BoxRec

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 00:33**

530519 wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 06:21 A midget 40 years old opponent .... British media made it so significant that was like a hell of a opponent

I’m not sure I agree. I don’t think the British media big Joyce up at all and from what I saw there was no coverage of the build up or suggesting Takam was anything but another opponent. In fact there wasn’t much publicity or more than average amounts of Pre fight coverage about the fight at all really.

Also, the fight wasn’t PPV in the U.K. it was just on BT sport. I believe in the US it was $12.99 PPV?

Had Dubois have beaten Joyce then faced Takam - would’ve been a different story. I think there would’ve been a big push on the fight

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 00:57**

530519 wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 06:21 A midget 40 years old opponent .... British media made it so significant that was like a hell of a opponent

Midget? not a sky scraper but he is 248lb and ripped to shreds with an 80 inch reach... midget he is not.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 05:04**

Wales wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 23:45
Cyclops wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 15:46
H8Usernames wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 15:17

X2 it was a legitimate stoppage.
He wasn't throwing back and was getting battered. How many unanswered punches were there? It was double figures. I think it was a good stoppage.

Fun fight by the way!
It’s one of them where it looks good from one perspective, but can fully understand Takam being fuming about it too.

If I was Takam I’d be thinking Boxing isn’t a tickling contest. I was Ahead on the cards. Probably my last chance to get one more big fight. Ive not gone down or looked seriously hurt. Sketchy as fornicate on my feet, yes, but not out the game.

Takam would’ve been better off taking a knee and an 8 count in hindsight

He did look hurt though, and you can't get hit in the head that many times and not throw back. He knows that. I saw an interview with Chisora where he said the stoppage was shit and Takam should have been given a standing out 8 count. As far as I was aware standing 8 counts didn't exist anymore. Chisora's benefitted from some much dodgier stoppages. However, despite saying BT couldn't afford him, he knows he's the ideal opponent for Joyce next to finally help him cross over, but will want to to be suitably paid for it.

Takam is doing the right thing: he gave Joyce all he could handle, which any sensible boxing fan thought he would, and he didn't end up dead on the canvas, so of course he should and will protest it. But it was a good stoppage.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 05:16**

Wales wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 00:33
530519 wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 06:21 A midget 40 years old opponent .... British media made it so significant that was like a hell of a opponent
I’m not sure I agree. I don’t think the British media big Joyce up at all and from what I saw there was no coverage of the build up or suggesting Takam was anything but another opponent. In fact there wasn’t much publicity or more than average amounts of Pre fight coverage about the fight at all really.

Also, the fight wasn’t PPV in the U.K. it was just on BT sport. I believe in the US it was $12.99 PPV?

Had Dubois have beaten Joyce then faced Takam - would’ve been a different story. I think there would’ve been a big push on the fight

I wouldn't pay him too much mind. I think he's either Asdfjk or a distant cousin.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 06:00**

Cyclops wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 05:04
Wales wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 23:45
Cyclops wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 15:46
He wasn't throwing back and was getting battered. How many unanswered punches were there? It was double figures. I think it was a good stoppage.

Fun fight by the way!
It’s one of them where it looks good from one perspective, but can fully understand Takam being fuming about it too.

If I was Takam I’d be thinking Boxing isn’t a tickling contest. I was Ahead on the cards. Probably my last chance to get one more big fight. Ive not gone down or looked seriously hurt. Sketchy as fornicate on my feet, yes, but not out the game.

Takam would’ve been better off taking a knee and an 8 count in hindsight
He did look hurt though, and you can't get hit in the head that many times and not throw back. He knows that. I saw an interview with Chisora where he said the stoppage was shit and Takam should have been given a standing out 8 count. As far as I was aware standing 8 counts didn't exist anymore. Chisora's benefitted from some much dodgier stoppages. However, despite saying BT couldn't afford him, he knows he's the ideal opponent for Joyce next to finally help him cross over, but will want to to be suitably paid for it.

Takam is doing the right thing: he gave Joyce all he could handle, which any sensible boxing fan thought he would, and he didn't end up dead on the canvas, so of course he should and will protest it. But it was a good stoppage.

