BoxRec

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 11:59 In the bare knuckle era this kind of injury was extremely rare because most of the damage that occurred was superficial, and you simply couldn't throw punches as much as you wanted because your hands started to hurt almost immediately.

The creation of the rules that govern boxing for the past hundred and twenty years, may make for more exciting fights and look like a more cleaner and professional business--- but has only increased brain trauma.

The bigger the gloves, the shorter the rounds, the shorter the contests, only forced the athletes to fight not only harder than they normally would have but at a higher pace than they normally would have.

When gloves were skintight or three ounces at best, boxers relied heavily on body punching more than anything else--- opening up on your opponent going head hunting was quite the gamble because you would more likely break your hands.

Which is why a lot of the fight films from the early 20th century was slow paced, and a lot of clinching. These were tactical men, of course, but they also had a great deal of common sense.

Once the gloves became six ounces, then eight ounces, and ten ounces--- well you can hit a guy all day long and rarely break your hands or hurt your hands. Especially with gloves becoming fitted with foam rather than horsehair.

If you ever saw a death or serious injury in the bare knuckle days it was mostly due to pre-existing conditions fighters had, or it was due to the allowance of wrestling maneuvers where people sometimes were suplexed on their head, etc--- whereas in the passed 120 years the deaths and serious injuries have only piled up.

Headgear, too, has been a detriment to boxing on the amateur level especially because people had the mindset that it cushioned blows so they threw all caution to the wind allowing themselves to be hit instead of employing defense at all times.

But what people will do, overreacting, is to make fights shorter and the gloves bigger which in my view is not going to change anything. If anything it will make things more worse than it already is because it will force people to fight faster and harder to make more of an impact.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Nov 2021, 15:01 Anyone read Tris Dixon's book? Damaged. I have read only 3 chapters so can't comment yet but so far it's been very interesting

p4p1 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 03:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 21:45 a sh!it load of brain rattlings in sparring too

I believe I read somewhere that experts are all but certain that this is where the majority of damage comes from. It makes sense, fighters will spar most days of the week and a handful of times in a year. Did the guys who used to fight nearly every week still bother sparring? I would predict maybe not due to the danger of a cut or something like that ruling them out for the next week. It could help explain why some guys who had 100s of fights appeared OK damage wise compared to others who didn't.

I also have a theory, that is admittedly not based on any evidence other than my own thoughts that the trauma done earlier in life ie guys that start fighting from 10-14 or earlier (Benitez being a great example) has a worse impact than if that same damage was done to a fighter that was fully grown. I'm not sure if it's true or not but it is just a theory I have.

JMac wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 12:55

p4p1 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 03:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 21:45 a sh!it load of brain rattlings in sparring too

I believe I read somewhere that experts are all but certain that this is where the majority of damage comes from. It makes sense, fighters will spar most days of the week and a handful of times in a year. Did the guys who used to fight nearly every week still bother sparring? I would predict maybe not due to the danger of a cut or something like that ruling them out for the next week. It could help explain why some guys who had 100s of fights appeared OK damage wise compared to others who didn't.

I also have a theory, that is admittedly not based on any evidence other than my own thoughts that the trauma done earlier in life ie guys that start fighting from 10-14 or earlier (Benitez being a great example) has a worse impact than if that same damage was done to a fighter that was fully grown. I'm not sure if it's true or not but it is just a theory I have.

I've been involved with boxing for over 40 years from amateur boxer to referee/judge to coach . I've seen too many boxers who started at young ages like Meldrick Taylor and many others who had extensive amateur careers to long pro careers who now slur their speech and some are in a bad way. I used to see Meldrick when he was like 12 in the gym and later refed some of his amateur fights and even was substitute teacher in his high school. I was in Vegas when he made the Olympic team and we went out to celebrate. It's sad to see him now. He preaches on street corners and was arrested a year or two ago for getting into a physical confrontation on the streets, maybe with his landlord or something. I've seen it with other guys I knew who were top ranked amateurs and later good pros. My son asked me if he could box when he was 10. I told him not at that age and to wait until he's older. He is now 21 and boxing for a university team and doing well. He won't fight pro.

