BoxRec

DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 07:00

apollo creed wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 05:52 Another important aspect: Both fighters would need to be olympic style drug tested by WADA!

No juicing !

Well, we've never seen any of them free of juices.

apollo creed wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 07:45

golden_balls wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 06:42 Usyk would've driven Mike mad in the end. if he was tiring and not getting any clean hits on the Ukrainian, he'd likely spit his gumshield out and bite the f@cker.

Afterwards, Usyk would smile and wink at the cameras, minus half an ear, saying: "I am feel. Very feel."

Usyk is a funny strange dude.

Mike wouldn't ever intimidate a guy like Usyk. Usyk has a very strong mindset.

Quite true, and Usyk probably beats any post Rooney version of Mike.

Tyson's lack of head movement after Rooney was shocking to behold. His cornermen often seemed to be clueless at the times he needed them the most.

Even decent trainers couldn't replicate what Rooney had done.

Losing the training regime specifically devised by D'Amato, overseen by Atlas and delivered by Rooney brought Mike Tyson back to being just another very good heavyweight.

Before that he was a demi-god.

No heavyweight since has cast such an aura of invincibility across the division.

https://brawlbros.com/mike-tyson-workout/

Thomastearns wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 14:07

apollo creed wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 07:45

golden_balls wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 06:42 Usyk would've driven Mike mad in the end. if he was tiring and not getting any clean hits on the Ukrainian, he'd likely spit his gumshield out and bite the f@cker.

Afterwards, Usyk would smile and wink at the cameras, minus half an ear, saying: "I am feel. Very feel."

Usyk is a funny strange dude.

Mike wouldn't ever intimidate a guy like Usyk. Usyk has a very strong mindset.

Quite true, and Usyk probably beats any post Rooney version of Mike.

Tyson's lack of head movement after Rooney was shocking to behold. His cornermen often seemed to be clueless at the times he needed them the most.

Even decent trainers couldn't replicate what Rooney had done.

Losing the training regime specifically devised by D'Amato, overseen by Atlas and delivered by Rooney brought Mike Tyson back to being just another very good heavyweight.

Before that he was a demi-god.

No heavyweight since has cast such an aura of invincibility across the division.

https://brawlbros.com/mike-tyson-workout/

It's interesting that what you say is true that "No Heavyweight since has cast such an aura of invincibility"

That's a true statement.

Ironically though, what's also true is that there have been arguably 4 or 5 better Heavyweights since Mike Tyson's heyday.

2 aren't even arguable.

Everyone compares how Usyk would do based on the Tucker fight. You think 1987 needs to decision 2022 Joshua to win? Those 2 fights would have lasted less than 3 rounds each. Usyk is reaaly good but he beat Chisora and Joshua at HW. Andy Ruiz was able to do that.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 14:07

apollo creed wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 07:45

golden_balls wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 06:42 Usyk would've driven Mike mad in the end. if he was tiring and not getting any clean hits on the Ukrainian, he'd likely spit his gumshield out and bite the f@cker.

Afterwards, Usyk would smile and wink at the cameras, minus half an ear, saying: "I am feel. Very feel."

Usyk is a funny strange dude.

Mike wouldn't ever intimidate a guy like Usyk. Usyk has a very strong mindset.

Quite true, and Usyk probably beats any post Rooney version of Mike.

Tyson's lack of head movement after Rooney was shocking to behold. His cornermen often seemed to be clueless at the times he needed them the most.

Even decent trainers couldn't replicate what Rooney had done.

Losing the training regime specifically devised by D'Amato, overseen by Atlas and delivered by Rooney brought Mike Tyson back to being just another very good heavyweight.

Before that he was a demi-god.

No heavyweight since has cast such an aura of invincibility across the division.

https://brawlbros.com/mike-tyson-workout/

Imagine a poor young man having nothing and struggling to live, then making so much money?! He was on a crazy mode of enjoying that sweet - promiscuous - wild life.

Even if Cus and Rooney was still there training Mike the entire boxing career, I think Mike's addictions and his crazy lifestyle would have still controlled him in the same way.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 14:11

Thomastearns wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 14:07

apollo creed wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 07:45



Usyk is a funny strange dude.

Mike wouldn't ever intimidate a guy like Usyk. Usyk has a very strong mindset.

Quite true, and Usyk probably beats any post Rooney version of Mike.

Tyson's lack of head movement after Rooney was shocking to behold. His cornermen often seemed to be clueless at the times he needed them the most.

