BoxRec

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Jan 2022, 09:18 The great Muhammad Ali lost twice in a row to Ken Norton in my view and achieved great things when he beat the great George Foreman.

To me, Norton won the 3 fights with The Greatest.

But he didn't lose back to back fights. We are dealing in facts here darling.

595179 wrote: ↑29 Jan 2022, 17:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Jan 2022, 09:18 The great Muhammad Ali lost twice in a row to Ken Norton in my view and achieved great things when he beat the great George Foreman.

To me, Norton won the 3 fights with The Greatest.

But he didn't lose back to back fights. We are dealing in facts here darling.

Ali lost the first, and second fight with Norton. The judges gave the fight to Ali in the second fight to keep the cash flow going.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 14:07

595179 wrote: ↑29 Jan 2022, 17:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Jan 2022, 09:18 The great Muhammad Ali lost twice in a row to Ken Norton in my view and achieved great things when he beat the great George Foreman.

To me, Norton won the 3 fights with The Greatest.

But he didn't lose back to back fights. We are dealing in facts here darling.

Ali lost the first, and second fight with Norton. The judges gave the fight to Ali in the second fight to keep the cash flow going.

That's your opinion darling. Stick to the facts.

Walcott lost two straight to Louis. went on to win the hw championship.

Poor Floyd couldn't manage more than 5 minutes with Liston, you'd think that would see off most fighters but he had a respectable career after that.

595179 wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 14:42

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 14:07

595179 wrote: ↑29 Jan 2022, 17:15

But he didn't lose back to back fights. We are dealing in facts here darling.

Ali lost the first, and second fight with Norton. The judges gave the fight to Ali in the second fight to keep the cash flow going.

That's your opinion darling. Stick to the facts.

The fact is that he really lost to Kenny. The fact is you ain't gonna make money with Kenny. Ali was the cash cow. It was impossible for the masses of him to lose twice to the same opponent. That's the fact.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:34

595179 wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 14:42

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 14:07

Ali lost the first, and second fight with Norton. The judges gave the fight to Ali in the second fight to keep the cash flow going.

That's your opinion darling. Stick to the facts.

The fact is that he really lost to Kenny. The fact is you ain't gonna make money with Kenny. Ali was the cash cow. It was impossible for the masses of him to lose twice to the same opponent. That's the fact.

You've made you opinion known. Stop gumming up the works. Ali beat Norton 2/3 on the books. Now shoo!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:34
The fact is that he really lost to Kenny.

Oh no he didn't.

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:43

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:34

595179 wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 14:42

That's your opinion darling. Stick to the facts.

The fact is that he really lost to Kenny. The fact is you ain't gonna make money with Kenny. Ali was the cash cow. It was impossible for the masses of him to lose twice to the same opponent. That's the fact.

You've made you opinion known. Stop gumming up the works. Ali beat Norton 2/3 on the books. Now shoo!

Watch the fights again. It was impossible for promoters to see Ali losing for the second straight time to the same opponent. You are not gonna make money with Ken Norton.

Norton won all 3 fights. Like it or not. He was Ali's kryptonite.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 02:05

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:43

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:34
The fact is that he really lost to Kenny. The fact is you ain't gonna make money with Kenny. Ali was the cash cow. It was impossible for the masses of him to lose twice to the same opponent. That's the fact.

You've made you opinion known. Stop gumming up the works. Ali beat Norton 2/3 on the books. Now shoo!

Watch the fights again. It was impossible for promoters to see Ali losing for the second straight time to the same opponent. You are not gonna make money with Ken Norton.

Norton won all 3 fights. Like it or not. He was Ali's kryptonite.

Calm down darling, take a breath and remember, it was Ali 2 - Norton 1.

595179 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 05:22

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 02:05

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:43
You've made you opinion known. Stop gumming up the works. Ali beat Norton 2/3 on the books. Now shoo!

Watch the fights again. It was impossible for promoters to see Ali losing for the second straight time to the same opponent. You are not gonna make money with Ken Norton.

Norton won all 3 fights. Like it or not. He was Ali's kryptonite.

Calm down darling, take a breath and remember, it was Ali 2 - Norton 1.