JMac wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 12:55

p4p1 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 03:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 21:45 a sh!it load of brain rattlings in sparring too

I believe I read somewhere that experts are all but certain that this is where the majority of damage comes from. It makes sense, fighters will spar most days of the week and a handful of times in a year. Did the guys who used to fight nearly every week still bother sparring? I would predict maybe not due to the danger of a cut or something like that ruling them out for the next week. It could help explain why some guys who had 100s of fights appeared OK damage wise compared to others who didn't.

I also have a theory, that is admittedly not based on any evidence other than my own thoughts that the trauma done earlier in life ie guys that start fighting from 10-14 or earlier (Benitez being a great example) has a worse impact than if that same damage was done to a fighter that was fully grown. I'm not sure if it's true or not but it is just a theory I have.

I've been involved with boxing for over 40 years from amateur boxer to referee/judge to coach . I've seen too many boxers who started at young ages like Meldrick Taylor and many others who had extensive amateur careers to long pro careers who now slur their speech and some are in a bad way. I used to see Meldrick when he was like 12 in the gym and later refed some of his amateur fights and even was substitute teacher in his high school. I was in Vegas when he made the Olympic team and we went out to celebrate. It's sad to see him now. He preaches on street corners and was arrested a year or two ago for getting into a physical confrontation on the streets, maybe with his landlord or something. I've seen it with other guys I knew who were top ranked amateurs and later good pros. My son asked me if he could box when he was 10. I told him not at that age and to wait until he's older. He is now 21 and boxing for a university team and doing well. He won't fight pro.

Controversial wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 15:09

JMac wrote: ↑22 Nov 2021, 12:55

p4p1 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 03:38

I believe I read somewhere that experts are all but certain that this is where the majority of damage comes from. It makes sense, fighters will spar most days of the week and a handful of times in a year. Did the guys who used to fight nearly every week still bother sparring? I would predict maybe not due to the danger of a cut or something like that ruling them out for the next week. It could help explain why some guys who had 100s of fights appeared OK damage wise compared to others who didn't.

I also have a theory, that is admittedly not based on any evidence other than my own thoughts that the trauma done earlier in life ie guys that start fighting from 10-14 or earlier (Benitez being a great example) has a worse impact than if that same damage was done to a fighter that was fully grown. I'm not sure if it's true or not but it is just a theory I have.

I've been involved with boxing for over 40 years from amateur boxer to referee/judge to coach . I've seen too many boxers who started at young ages like Meldrick Taylor and many others who had extensive amateur careers to long pro careers who now slur their speech and some are in a bad way. I used to see Meldrick when he was like 12 in the gym and later refed some of his amateur fights and even was substitute teacher in his high school. I was in Vegas when he made the Olympic team and we went out to celebrate. It's sad to see him now. He preaches on street corners and was arrested a year or two ago for getting into a physical confrontation on the streets, maybe with his landlord or something. I've seen it with other guys I knew who were top ranked amateurs and later good pros. My son asked me if he could box when he was 10. I told him not at that age and to wait until he's older. He is now 21 and boxing for a university team and doing well. He won't fight pro.

Blimey I didn't realise Meldrick Taylor was in a bad way too, thats sad to hear. Would you be concerned if your son decided to turn pro?

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑21 Nov 2021, 07:08

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 11:59 In the bare knuckle era this kind of injury was extremely rare because most of the damage that occurred was superficial, and you simply couldn't throw punches as much as you wanted because your hands started to hurt almost immediately.

The creation of the rules that govern boxing for the past hundred and twenty years, may make for more exciting fights and look like a more cleaner and professional business--- but has only increased brain trauma.

The bigger the gloves, the shorter the rounds, the shorter the contests, only forced the athletes to fight not only harder than they normally would have but at a higher pace than they normally would have.

When gloves were skintight or three ounces at best, boxers relied heavily on body punching more than anything else--- opening up on your opponent going head hunting was quite the gamble because you would more likely break your hands.

