BoxRec

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:06

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 16:46 Naz was no Herol Graham.

No. He was better.

Defensively?

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:14

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:06

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 16:46 Naz was no Herol Graham.

No. He was better.

Defensively?

Hamed was at least a couple of levels above Graham, Naz was one of the best ever produced from these shores.

Coco wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:16

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:14

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:06

No. He was better.

Defensively?

Hamed was at least a couple of levels above Graham, Naz was one of the best ever produced from these shores.

Right. Graham has 3 title world shots. Got kod twice. Got kod by Frank Grant and easily outpointed by Kalambay.

Naz was WBC WBO and IBF plus linear champion. One loss. Never stopped be reasonable. There’s too much sentimentality about Graham.

Coco wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:16

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:14

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:06

No. He was better.

Defensively?

Hamed was at least a couple of levels above Graham, Naz was one of the best ever produced from these shores.

He was very skilled flamboyant fighter, but when he stepped up to world level he was getting tagged, rocked and dropped regularly, so i'd go easy on overrating his defensive skills.

Still, he has to be included in the top echelon of British boxing legends.

He wasn’t a patch on Graham defensively. Much better offensive of course.

What happened to his two sons boxing careers ?

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:30 He wasn’t a patch on Graham defensively. Much better offensive of course.

He was WAY better offensively. And never got stopped with one loss

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:33

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:30 He wasn’t a patch on Graham defensively. Much better offensive of course.

He was WAY better offensively. And never got stopped with one loss

Never said any different did I? I asked you the question that you avoided.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:06

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 16:46 Naz was no Herol Graham.

No. He was better.

Naz wasn’t in Graham’s class. Graham was already years past his best when he made McCallum look bad.

Not even Barrera at his best was a McCallum.

If Graham had the opportunities Naz had, he might of beaten them all. It was a travesty of a career fighting in small halls in his peak in the early to mid 80s and never really escaping them.

The punching power was the big separator between Graham and Hamed, but you have to be careful how you compare their careers.

Hamed had it put on a plate, Graham toiled away for years to get a crack at the world title.

Herol had earned a world title shot at light middleweight let alone before he stepped up to middleweight.

Hamed was a product of W@rrens WBO "world" title movement and, therefore, wide open to pot shots.

EBU title shot at just turned 20, when bantamweight had about 20 pros total in the world (light-middle and middle more like 1200).

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:26

Coco wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:16

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:14

Defensively?

Hamed was at least a couple of levels above Graham, Naz was one of the best ever produced from these shores.

Right. Graham has 3 title world shots. Got kod twice. Got kod by Frank Grant and easily outpointed by Kalambay.

Naz was WBC WBO and IBF plus linear champion. One loss. Never stopped be reasonable. There’s too much sentimentality about Graham.

he also beat vaquez the WBA champ, but the belt was ridiculously not on the line. Naz ruled a division and held a strap for 5 years, he clearly wasn't "european" level. He just wasn't elite.

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:37 If Graham had the opportunities Naz had, he might of beaten them all. It was a travesty of a career fighting in small halls in his peak in the early to mid 80s and never really escaping them.

This is a myth.
He had 3 world title shots, lost them all and got kod twice.
He also got kod in a British title fight and lost clearly in a European title fight. He had plenty of opportunities.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑10 Jun 2021, 08:08

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021, 17:37 If Graham had the opportunities Naz had, he might of beaten them all. It was a travesty of a career fighting in small halls in his peak in the early to mid 80s and never really escaping them.

This is a myth.
He had 3 world title shots, lost them all and got kod twice.
He also got kod in a British title fight and lost clearly in a European title fight. He had plenty of opportunities.

12-15 years into his career. Hamed had a WBO shot v Robinson 2-3 years into his (having never fought at that weight before! )

There are certainly no Kalambay’s, Julian Jackson’s or Mike McCallum’s on Hamed’s record or anything remotely close. Graham was past it when he beat McCallum and Kalambay (II) and made a lb4lber in Jackson look like a total fool until getting complacent and losing his whole top row of teeth (Eubank told him a good dentist in Sussex).

“I don’t see any Robbie Sims, Barkleys or Doug DeWitts on his record. He fought Tom ‘Boom Boom’ Johnson and he couldn’t hurt a fly.”
- Benn on Naz in 2002

coghaugen11 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2021, 08:15 There are certainly no Kalambay’s, Julian Jackson’s or Mike McCallum’s on Hamed’s record or anything remotely close. Graham was past it when he beat McCallum and Kalambay (II) and made a lb4lber in Jackson look like a total fool until getting complacent and losing his whole top row of teeth (Eubank told him a good dentist in Sussex).

He wasn't way past it when he fought McCallum or Jackson and he didn't beat McCallum either.

His first world title shot was delayed a couple of years because he lost to Kalambay in 87.

Obviously the talent pool in the MW division in the late 80s was very deep and it was tough to win a legitimate title, and Graham was unlucky not to do so.

And I would certainly put Barrera in the same bracket as McCallum and Kalambay.

Naz had a much more successful career than Herol Graham.

Nobody is saying he wasn’t successful. Warren became very powerful.... and he caught British boxing right off of it’s zenith (Benn, Eubank, Watson etc), terrific luck.

The Herol Graham myth is slightly nauseating. Oh he never got the chances he deserved! Er 3 world title shots, Euro and British titles. Oh he was untouchable! Yeah except getting laid out 3 times and clearly outpointed twice by Kalambay and also Mccallum. Meanwhile Wayne Alexander only got one shot at the world title at 24 hours notice!

I mean what were his best wins? Mainly British level fighters - Kaylor, Douglas. Did he beat a SINGLE world class fighter? I'd argue no. His best wins were Lindell Holmes and Chris Johnson and ex lightweight Vinny Paz. FFS..... For anyone to suggest he was better than Hamed is either deluded or a Hamed hater.

Also doesn't he have 9 different children by different women? I can't have respect for someone like that.

You need your eyes tested if you score the second Kalambay fight to Sumbu. Crazy.

The likes of Sanderline Williams and Lindell ‘don’t call me Larry’ Holmes were far better operators and more talented than Tom Johnson.

Nice how you strangely missed out the great Ayub Kalule. He couldn’t lay a glove on Bomber. He found Sugar Ray L and Sumbu frequently. That was the defensive master Graham before Eastwood asked him to be aggressive (backfired).

Barney wanted Graham to be more sellable to Yanks. McGuigan was on the way out etc.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑10 Jun 2021, 11:49 The Herol Graham myth is slightly nauseating. Oh he never got the chances he deserved! Er 3 world title shots, Euro and British titles. Oh he was untouchable! Yeah except getting laid out 3 times and clearly outpointed twice by Kalambay and also Mccallum. Meanwhile Wayne Alexander only got one shot at the world title at 24 hours notice!

I mean what were his best wins? Mainly British level fighters - Kaylor, Douglas. Did he beat a SINGLE world class fighter? I'd argue no. His best wins were Lindell Holmes and Chris Johnson and ex lightweight Vinny Paz. FFS..... For anyone to suggest he was better than Hamed is either deluded or a Hamed hater.

Also doesn't he have 9 different children by different women? I can't have respect for someone like that.

Not liking a boxer because he has several children by different women,come on man,what's the problem as long as he supports them