'Norton won all 3' is a quite overblown idea, but the 3rd bout was a robbery.

future WBA HW Champion Mike Weaver lost his pro debut and also his second pro fight to Howard Smith
( the first by KO ,the second on points)

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 02:05

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:43

elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:34
The fact is that he really lost to Kenny. The fact is you ain't gonna make money with Kenny. Ali was the cash cow. It was impossible for the masses of him to lose twice to the same opponent. That's the fact.

You've made you opinion known. Stop gumming up the works. Ali beat Norton 2/3 on the books. Now shoo!

Watch the fights again. It was impossible for promoters to see Ali losing for the second straight time to the same opponent. You are not gonna make money with Ken Norton.

Norton won all 3 fights. Like it or not. He was Ali's kryptonite.

I don't care if I agree or not with you, just stop repeating yourself.

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 18:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 02:05

oogiebe wrote: ↑30 Jan 2022, 16:43
You've made you opinion known. Stop gumming up the works. Ali beat Norton 2/3 on the books. Now shoo!

Watch the fights again. It was impossible for promoters to see Ali losing for the second straight time to the same opponent. You are not gonna make money with Ken Norton.

Norton won all 3 fights. Like it or not. He was Ali's kryptonite.

I don't care if I agree or not with you, just stop repeating yourself.

I don't give a damn if I repeat it over and over again. As long that it got into the conciousness is good. There's nothing wrong by repeating the same thing.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 20:27

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 18:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 02:05

Watch the fights again. It was impossible for promoters to see Ali losing for the second straight time to the same opponent. You are not gonna make money with Ken Norton.

Norton won all 3 fights. Like it or not. He was Ali's kryptonite.

I don't care if I agree or not with you, just stop repeating yourself.

I don't give a damn if I repeat it over and over again. As long that it got into the conciousness is good. There's nothing wrong by repeating the same thing.

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 20:36

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 20:27

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 18:15

I don't care if I agree or not with you, just stop repeating yourself.

I don't give a damn if I repeat it over and over again. As long that it got into the conciousness is good. There's nothing wrong by repeating the same thing.

Oh well. Deal with it.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 20:50

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 20:36

elmersalsa wrote: ↑01 Feb 2022, 20:27

I don't give a damn if I repeat it over and over again. As long that it got into the conciousness is good. There's nothing wrong by repeating the same thing.

Oh well. Deal with it.

Manny Melchor went 0-3-1 against Eugene Flores in ‘88, including back to back losses. Four years later, Melchor won a world title.

This is one that doesn't quite qualify but is very interesting.

Fidel LaBarba lost to Jimmy McLarnin in his 2nd career fight. In LaBarba's third career fight, they fought again and it was a draw. In LaBarba's fifth fight, McLarnin won again.

If we're including the "sort of" cases, Eder Jofre lost his bantam title to Fighting Harada, drew with Manny Elias (he beat him, but not by enough, so they called it a tie), then lost a title rematch to Harada. He then went 25-0 (including a rematch victory over Elias), won the featherweight title and beat some solid competition along the way, including Vicente Saldivar.

If we're following the strict definition, Howard Winstone suffered two of his three title fight losses to Saldivar back to back. He then scored the vacant title the next year.

Long before he became world champion, Battling Levinsky suffered back-to-back defeats in 1911 against both Jeff Clark and Leo Houck.

Likewise, future flyweight champ Corporal Izzy Schwartz lost consecutive fights against both Henry Cantena and Willie Davies.

There have even been a couple of future world champs, who lost THREE consecutive fights against the same opponent:
Petey Sarron against Tommy Donovan.
Sal Bartolo against Maxie Shapiro.

Bundana wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022, 19:58 Long before he became world champion, Battling Levinsky suffered back-to-back defeats in 1911 against both Jeff Clark and Leo Houck.

Likewise, future flyweight champ Corporal Izzy Schwartz lost consecutive fights against both Henry Cantena and Willie Davies.

There have even been a couple of future world champs, who lost THREE consecutive fights against the same opponent:
Petey Sarron against Tommy Donovan.
Sal Bartolo against Maxie Shapiro.

Excellent work sir.