14 Dec 2021, 01:04**

He got two bad decisions in titlefights (Byrd and Ruiz).

While that means he should be a titleholder, it is not the same as being the best non-champion. I do not see him doing well against motivated and in shape version of Mercer for example.

Posted: **14 Dec 2021, 01:42**

gregor wrote: ↑14 Dec 2021, 01:04 He got two bad decisions in titlefights (Byrd and Ruiz).

While that means he should be a titleholder, it is not the same as being the best non-champion. I do not see him doing well against motivated and in shape version of Mercer for example.

By the way, the Mercer fight was set for 1997, after the Golota-Bowe bouts and Mercer's streak vs Holy, Lewis and Witherspoon. It was off because of Ray's injury.

Posted: **14 Dec 2021, 06:49**

Tremendous size and strength, and talent, but just couldn't tough it out. Even against Pouha and Nicholson he was teetering on the edge of defeat in spite of his massive advantages. Caught Bowe at the right time but still snapped, twice!

If you could swap his heart with a Langford or similar he would have been all but unbeatable. But as he was, no, not the best non-champion. Too many chinks in his armor.

Posted: **14 Dec 2021, 06:51**

gregor wrote: ↑14 Dec 2021, 01:04 He got two bad decisions in titlefights (Byrd and Ruiz).

While that means he should be a titleholder, it is not the same as being the best non-champion. I do not see him doing well against motivated and in shape version of Mercer for example.

i agree, he won those fights for me, which is why im not fully on the 'he'd find a way to lose vs anyone half decent' train in fights where we assume fair judging. he didnt find a way to lose those 2, it was judging that was up to others

Posted: **14 Dec 2021, 12:00**

You keep saying. but look at his track record. Most of the time, he self destructed.

First big fight, Darnell Nicholson. Was cruising a long, and then no reason whatsoever, blatantly intentionally headbutted Nicholson. Luckily for him, he managed to control himself after that and was not disqualified.

First Bowe fight. Discussed at nauseum.
Second Bowe fight. Discussed at nauseum.

Lennox Lewis fight- Huge fight. complete meltdown and stopped in less than a minute.

Grant fight. Almost scored a KO win in the first round, but Grant hung in there. Fought a decent fight afterward and looked like he was going to go onto winning a decision. Got knocked down and quit. Again. For some reason, most people seem to forget this fight.

Tyson fight. Wanted to quit after the first round. corner talked him out of it . Quit after the second round.

Ruiz fight.
Byrd fight.
Brewster fight. another big fight. Another meltdown. Stopped in the first round again.

9 fights. Self destructed (in various ways) 6 times. Almost did another time. That's a pattern.

Posted: **14 Dec 2021, 12:08**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Dec 2021, 12:00 You keep saying. but look at his track record. Most of the time, he self destructed.

First big fight, Darnell Nicholson. Was cruising a long, and then no reason whatsoever, blatantly intentionally headbutted Nicholson. Luckily for him, he managed to control himself after that and was not disqualified.

First Bowe fight. Discussed at nauseum.
Second Bowe fight. Discussed at nauseum.

Lennox Lewis fight- Huge fight. complete meltdown and stopped in less than a minute.

Grant fight. Almost scored a KO win in the first round, but Grant hung in there. Fought a decent fight afterward and looked like he was going to go onto winning a decision. Got knocked down and quit. Again. For some reason, most people seem to forget this fight.

Tyson fight. Wanted to quit after the first round. corner talked him out of it . Quit after the second round.

Ruiz fight.
Byrd fight.
Brewster fight. another big fight. Another meltdown. Stopped in the first round again.

9 fights. Self destructed (in various ways) 6 times. Almost did another time. That's a pattern.

In what way the Lewis and Brewster bouts were self-destructive?

BoxRec

Andrew Golota best non-champion?

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