DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Feb 2021, 04:32
Povetkin is a truly world class fighter as well. But he was mis-promoted by the Germans early on. The World of Boxing, which is led by Ryabinsky, is the best Russian promotion, a really good one, it enabled Povetkin to become a contender for several times. He just got unlucky with the boxing politics at the moment of his scheduled fight against Wilder.
I think it's a bit of a tragedy that we never really saw how good Povetkin could have been, because his best years were very poorly handled. He has way, way too much talent to have one world title challenge at the top of his CV.
Does he have recognition in Russia at least? I met a Russian woman on holiday once who wasn't interested in boxing particularly but said everyone loved him.
Yeah, Povetkin is very popular here.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 12:18
by bobcatbox
Povetkin?
Kovalev?
Drago?
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 12:22
by bobcatbox
Saw someone had already mentioned Beterbiev.
What’s the final jury verdict on our old friend, the Siberian rocky, Ruslan Provodnikov?
I always liked to watch him fight but never felt he had all that much world level talent.
Edit: called him fat in the original post. Went back and looked at some photos and he really wasn’t. Don’t know where that came from.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 12:41
by Cent0089
bobcatbox wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 12:22
Saw someone had already mentioned Beterbiev.
What’s the final jury verdict on our old friend, the Siberian rocky, Ruslan Provodnikov?
I always liked to watch him fight but never felt he had all that much world level talent.
Edit: called him fat in the original post. Went back and looked at some photos and he really wasn’t. Don’t know where that came from.
IMO he was world level. Too bad he had no defense. Limited boxing skill, but big heart, good stamina, strength and overall toughness. Entertaning to watch
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 13:05
by DrDuke
bobcatbox wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 12:22
Saw someone had already mentioned Beterbiev.
What’s the final jury verdict on our old friend, the Siberian rocky, Ruslan Provodnikov?
I always liked to watch him fight but never felt he had all that much world level talent.
Edit: called him fat in the original post. Went back and looked at some photos and he really wasn’t. Don’t know where that came from.
He's an overachiever because of his guts and exciting style, but no way he was World level skill-wise.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 13:52
by TheRealz
This is a troll thread for sure
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 14:05
by TheRealz
This has to be a troll thread because
Russians could only turn pro since the late 90s/early 00s and they've always dominated the amateurs.
And since small numbers have turned pro they've made a big impact in the pros. So I've no idea what you are talking about. They are one of the best nations in both amateur and pro boxing.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 14:10
by TheRealz
Kostya Tszyu was p4p number 2 and unified champ
Sergey Kovalev was also p4p.number 2 ( and should have been number 1 o4p he waa robbed in the first Ward fight) and unified champ
Gennady Golovkin was p4p number 1 and (he's 3/4 Russian descent) and unified hano
Artur Beterbiev unnified champ and top 10 p4p
Murat Gassiev unified champ
,
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 14:37
by TheRealz
In the short amount of time Russians have been able to turn pro there's been 24 Russian world champions
Kostya Tszyu, Sergey Kovalev, Yuri Arbachakov, Denis Lebedev,Alexander Povetkin, Artur Beterbiev, Dmitry Pirog, Murat Gassiev, Sultan Ibragimov, Dmitry Bivol, Roman Karmazin, Oleg Maskaev, Nikolay Valuev, Denis Inkin,Ruslan Provodnikov, Zaurbek Baysangurov, Khabib Allahkverdiev, Fedor Chudinov, Evgeny Gradovich, Anatoly Alexandrov, Akhmed Kotiev, Eduard Troyanovsky, Sergey Lipinets, Dmitri Kirillov
Jeez that's quite an impact. That's more world champions tham 95% of countries have ever had!
And still their best pros do not turn pro!
Could you imagine if a big western promoter signed all the best Russian amateurs, they would completely take over.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 14:49
by TheRealz
Watch a Russiam national championships and then watch a USA national championships Im sorry but there is no comparison. Russia is far stronger. There's somuch strength in depth in the Russian amateurs but most don't get the oppprtunity to turm pro, as there's not much money in pro boxing in Russia, Tv don't pay promoters to show boximg.. the promoters have to pay them!