Which is why a lot of the fight films from the early 20th century was slow paced, and a lot of clinching. These were tactical men, of course, but they also had a great deal of common sense.

Once the gloves became six ounces, then eight ounces, and ten ounces--- well you can hit a guy all day long and rarely break your hands or hurt your hands. Especially with gloves becoming fitted with foam rather than horsehair.

If you ever saw a death or serious injury in the bare knuckle days it was mostly due to pre-existing conditions fighters had, or it was due to the allowance of wrestling maneuvers where people sometimes were suplexed on their head, etc--- whereas in the passed 120 years the deaths and serious injuries have only piled up.

Headgear, too, has been a detriment to boxing on the amateur level especially because people had the mindset that it cushioned blows so they threw all caution to the wind allowing themselves to be hit instead of employing defense at all times.

But what people will do, overreacting, is to make fights shorter and the gloves bigger which in my view is not going to change anything. If anything it will make things more worse than it already is because it will force people to fight faster and harder to make more of an impact.

The real difference from the bare knuckle era was that nobody gave a shit about the fighters after they stopped and men regularly died in their 30s and 40s without any fanfare. It’s ludicrous to suggest that the sport was somehow safer back then. Utterly.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Nov 2021, 09:23

But when you had two competitors who had no underlying health issues all in their prime, fighting either on turf or on a proper ring, the damage that those people sustained was largely superficial--- again the term punch drunk didn't come around until the gloved era and time limited rounds started to really take off.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Nov 2021, 14:34 It's possible that there were those who hypothesized potential brain damage from prize fighting in the 19th century and prior, but such ideas were put to the back burner because after all prizefighting was something of a fringe form of entertainment.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Nov 2021, 20:31 i didnt know college boxing still existed tbh

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 08:24 Donald Curry is in a bad way too, awful.

bollocks wrote: ↑27 Nov 2021, 02:00

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 08:24 Donald Curry is in a bad way too, awful.

Really? That's sad to hear as Curry always came across as a decent fella

Controversial wrote: ↑27 Nov 2021, 02:07

bollocks wrote: ↑27 Nov 2021, 02:00

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2021, 08:24 Donald Curry is in a bad way too, awful.

Really? That's sad to hear as Curry always came across as a decent fella

Yes, his son posted about his dad needing help

https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/f ... eet/205957

Part of the message below...

“I have not been able to figure out how to do so. My father has declined mentally since I was in high school. He now sits in jail again, where he has spent quite a bit of my childhood, teenage and adult years. I didn’t feel for him at first when I was younger because I was unaware and uneducated on CTE and mental health. I didn’t realize what was going on. I had no idea why we would sit on the phone, and he would ramble for hours. He would ask me the same question multiple times in a conversation.

“He would forget where I went to school after telling him 100s of times or forget where I live. My family members would say he would talk to himself in the bathroom for periods of time. He would randomly be aggressive to someone. Instead, some feedback I receive, or when I look at people’s comments from the internet, people say, “that’s just the way he is,” “he’s crazy.”

bollocks wrote: ↑27 Nov 2021, 02:08 A local footballer turned boxer, suicided last year. During the post mortem he was found to have a severe case of CTE, most likely brought about by the years of hard knocks he took playing football. But he was also KO'd and stretchered from the ring in his pro debut which would not have helped one bit. He had 4 more fights afterwards. RIP Shane Tuck

bollocks wrote: ↑27 Nov 2021, 02:16 [
There's an obscene amount of money in boxing but unfortunately it's right at the very top. It'd be good to see some of it funneled into boxers' lives after their careers are over. Plenty have tried to get something up and running but it's always been on a small scale due to the fractured nature of boxing. It needs a central body or government department to arrange and run it

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Nov 2021, 15:01 Anyone read Tris Dixon's book? Damaged. I have read only 3 chapters so can't comment yet but so far it's been very interesting

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑25 Nov 2021, 09:23

But when you had two competitors who had no underlying health issues all in their prime, fighting either on turf or on a proper ring, the damage that those people sustained was largely superficial--- again the term punch drunk didn't come around until the gloved era and time limited rounds started to really take off.