BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 19:06

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 18:15

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 10:01
From a commercial perspective, the USA continues to be boxing “home”, which explains the reason why so many (if not most) fighters and their families (especially those from poorer countries) choose to permanently reside there.

If you firmly believe that immigrants that lawfully achieve permanent residence in the US cannot be considered as being American citizens (or permanently US-based), then that your prerogative.

Regardless, when you consider the fact that more than half of today’s top 100 fighters permanently reside on American shores (with a lot of the men included in my list actually born there), then it’s a tad silly for someone (like the person who created this thread) to wrongfully claim that it’s “officially game over for USA in pro boxing” when their top welterweights eventually relinquish dominance over the welterweight division.

The USA will continue being boxing’s home, simply because that country stages the vast majority of marquee bouts and most top-tier world-rated fighters live there.

I didn't say they weren't American Citizens, but I don't think they'd necessarily be thought of as American Fighters seeing as how the majority of their skills were surely honed in the Countries of their Origin.

Rigondeaux for instance was a 2x Olympic Gold Medalist before ever coming here. I think it's safe to say he'd learned a great deal of the skills that took him to the top before he lived here.

They're American based fighters. I think I mentioned this on an earlier post. They're all permanent full-time residents of the US.

Let's not forget that the person who created this thread is pretending that it's “officially game over for USA in pro boxing” when their top welterweights eventually relinquish dominance over the welterweight division.

However, the vast majority of the sports' biggest names all permanently reside in the US.

I think we basically agree on this subject matter. But if a fighter and their families permanently reside in America, then regardless of their country of origin, they're US-based fighters that'll probably remain in that country for the remainder of their lives.

The Gratest wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 19:39 I think the OP clarified that it was the fighter's nationality rather than place of residence he was referring to when he used Loma as an example. I think the thread title is just misleading a bit, which is understandable.
Is this correct OP/Goodz?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 19:19 teo lopez didnt win any olympic medal, loma won 2 golds, couldnt save loma when they fought could it

crawdaddy, spence, canelo, teo, inoue, etc,.....none won olympic medals but are among the p4p elite. fury didnt make the olympics but is now the top hw.david price won an olympic medal though lol

olympics, shmo lympics

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 05:17

Goodz wrote: ↑07 Mar 2021, 20:54 Seems like all americans talk about is 147. it's the sole focus for them. Because it's the last division that hasn't been taken over by Eastern Europeans/Brits/others. Once they lose that, are yank fighters gonna be non existent at the top level of pro boxing the way they have been in amateur boxing for ages now. Feels like it's going that way

According to BoxRec’s top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, 52% of the fighters listed are classified as Americans (born, nationality or permanently reside there).

The UK are in second place with 16 fighters and Mexico is third with only 8.

Here’s a list of the 52 US-based fighters included in BoxRec’s top 100 pound-for-pound ratings:

• Terence Crawford (Omaha)
• Gennadiy Golovkin (Los Angeles)
• Errol Spence Jr (Desoto)
• Deontay Wilder (Tuscaloosa)
• Shawn Porter (Las Vegas)
• Jermall Charlo (Houston)
• Teofimo Lopez (Jonesboro)
• Sergey Kovalev (Fort Lauderdale)
• Mikey Garcia (Moreno Valley)
• Gervonta Davis (Baltimore)
• Regis Prograis (Houston)
• Oleksandr Usyk (Oxnard)
• Jermell Charlo (Houston)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (Imperial)
• Jose Zepeda (La Puente)
• Jose Carlos Ramirez (Avenal)
• Vasyl Lomachenko (Oxnard)
• Yordenis Ugas (Miami)
• Joe Smith Jr (Long Island)
• Demetrius Andrade (Providence)
• Devin Haney (Las Vegas)
• Michael Hunter (Las Vegas)
• Danny Garcia (Philadelphia)
• David Benavidez (Phoenix)
• Jesse Hart (Philadelphia)
• Daniel Jacobs (Brooklyn)
• Caleb Plant (Las Vegas)
• Gary Allen Russell Jr (Capitol Heights)
• Jessie Vargas (Las Vegas)
• Joseph Diaz (Downey)
• Erislandy Lara (Houston)
• Richard Commey (Bronx)
• Egidijus Kavaliauskas (Oxnard)
• Tevin Farmer (Philadelphia)
• Yuniel Dorticos (Miami)
• Robert Easter Jr (Toledo)
• Ryan Garcia (Los Angeles)
• Badou Jack (Las Vegas)
• Jamal James (Minneapolis)
• Luis Ortiz (Miami)
• Javier Fortuna (Braintree)
• Stephen Fulton (Philadelphia)
• Shakur Stevenson (Alexandria)
• Sergiy Derevyanchenko (Brooklyn)
• Jamel Herring (Cincinnati)
• Josesito Lopez (Riverside)
• Arnold Barboza Jr (Los Angeles)
• Viktor Postol (Marina del Rey)
• Arsen Goulamirian (Big Bear Lake)
• Mario Barrios (San Antonio)
• Guillermo Rigondeaux (Miami)
• Maurice Hooker (Dallas)