Look at these two young Russian lightweights for example in the national championships - Ilya Shakirov and Ilya Popov. Look how good they are.
If they was American they would be pro now , pampered and getting everything on a plate like Haney and Garcia.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 15:35
by DrDuke
TheRealz wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 14:37
In the short amount of time Russians have been able to turn pro there's been 24 Russian world champions
Kostya Tszyu, Sergey Kovalev, Yuri Arbachakov, Denis Lebedev,Alexander Povetkin, Artur Beterbiev, Dmitry Pirog, Murat Gassiev, Sultan Ibragimov, Dmitry Bivol, Roman Karmazin, Oleg Maskaev, Nikolay Valuev, Denis Inkin,Ruslan Provodnikov, Zaurbek Baysangurov, Khabib Allahkverdiev, Fedor Chudinov, Evgeny Gradovich, Anatoly Alexandrov, Akhmed Kotiev, Eduard Troyanovsky, Sergey Lipinets, Dmitri Kirillov
To be honest, not every belt-holder was truly World level. Valuev was a big joke (literally, lol). Povetkin is real deal, but never had major straps.
TheRealz wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 14:37
And still their best pros do not turn pro!
Could you imagine if a big western promoter signed all the best Russian amateurs, they would completely take over.
That's close to what I was talking. If Russia had World level promotions, everything would have been better.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 11 Feb 2021, 16:33
by Lenny Cravats
TheRealz wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 13:52
This is a troll thread for sure
Evander wrote: ↑10 Feb 2021, 03:00
They only got Usyk at Heavyweight and he's a small heavyweight.
Usyk would hit max at 225-230 with any kick to his punches.
It makes Usyk a boxer that would have to outwork his opponent before he out skills him.
He's Ukrainian mate, they effing hate Russia. They've got Gassiev and Makhmudov though who could do some damage at HW.
Gassiev beat Dorticos, that was a decent win.
He lost to Usyk and didn't box again for over 2 years, he was 198 against Usyk in July 2018.
Has he boxed at Heavyweight ?
Seems like he's a Cruiserweight for the most part.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 12 Feb 2021, 18:27
by brilo33
there boxing style is more geared towards the amateurs, remember there whole ting in life was to win at the olmpics , when you do get a good russian boxer you know he is going for a world title ,like cubans aswell the country takes there money there is no esentive to earn at pro ,
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 14 Feb 2021, 02:30
by Evander
Their boxing style is varied.
Geared towards aggression for sure.
Makes them predictable.
The Russians are smart but can they take an L eat it learn and how to better themselves as boxers.
I'm 50/50 on that.
They certainly have the capabilities and have shown spurts of excellence.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 14 Feb 2021, 08:29
by fanman
Take the Soviet Union though:
Wlad klitschko - ukr
Vitali klitschko - ukr
Usyk - ukr
Gassiev - rus
Kovalev - rus
Beterbiev - rus
Golovkin - kaz
Lomachenko - ukr
It seems they have had their share of dominant fighters lately!
Albeit fair points made about their amateur systems & finance for pro boxing being more in usa/uk
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 16 Feb 2021, 12:29
by bobcatbox
fanman wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 08:29
Take the Soviet Union though:
This is a very valid point. If you include post-Soviet nations then you have a slew of awesome pros. I know that there’s a lot of sensitive national identity issues involved in that inclusion. The Soviets built a world-class amateur system, and its carried over in a lot of smaller post-Soviet countries to produce excellent professionals. I think we’re still in the early wave of this phenomenon.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 16 Feb 2021, 13:28
by aicheligad
TheRealz wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 14:37
In the short amount of time Russians have been able to turn pro there's been 24 Russian world champions
Kostya Tszyu, Sergey Kovalev, Yuri Arbachakov, Denis Lebedev,Alexander Povetkin, Artur Beterbiev, Dmitry Pirog, Murat Gassiev, Sultan Ibragimov, Dmitry Bivol, Roman Karmazin, Oleg Maskaev, Nikolay Valuev, Denis Inkin,Ruslan Provodnikov, Zaurbek Baysangurov, Khabib Allahkverdiev, Fedor Chudinov, Evgeny Gradovich, Anatoly Alexandrov, Akhmed Kotiev, Eduard Troyanovsky, Sergey Lipinets, Dmitri Kirillov
Jeez that's quite an impact. That's more world champions tham 95% of countries have ever had!