I know exactly where you’re coming from. And I understand the “didn’t end up dead on the canvas” theology, albeit incredibly extreme, especially as Joyce wasn’t unleashing on him with that level of venom and accuracy. Putting all of that to one side. As a fighter you’ve trained your whole life to fight with a goal of being reaching the pinnacle of the sport. You get in the ring to give it your all, and sometimes, some fighters, have to come through incredible adversity to win. Corrales Castillo, Joshua Wladamir, moorer cooper - the list in endless (not literally)

Now, the referee decided on Saturday to stop the fight.! Takam wasn’t so hurt he went down, or couldn’t take any more. He didn’t choose to end the fight. Takams corner didn’t throw in the towel - so those closest to him didn’t decide to end the fight: Takam was stopped by a referee who made a decision on opinion, not fact, to end the fight. A decision that overruled both the fighter and his corner. A stoppage that was premature compared to other fights we’ve seen. A stoppage made against the fighter who was ahead on the cards. As a fighter you step into the ring accepting the risk of injury. Sometimes it’s a broken jaw, unfortunately sometimes it can be life changing, nobody wants to see a fighter hurt permanently. However, if we start stopping fights as soon as someone gets on top we may as well pack it in and go home.

Example - how was Takam stopped on Saturday but Lacy wasn’t against Calzaghe . Takam hadnt suffered a sustained beating. He basically was having a bad minute or two. Would he have survived, well never know.
Lacy got leathered from pillar to post for 36 minutes.

Where is the consistency?

There isnt any.

Why?
Because when refs start stopping fights at first sign of trouble, before the fighter or the corner do, whilst others allow Lacy like beatings, it results in the goal posts being moved fight by fight .

Nobody wants to see a fighter get permanent damage. But let’s have it right. If the ref hadn’t jumped in Takam would either have wilted or recoverd. And as a professional fighter that is the risk they take, accept and are willing to go through to reach the pinacle .

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 06:03**

The caveat to my post is the ref may have seen something we and the corner couldn’t. I understand that.

I’ll tell you one thing for certain- if that was Ricky Hatton in Manchester it wouldn’t have been stopped as quickly

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 07:42**

Wales wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 06:00
Cyclops wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 05:04
Wales wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 23:45

It’s one of them where it looks good from one perspective, but can fully understand Takam being fuming about it too.

If I was Takam I’d be thinking Boxing isn’t a tickling contest. I was Ahead on the cards. Probably my last chance to get one more big fight. Ive not gone down or looked seriously hurt. Sketchy as fornicate on my feet, yes, but not out the game.

Takam would’ve been better off taking a knee and an 8 count in hindsight
He did look hurt though, and you can't get hit in the head that many times and not throw back. He knows that. I saw an interview with Chisora where he said the stoppage was shit and Takam should have been given a standing out 8 count. As far as I was aware standing 8 counts didn't exist anymore. Chisora's benefitted from some much dodgier stoppages. However, despite saying BT couldn't afford him, he knows he's the ideal opponent for Joyce next to finally help him cross over, but will want to to be suitably paid for it.

Takam is doing the right thing: he gave Joyce all he could handle, which any sensible boxing fan thought he would, and he didn't end up dead on the canvas, so of course he should and will protest it. But it was a good stoppage.
I know exactly where you’re coming from. And I understand the “didn’t end up dead on the canvas” theology, albeit incredibly extreme, especially as Joyce wasn’t unleashing on him with that level of venom and accuracy. Putting all of that to one side. As a fighter you’ve trained your whole life to fight with a goal of being reaching the pinnacle of the sport. You get in the ring to give it your all, and sometimes, some fighters, have to come through incredible adversity to win. Corrales Castillo, Joshua Wladamir, moorer cooper - the list in endless (not literally)

Now, the referee decided on Saturday to stop the fight.! Takam wasn’t so hurt he went down, or couldn’t take any more. He didn’t choose to end the fight. Takams corner didn’t throw in the towel - so those closest to him didn’t decide to end the fight: Takam was stopped by a referee who made a decision on opinion, not fact, to end the fight. A decision that overruled both the fighter and his corner. A stoppage that was premature compared to other fights we’ve seen. A stoppage made against the fighter who was ahead on the cards. As a fighter you step into the ring accepting the risk of injury. Sometimes it’s a broken jaw, unfortunately sometimes it can be life changing, nobody wants to see a fighter hurt permanently. However, if we start stopping fights as soon as someone gets on top we may as well pack it in and go home.

Example - how was Takam stopped on Saturday but Lacy wasn’t against Calzaghe . Takam hadnt suffered a sustained beating. He basically was having a bad minute or two. Would he have survived, well never know.
Lacy got leathered from pillar to post for 36 minutes.

Where is the consistency?

There isnt any.