For sure, you’ll inevitably claim that many of these names have dual citizenship, since a lot of them weren’t born on US shores. You might even argue that they shouldn't be classified as being American or US-based, regardless as to where they choose to reside.

However, all these fighters have CHOOSEN to permanently reside in the US (for several years) for an obvious reason, which I don’t need to bother mentioning.

And this obviously undermines your mythical claim about it being “officially game over for USA in pro boxing [when America loses the Welterweight division]”.

End of thread!

Goodz wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 21:38

The Gratest wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 19:39 I think the OP clarified that it was the fighter's nationality rather than place of residence he was referring to when he used Loma as an example. I think the thread title is just misleading a bit, which is understandable.
Is this correct OP/Goodz?

Yes correct

Finkel wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 21:52

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 19:19 teo lopez didnt win any olympic medal, loma won 2 golds, couldnt save loma when they fought could it

crawdaddy, spence, canelo, teo, inoue, etc,.....none won olympic medals but are among the p4p elite. fury didnt make the olympics but is now the top hw.david price won an olympic medal though lol

olympics, shmo lympics

I find it hard to tell when you are being sarcastic at times.
But not sure using the Heavyweight division is a good example there, I think it's only Larry Holmes, since the days of Ali taking the title, who hasn't had some form of Olympic success and been a ruling elite. Both men named Fury should have gone if it weren't for politics getting in the way.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 12:42

bobcatbox wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 11:17 They ain’t losing it cause Boots is the next champ.

Yeah, he’s an exciting prospect.

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 03:21Nice list kid, you've obviously spent a lot of time putting it together. However, the OP was referring to the fighter's nationality rather than whether they are based in America when posing the question.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 10:07

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 03:21Nice list kid, you've obviously spent a lot of time putting it together. However, the OP was referring to the fighter's nationality rather than whether they are based in America when posing the question.

I think you’ll agree that you didn’t review my previous list.

And now that I’ve spoon-fed you, by categorizing permanent US-based fighters according to whether they were born in America or not, you’ll surely also agree that this is the end of thread?

According to BoxRec’s top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, there are 36 fighters that were born and raised in the USA. Only nine of them are welterweights:

• Terence Crawford (welter)
• Errol Spence Jr (welter)
• Deontay Wilder (heavy)
• Shawn Porter (welter)
• Jermall Charlo (middle)
• Teofimo Lopez (light)
• Mikey Garcia (welter)
• Gervonta Davis (light)
• Regis Prograis (super light)
• Jermell Charlo (super welter)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (heavy)
• Jose Zepeda (super light)
• Jose Carlos Ramirez (super light)
• Joe Smith Jr (light heavy)
• Demetrius Andrade (middle)
• Devin Haney (light)
• Michael Hunter (heavy)
• Danny Garcia (welter)
• David Benavidez (super middle)
• Jesse Hart (light heavy)
• Daniel Jacobs (super middle)
• Caleb Plant (super middle)
• Gary Allen Russell Jr (feather)
• Jessie Vargas (welter)
• Tevin Farmer (super feather)
• Robert Easter Jr (super light)
• Ryan Garcia (light)
• Joseph Diaz (super feather)
• Jamal James (welter)
• Stephen Fulton (super bantam)
• Shakur Stevenson (super feather)
• Jamel Herring (super feather)
• Josesito Lopez (welter)
• Arnold Barboza Jr (super light)
• Mario Barrios (super light)
• Maurice Hooker (welter)

The above list excludes the following permanent US-based residents, such as Erislandy Lara (who became an American citizen four years ago):