And still their best pros do not turn pro!
Could you imagine if a big western promoter signed all the best Russian amateurs, they would completely take over.
TheRealz wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 14:37
In the short amount of time Russians have been able to turn pro there's been 24 Russian world champions
Kostya Tszyu, Sergey Kovalev, Yuri Arbachakov, Denis Lebedev,Alexander Povetkin, Artur Beterbiev, Dmitry Pirog, Murat Gassiev, Sultan Ibragimov, Dmitry Bivol, Roman Karmazin, Oleg Maskaev, Nikolay Valuev, Denis Inkin,Ruslan Provodnikov, Zaurbek Baysangurov, Khabib Allahkverdiev, Fedor Chudinov, Evgeny Gradovich, Anatoly Alexandrov, Akhmed Kotiev, Eduard Troyanovsky, Sergey Lipinets, Dmitri Kirillov
Jeez that's quite an impact. That's more world champions tham 95% of countries have ever had!
And still their best pros do not turn pro!
Could you imagine if a big western promoter signed all the best Russian amateurs, they would completely take over.
You forgot Grisha Drozd.
Tszyu is top prime Russian ?
Over Kovalev ?
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 03:01
by AntonioMartin
Plus there are a few great women fighters from Russia too, no?
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 03:29
by DrDuke
If to name literally great Russian boxers, HOF-worthy, I'd mention Tszyu and Kovalev. Tszyu is already there for a reason.
In any case, Russia was always producing top fighters, since it had entered the pro arena.
Today it's a one of the best boxing countries, but still it can't compete in the promotional area on the World level.
However, right now Russian boxing is in its best state ever. The question is, how the situation will look like in future, but it has quite optimistic expectations.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 12:24
by TheRealz
DrDuke wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 03:29
In any case, Russia was always producing top fighters, since it had entered the pro arena.
Today it's a one of the best boxing countries, but still it can't compete in the promotional area on the World level.
Yes
I think the best period of Russian pro boxing was when Andrey Ryabinskiy of World Of Boxing was funding big stacked shows there for a few years with Povetkin, Lebedev,Drozd, Troyanovsky, Bivol, Kudrayshov, Chahkhiev, etc. But he was doing it as like a hobby with no or little TV money. So it wasn't sustainable.
Like you said the talent is obviously clearly there. There's non stop stacks of talent coming through. It's just lacking the boxing infrastructure. It needs a Russian version of Sky Sports or ESPN to come on board.
And there's an anti-Russian vibe in USA so promoters and trainers don't wanna take on too many of them or don't seem to promote/manage them properly.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 12:46
by TheRealz
Many talented prospects coming up. Here's some of them
Evgeny Tischenko, Pavel Silyagin, Albert Batyrgaziev, Alexander Besputin, Aleksei Egorov, Shakhabas Makhmudov, Radzhab Buataev, Vladimir Shishkin, Vladimir Mironchikov, Movladdin Biyarslanov, Arslanbek Makhmudov, Magomed Kurbanov, Artem Oganesyan, Khariton Agbra, Bakhram Murtazaliev,Sergey Lubkovich, Vasily Voytsekhovsky
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 15:17
by snake33
The Klitchkos are Ukrainian which was part of the USSR so Russian by association.
Otherwise there are great Russian boxers but not typically the best. This I think
comes down to training. There are more modern training techniques that are not
being used there. PEDs maybe but basic training no.
Re: Why don't Russians make great Pro Boxers ?
Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 15:41
by Jeff_lacy_ko
They might not make great boxers but the Chinese make great walls