Why?
Because when refs start stopping fights at first sign of trouble, before the fighter or the corner do, whilst others allow Lacy like beatings, it results in the goal posts being moved fight by fight .

Nobody wants to see a fighter get permanent damage. But let’s have it right. If the ref hadn’t jumped in Takam would either have wilted or recoverd. And as a professional fighter that is the risk they take, accept and are willing to go through to reach the pinacle .

Lacy threw back. That was the problem with the Calzaghe Lacy fight in that despite catching a one sided hiding, Lacy kept on fighting back and never looked like he seriously hurt (the KD is arguable). Even when you thought "the ref should look at this" Lacy continued to throw punches, and so there was an argument to keep him in. He also was the slight fave and was expected to have quite the career. If it had been stopped, people would be moaning til this day. Lacy might have gone on to win another significant fight, though.

Takam got staggered with a good one but didn't go down, did actually start fighting back but then Joyce went into berserker mode and landed 25 unanswered head punches (he throws more but misses a few) on an opponent who just stopped fighting. Takam staggers backwards again on the 25th, ref makes the call to stop the fight. Takam was not alright. He stopped throwing because he didn't know where he was.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 08:12**

I think it’s a agree to disagree situation and I massively respect your opinion mate . Especially when it’s articulated and your giving your personal viewpoint. I massively disagree with the way you saw Calzaghe Lacy compared to the way I did - I saw an absolute beat down, Lacy was battered from
Pillar to post and his promoter was screaming for the towel to be thrown in. Lacy stayed in there refusing to quit and the ref didn’t make the call, neither did his corner: But that’s two boxing fans seeing a fight differently - that’s why we come on here

How shite would it be if we all thought the same.

I’ll ask you this though - what relevance does it have that Lacy was the favourite? That comment is exactly what I said in my post: it starts becoming opinion not fact. Takam may well have been put away 10 seconds after the stoppage, or he may have survived the round. Why because Lacy (or anyone) who is the favourite be given more leeway over the underdog that’s when it becomes an uneven playing field

Where we differ in opinion is for me, a fighter should be left to fight. That’s what they sign up for. That’s what we do. And duck me we’ll do it till the end, Corrales Castillo. Wilders corner pulled him out against Fury - not the ref. Why? Because a ref stopping a fight in that scenario should be the last resort: it should be to save the fighter as a last resort. That wasn’t a last resort against Joyce : that was someone jumping in because they can.

A fighter who’s arse has gone wouldve gone down: a corner who were genuinely worrier would’ve stepped in. Takam was having a bad minute or two. Who the fornicate is the ref to make a decision to decide I’m
Not fit to continue. The decision was proven to be wrong when Takam was fine 10 seconds after the stoppage and not on his arse .

Like I say I massively respect your view And if we all saw things the same these forums wouldn’t exist.

I also massively respect the way you convey your viewpoint. I’m not labelled a dickhead for having my opinion which differs from yours, And that’s refreshing .

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 09:12**

Joyce needs to prove he is elite. Take on another old man, a skilled one this time that your trainer said you weren't ready for a couple years ago - Ortiz 42yrs old. Shut the old man up!

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 09:23**

Bandog wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 09:12 Joyce needs to prove he is elite. Take on another old man, a skilled one this time that your trainer said you weren't ready for a couple years ago - Ortiz 42yrs old. Shut the old man up!

He’s not elite. He needs to prove he belongs in the second tier first.

He beat Dubois who the U.K. media had a hard on for. There’s two ways of winning a fight . By KO or on points. A KO is always more attractive and marketable . Dubois beat his line of fighters who were expected to lose, and beat them by KO. Joyce then beat him.

He then beat Takam who had lost to decent fighters and had beat…. Errrrrrr….. and errrrrr

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 10:00**

Wales wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 08:12 I’ll ask you this though - what relevance does it have that Lacy was the favourite? That comment is exactly what I said in my post: it starts becoming opinion not fact. Takam may well have been put away 10 seconds after the stoppage, or he may have survived the round. Why because Lacy (or anyone) who is the favourite be given more leeway over the underdog that’s when it becomes an uneven playing field

I can answer that. Lacy was supposed to be some monster puncher and I suppose they felt he still could pull a big punch out of somewhere and turn the fight, and I feel like I'm repeating myself here but he never stopped moving or holding on to try and keep himself in the fight and was throwing punches. I think the 'Calzaghe Lacy should have been stopped' narrative has evolved over time, but wasn't really a big deal at the time of the fight. There was never a logical moment to stop it from the ref's point of view. His corner could have saved him but never did. Never even tried. Gary Shaw is shown asking the corner to pull him out in literally the last 10 seconds of the fight. 10 seconds less punishment. They all thought he would KO Joe and weren't going to let him off the hook. That's why he was kept in there and Takam wasn't. He also was never the same fighter again. There is such a thing as a 'brave corner' too, and that's why refs are allowed to stop the fight.