• Gennadiy Golovkin (Los Angeles)
• Sergey Kovalev (Fort Lauderdale)
• Oleksandr Usyk (Oxnard)
• Vasyl Lomachenko (Oxnard)
• Yordenis Ugas (Miami)
• Erislandy Lara (Houston)
• Richard Commey (Bronx)
• Egidijus Kavaliauskas (Oxnard)
• Yuniel Dorticos (Miami)
• Badou Jack (Las Vegas)
• Luis Ortiz (Miami)
• Javier Fortuna (Braintree)
• Sergiy Derevyanchenko(Brooklyn)
• Viktor Postol (Marina del Rey)
• Arsen Goulamirian (Big Bear Lake)
• Guillermo Rigondeaux (Miami)

I’d love to see someone attempt to provide a counterargument that defends a bizarre claim, such as it being “officially game over for USA in pro boxing” when their top welterweights eventually relinquish dominance over the welterweight division.

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:07

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 10:07

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 03:21Nice list kid, you've obviously spent a lot of time putting it together. However, the OP was referring to the fighter's nationality rather than whether they are based in America when posing the question.

I think you’ll agree that you didn’t review my previous list.

And now that I’ve spoon-fed you, by categorizing permanent US-based fighters according to whether they were born in America or not, you’ll surely also agree that this is the end of thread?

According to BoxRec’s top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, there are 36 fighters that were born and raised in the USA. Only nine of them are welterweights:

• Terence Crawford (welter)
• Errol Spence Jr (welter)
• Deontay Wilder (heavy)
• Shawn Porter (welter)
• Jermall Charlo (middle)
• Teofimo Lopez (light)
• Mikey Garcia (welter)
• Gervonta Davis (light)
• Regis Prograis (super light)
• Jermell Charlo (super welter)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (heavy)
• Jose Zepeda (super light)
• Jose Carlos Ramirez (super light)
• Joe Smith Jr (light heavy)
• Demetrius Andrade (middle)
• Devin Haney (light)
• Michael Hunter (heavy)
• Danny Garcia (welter)
• David Benavidez (super middle)
• Jesse Hart (light heavy)
• Daniel Jacobs (super middle)
• Caleb Plant (super middle)
• Gary Allen Russell Jr (feather)
• Jessie Vargas (welter)
• Tevin Farmer (super feather)
• Robert Easter Jr (super light)
• Ryan Garcia (light)
• Joseph Diaz (super feather)
• Jamal James (welter)
• Stephen Fulton (super bantam)
• Shakur Stevenson (super feather)
• Jamel Herring (super feather)
• Josesito Lopez (welter)
• Arnold Barboza Jr (super light)
• Mario Barrios (super light)
• Maurice Hooker (welter)

The above list excludes the following permanent US-based residents, such as Erislandy Lara (who became an American citizen four years ago):

• Gennadiy Golovkin (Los Angeles)
• Sergey Kovalev (Fort Lauderdale)
• Oleksandr Usyk (Oxnard)
• Vasyl Lomachenko (Oxnard)
• Yordenis Ugas (Miami)
• Erislandy Lara (Houston)
• Richard Commey (Bronx)
• Egidijus Kavaliauskas (Oxnard)
• Yuniel Dorticos (Miami)
• Badou Jack (Las Vegas)
• Luis Ortiz (Miami)
• Javier Fortuna (Braintree)
• Sergiy Derevyanchenko(Brooklyn)
• Viktor Postol (Marina del Rey)
• Arsen Goulamirian (Big Bear Lake)
• Guillermo Rigondeaux (Miami)

I’d love to see someone attempt to provide a counterargument that defends a bizarre claim, such as it being “officially game over for USA in pro boxing” when their top welterweights eventually relinquish dominance over the welterweight division.

Hey kid, I did review it.
Rather than just repeat yourself, why not simply acknowledge that the OP (Goodz), who set the question, has actually clarified that he was referring to the fighter's nationality, not where the fighter is based.
It's OK, you misunderstood the question, it happens sometimes, and that's why you've now changed your list.

Therefore, if you really want to do an actual listing of fighter's using Boxrec as the reference, how about you list their nationalities as per Boxrec? It'll be relevant to the actual question being asked.
As it is, your listing stating where they are based, is not.

Nationality kid, not where they are based. It's simple stuff really.

Goodz wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:02 Cmon man don't try and deny that about 80% of of USA's BEST fighters over recent years have been centred around one division.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:50

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:07

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 10:07
I think you’ll agree that you didn’t review my previous list.

And now that I’ve spoon-fed you, by categorizing permanent US-based fighters according to whether they were born in America or not, you’ll surely also agree that this is the end of thread?