Seriously, Takam just allowed himself to be repeatedly hit in the head over and over again and had already lost his legs, threw some punches then lost them again. It wasn't a knockdown: it was a sustained barrage of headshots where he didn't look to hold, didn't throw a punch, didn't do anything. AJ's TKO of Sprott is similar, only without the competitive fight first. Sprott never goes over, does he? He also takes less punishment than Takam.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 10:08**

Wales wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 08:12 I also massively respect the way you convey your viewpoint. I’m not labelled a dickhead for having my opinion which differs from yours, And that’s refreshing .

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 10:12**

I’ve only just watched the fight.

Joyce looked very good to me.

The stoppage was entirely reasonable.

Takam allowed Joyce to initially throw 22 punches without returning fire.

The Frenchman then bravely threw a couple of wide clumsy looping hooks at the Brit, before allowing Joe to throw 36 more unanswered blows.

Takam is an experienced pro. He must have surely known that not returning fire, whilst also having a leaky defence, would compel the ref to stop the fight, regardless as to whether he was dire straits or not.

And to be fair, Takam stopped looking at Joyce when he had to endure the final barrage of blows from Joyce, which meant he was being defensively irresponsible.

The “premature stoppage” is simply a storm in a teacup for me. There's no legitimate controversy here.

Takam is looking for an excuse for his loss, by blaming others for his early stoppage.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 10:17**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 10:12

The “premature stoppage” is simply a storm in a teacup for me. There's no legitimate controversy here.

There is if there is there isn’t if there isn’t .

The only person that honestly knows is Takam. You don’t . I don’t . The ref doesn’t. My issue is leave the guys to it unless absolutely necessary

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 10:34**

Wales wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 10:17
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 10:12

The “premature stoppage” is simply a storm in a teacup for me. There's no legitimate controversy here.

There is if there is there isn’t if there isn’t .

The only person that honestly knows is Takam. You don’t . I don’t . The ref doesn’t. My issue is leave the guys to it unless absolutely necessary

I think there are rules in boxing specifically designed to protect boxers from themselves, compelling referees to stop fights, such as when a fighter “stops protecting themselves at all times” whilst enduing a lengthy prolonged barrage of unanswered blows.

It's very easy to gauge whether fighters are being defensively responsible and whether they're returning fire. And Takam didn't do those things against Joyce.

The referee doesn’t even need to bother considering whether a fighter is “hurt” or not in those circumstances, such as the Lewis-McCall rematch.

One of the first things any boxer is taught, is also the last thing they’re told before the start of any contest, which is to “protect yourself at all times”…

When a boxer appears exhausted, is no longer blocking/avoiding punches, nor landing any of their own, then this suggest the fighter can no longer “protect” themselves “at all times” using orthodox means... and this understandably puts the ref in a difficult position.

Joyce was allowed to initially throw 22 punches without Takam returning fire. And then Joyce managed to throw 36 unanswered shots before the referee finally intervened and stopped the fight.

Takam is an experienced pro. He knew the rules, failed to abide by them and paid the price, by being stopped.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 10:49**

Fɍȁnk Wȁɍɍȅn wants Joyce to box again in October, by which time he might have a clearer idea how things will play out with Joshua and Tyson Fury, who is due to defend his WBC title against Deontay Wilder on October 9.

“Obviously, Tyson and Joshua both have their respective contractual commitments and if they both come through that I’m certain that they will fight each other,” Wȁɍɍȅn said.

“In that time, Joe is in the No 1 spot and mandatory. He will be either fighting the winner or fighting for a vacant title, provided he keeps winning. We will probably get him out again in October.”

One option of an opponent could be Derek Chisora, who was in the crowd at Wembley to watch.

“That would be great, wouldn’t it?” Wȁɍɍȅn said. “He comes to fight. Can Derek do what this fella did for 12 rounds?

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 11:30**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 10:49 Fɍȁnk Wȁɍɍȅn wants Joyce to box again in October, by which time he might have a clearer idea how things will play out with Joshua and Tyson Fury, who is due to defend his WBC title against Deontay Wilder on October 9.