According to BoxRec’s top 100 pound-for-pound ratings, there are 36 fighters that were born and raised in the USA. Only nine of them are welterweights:

• Terence Crawford (welter)
• Errol Spence Jr (welter)
• Deontay Wilder (heavy)
• Shawn Porter (welter)
• Jermall Charlo (middle)
• Teofimo Lopez (light)
• Mikey Garcia (welter)
• Gervonta Davis (light)
• Regis Prograis (super light)
• Jermell Charlo (super welter)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (heavy)
• Jose Zepeda (super light)
• Jose Carlos Ramirez (super light)
• Joe Smith Jr (light heavy)
• Demetrius Andrade (middle)
• Devin Haney (light)
• Michael Hunter (heavy)
• Danny Garcia (welter)
• David Benavidez (super middle)
• Jesse Hart (light heavy)
• Daniel Jacobs (super middle)
• Caleb Plant (super middle)
• Gary Allen Russell Jr (feather)
• Jessie Vargas (welter)
• Tevin Farmer (super feather)
• Robert Easter Jr (super light)
• Ryan Garcia (light)
• Joseph Diaz (super feather)
• Jamal James (welter)
• Stephen Fulton (super bantam)
• Shakur Stevenson (super feather)
• Jamel Herring (super feather)
• Josesito Lopez (welter)
• Arnold Barboza Jr (super light)
• Mario Barrios (super light)
• Maurice Hooker (welter)

The above list excludes the following permanent US-based residents, such as Erislandy Lara (who became an American citizen four years ago):

• Gennadiy Golovkin (Los Angeles)
• Sergey Kovalev (Fort Lauderdale)
• Oleksandr Usyk (Oxnard)
• Vasyl Lomachenko (Oxnard)
• Yordenis Ugas (Miami)
• Erislandy Lara (Houston)
• Richard Commey (Bronx)
• Egidijus Kavaliauskas (Oxnard)
• Yuniel Dorticos (Miami)
• Badou Jack (Las Vegas)
• Luis Ortiz (Miami)
• Javier Fortuna (Braintree)
• Sergiy Derevyanchenko(Brooklyn)
• Viktor Postol (Marina del Rey)
• Arsen Goulamirian (Big Bear Lake)
• Guillermo Rigondeaux (Miami)

I’d love to see someone attempt to provide a counterargument that defends a bizarre claim, such as it being “officially game over for USA in pro boxing” when their top welterweights eventually relinquish dominance over the welterweight division.

Hey kid, I did review it.
Rather than just repeat yourself, why not simply acknowledge that the OP (Goodz), who set the question, has actually clarified that he was referring to the fighter's nationality, not where the fighter is based.
It's OK, you misunderstood the question, it happens sometimes, and that's why you've now changed your list.

Therefore, if you really want to do an actual listing of fighter's using Boxrec as the reference, how about you list their nationalities as per Boxrec? It'll be relevant to the actual question being asked.
As it is, your listing stating where they are based, is not.

Nationality kid, not where they are based. It's simple stuff really.

My post, which you quoted without reading, provides a substantial list of fighters that were born, raised and permanently reside in the US.

Here’s a novel idea, why don’t you read it?

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:06

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:50

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:07
Hey kid, I did review it.
Rather than just repeat yourself, why not simply acknowledge that the OP (Goodz), who set the question, has actually clarified that he was referring to the fighter's nationality, not where the fighter is based.
It's OK, you misunderstood the question, it happens sometimes, and that's why you've now changed your list.

Therefore, if you really want to do an actual listing of fighter's using Boxrec as the reference, how about you list their nationalities as per Boxrec? It'll be relevant to the actual question being asked.
As it is, your listing stating where they are based, is not.

Nationality kid, not where they are based. It's simple stuff really.

My post, which you quoted without reading, provides a substantial list of fighters that were born, raised and permanently reside in the US.

Here’s a novel idea, why don’t you read it?

But the original question is not about where they reside, it's about their nationalities. The reason you do not want to provide such a list is because it undermines all that you've previously written.

So here's a novel idea kid, why don't you read the original question again based on nationalities as confirmed by the OP? It's very obvious as to why you don't want to.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:11

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:06

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 11:50
My post, which you quoted without reading, provides a substantial list of fighters that were born, raised and permanently reside in the US.

Here’s a novel idea, why don’t you read it?