“Obviously, Tyson and Joshua both have their respective contractual commitments and if they both come through that I’m certain that they will fight each other,” Wȁɍɍȅn said.

“In that time, Joe is in the No 1 spot and mandatory. He will be either fighting the winner or fighting for a vacant title, provided he keeps winning. We will probably get him out again in October.”

One option of an opponent could be Derek Chisora, who was in the crowd at Wembley to watch.

“That would be great, wouldn’t it?” Wȁɍɍȅn said. “He comes to fight. Can Derek do what this fella did for 12 rounds?

Isn't Dereck rematching Parker? Or have they figured out that nobody at all is interested in seeing that one?

Chisora-Joyce could do the 02 with a decent supporting co-main event fight, so long as we're not locked down again by then and we're allowed proper crowds back. I can tell you for a fact that Saturday was nowhere near sold out, even with the reduced capacity of 6000. A big part of that is Wembley is a terrible place to get home from, even if you live in London, alongside the fact that Joyce is yet to crossover. Dereck would play his part there, definitely. I don't mind it.

I'm not going to f*cking Wembley again. 02 is a far better venue.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 11:43**

Cyclops wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 11:30
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 10:49 Fɍȁnk Wȁɍɍȅn wants Joyce to box again in October, by which time he might have a clearer idea how things will play out with Joshua and Tyson Fury, who is due to defend his WBC title against Deontay Wilder on October 9.

“Obviously, Tyson and Joshua both have their respective contractual commitments and if they both come through that I’m certain that they will fight each other,” Wȁɍɍȅn said.

“In that time, Joe is in the No 1 spot and mandatory. He will be either fighting the winner or fighting for a vacant title, provided he keeps winning. We will probably get him out again in October.”

One option of an opponent could be Derek Chisora, who was in the crowd at Wembley to watch.

“That would be great, wouldn’t it?” Wȁɍɍȅn said. “He comes to fight. Can Derek do what this fella did for 12 rounds?
Isn't Dereck rematching Parker? Or have they figured out that nobody at all is interested in seeing that one?

Chisora-Joyce could do the 02 with a decent supporting co-main event fight, so long as we're not locked down again by then and we're allowed proper crowds back. I can tell you for a fact that Saturday was nowhere near sold out, even with the reduced capacity of 6000. A big part of that is Wembley is a terrible place to get home from, even if you live in London, alongside the fact that Joyce is yet to crossover. Dereck would play his part there, definitely. I don't mind it.

I'm not going to f*cking Wembley again. 02 is a far better venue.

It's currently being negotiated.

The delay might have been due to Chisora's split with David Haye.

I guess if the Parker rematch doesn't happen, then Joyce might be considered.

Chisora attending the Joyce bout might be a negotiating tactic to receive a better payday for the Parker rematch (i.e. Matchroom/DAZN versus BT/Queensberry).

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 15:50**

chiz would be a good opponent for joyce next, would much rather see that than parker again

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 16:26**

Wtf is it mandatory every hw has to fight derek chisora for some reason? Get joyce a title shot already

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 16:30**

im sure big joe's team want a title fight as soon as possible but its not in their control, especially if aj and fury both win next, good chance the belts could be tied up for 2 more fights

chisora imo did enough to win whyte 1 and parker, he's a good test for pretty much anyone

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 17:20**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 16:30 im sure big joe's team want a title fight as soon as possible but its not in their control, especially if aj and fury both win next, good chance the belts could be tied up for 2 more fights

Joyce has already said he'd be open to step aside money to make the Big One, I guess so long as he got the winner.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 17:22**

if it does so happen that he's in position where he can decide whether the fight can go ahead with all the belts on the line, he could make millions in step aside

so ya maybe not totally eager as can be to fight for the title if that opportunity comes up lol

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 18:06**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Jul 2021, 17:22 if it does so happen that he's in position where he can decide whether the fight can go ahead with all the belts on the line, he could make millions in step aside

so ya maybe not totally eager as can be to fight for the title if that opportunity comes up lol

Considering the current mess he knows he'll be frozen out for some time and so if he can get it in writing that he eventually gets the winner and gets a nice wedge in the meantime, then that's actually smart business instead of forcing the mandatory, which he isn't enough of a name yet to do.

Posted: **26 Jul 2021, 20:32**

BoxRec

Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam

Re: Joe Joyce Stops Carlos Takam