But the original question is not about where they reside, it's about their nationalities. The reason you do not want to provide such a list is because it undermines all that you've previously written.

So here's a novel idea kid, why don't you read the original question again based on nationalities as confirmed by the OP? It's very obvious as to why you don't want to.

So you still won't read my list?

Good for you kid!

If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend the following fighters weren't born and raised in the US (a list you've quoted multiple times already, but refused to acknowledge), then so be it:

• Terence Crawford (welter)
• Errol Spence Jr (welter)
• Deontay Wilder (heavy)
• Shawn Porter (welter)
• Jermall Charlo (middle)
• Teofimo Lopez (light)
• Mikey Garcia (welter)
• Gervonta Davis (light)
• Regis Prograis (super light)
• Jermell Charlo (super welter)
• Andy Ruiz Jr (heavy)
• Jose Zepeda (super light)
• Jose Carlos Ramirez (super light)
• Joe Smith Jr (light heavy)
• Demetrius Andrade (middle)
• Devin Haney (light)
• Michael Hunter (heavy)
• Danny Garcia (welter)
• David Benavidez (super middle)
• Jesse Hart (light heavy)
• Daniel Jacobs (super middle)
• Caleb Plant (super middle)
• Gary Allen Russell Jr (feather)
• Jessie Vargas (welter)
• Tevin Farmer (super feather)
• Robert Easter Jr (super light)
• Ryan Garcia (light)
• Joseph Diaz (super feather)
• Jamal James (welter)
• Stephen Fulton (super bantam)
• Shakur Stevenson (super feather)
• Jamel Herring (super feather)
• Josesito Lopez (welter)
• Arnold Barboza Jr (super light)
• Mario Barrios (super light)
• Maurice Hooker (welter)

All these guys were born in the same country!

All these guys permanently reside in the same country they were born in!

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 03:26

Finkel wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 21:52

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑08 Mar 2021, 19:19 teo lopez didnt win any olympic medal, loma won 2 golds, couldnt save loma when they fought could it

crawdaddy, spence, canelo, teo, inoue, etc,.....none won olympic medals but are among the p4p elite. fury didnt make the olympics but is now the top hw.david price won an olympic medal though lol

olympics, shmo lympics

I find it hard to tell when you are being sarcastic at times.
But not sure using the Heavyweight division is a good example there, I think it's only Larry Holmes, since the days of Ali taking the title, who hasn't had some form of Olympic success and been a ruling elite. Both men named Fury should have gone if it weren't for politics getting in the way.

that's part of the mystique finky my man

What politics got in the way for the Furys btw? Tyson lost 21-7 or somethting to Price in the ABA quarterfinals so he never made the national team that went to the 08 olympic qualifying events, and Hughie never even won a senior national title (not sure he even ever competed in a senior tournament) and so the olympics really werent even an issue at all in his case

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:19As stated, it undermines your argument and your initial misconception that it was about where they resided rather than their nationalities.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:59

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:19As stated, it undermines your argument and your initial misconception that it was about where they resided rather than their nationalities.

I initially provided a list of 52 fighters (included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings) that permanently reside in the US. 36 of the names I listed were also born there too.

You then tried to pretend that I'd misunderstood the title of the thread, so I provided a breakdown of the 52 fighters, by supplying two separate lists: the first one listing the names of 36 fighters that were born in the US; with the second one detailing the remaining 16 immigrants that permanently reside there.

But you would already know that if you reviewed the info. contained in my posts.

What more do you want? You already quoted my posts that answered your questions. But you keep asking the same questions.

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 13:08

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:59

The Gratest wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 12:19As stated, it undermines your argument and your initial misconception that it was about where they resided rather than their nationalities.

I initially provided a list of 52 fighters (included in BoxRec's top 100 pound-for-pound ratings) that permanently reside in the US. 36 of the names I listed were also born there too.

You then tried to pretend that I'd misunderstood the title of the thread, so I provided a breakdown of the 52 fighters, by supplying two separate lists: the first one listing the names of 36 fighters that were born in the US; with the second one detailing the remaining 16 immigrants that permanently reside there.

But you would already know that if you reviewed the info. contained in my posts.

What more do you want? You already quoted my posts that answered your questions. But you keep asking the same questions.

Why do you keep on insisting it to be about residing in the US when it has been confirmed it's not to do with that?
Again you decide not to include other international fighters in order to hide your initial mistake.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 13:11 There are a lot of Top fighters who are American in every way. By birth, and by where they reside.