Even decent trainers couldn't replicate what Rooney had done.

Losing the training regime specifically devised by D'Amato, overseen by Atlas and delivered by Rooney brought Mike Tyson back to being just another very good heavyweight.

Before that he was a demi-god.

No heavyweight since has cast such an aura of invincibility across the division.

https://brawlbros.com/mike-tyson-workout/

It's interesting that what you say is true that "No Heavyweight since has cast such an aura of invincibility"

That's a true statement.

Ironically though, what's also true is that there have been arguably 4 or 5 better Heavyweights since Mike Tyson's heyday.

2 aren't even arguable.

Lennox, Bowe, Holy, Ike, Foreman

When Mike was a young champion the hw division was semi-weak. Then he got beat by Douglas. Mike was good but also the hype was big too.

Ike's not in the conversation.

Lennox, Holyfield, Bowe, Wlad and Fury are.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 12:51 Ike's not in the conversation.

Lennox, Holyfield, Bowe, Wlad and Fury are.

Lewis fought a very much second rate post prison MikeTyson.

Ditto for Holyfield, who I suspect would have been a peak Tyson's toughest opponent.

Lewis was also stopped twice in his prime and ran from a highly lucrative rematch after the near disaster against Vitali.

It should also be mentioned that both Fury and Holyfield were more than suspicious when it came to alleged PED use.

We do all know the real reason why Fury avoided the Wlad rematch, don't we?

In fact Fury was lucky to even be allowed to fight Klitschko in the first place given the nature of his failed drug test.

In any case, Fury cannot yet be considered an all time top level HW.

Boxing immortality awaits him, but first he must defeat both Usyk and Joshua.

Never happening.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 13:11

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 12:51 Ike's not in the conversation.

Lennox, Holyfield, Bowe, Wlad and Fury are.

Lewis fought a very much second rate post prison MikeTyson.

Ditto for Holyfield, who I suspect would have been a peak Tyson's toughest opponent.

Lewis was also stopped twice in his prime and ran from a highly lucrative rematch after the near disaster against Vitali.

It should also be mentioned that both Fury and Holyfield were more than suspicious when it came to alleged PED use.

We do all know the real reason why Fury avoided the Wlad rematch, don't we?

In fact Fury was lucky to even be allowed to fight Klitschko in the first place given the nature of his failed drug test.

In any case, Fury cannot yet be considered an all time top level HW.

Boxing immortality awaits him, but first he must defeat both Usyk and Joshua.

Never happening.

Lewis and Holyfield are definitely ranked above Mike Tyson All time. Holyfield would've beaten Mike any day of their lives that they would've ever fought.

We had a thread a while back about it so I won't revisit that. The general opinion is that Mike Tyson's achievements outrank Wladimir's. I disagree with that, but the majority doesn't.

Fury is already on par with Wlad IMO. If he beats AJ or Usyk or both, then he surpasses Mike.

The issue with evaluating Mike Tyson is the pre prison Mike Tyson is for all intents and purposes a different genus than the post prison Mike Tyson. If he had an intraspecies fight with himself the pre prison Mike Tyson would f*ck up the post prison Mike Tyson in shorter order than the Spinks fight. I'd hypothetically wager pre prison Tyson would smash through Usyk at some point but post prison Tyson would be outboxed and humiliated to the point he got bitey again.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 12:51 Ike's not in the conversation.

Lennox, Holyfield, Bowe, Wlad and Fury are.

I think Ike would've troubled a lot Mike in any period. Actually I think Ike would've beat Mike's best opponents too. Ike defeated two very dangerous prime fighters in Tua and Byrd. Btw Mike was going 12 rds fights in his "prime" with Tillis and Green too.

apollo creed wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 17:42

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 12:51 Ike's not in the conversation.

Lennox, Holyfield, Bowe, Wlad and Fury are.

I think Ike would've troubled a lot Mike in any period. Actually I think Ike would've beat Mike's best opponents too. Ike defeated two very dangerous prime fighters in Tua and Byrd. Btw Mike was going 12 rds fights in his "prime" with Tillis and Green too.

Byrd wasn't dangerous and we'll NEVER know what Ike would've been like vs any of these guys we're discussing, so just stop. Beating Tua isn't a barometer.

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 22:25

apollo creed wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 17:42

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 12:51 Ike's not in the conversation.

Lennox, Holyfield, Bowe, Wlad and Fury are.

I think Ike would've troubled a lot Mike in any period. Actually I think Ike would've beat Mike's best opponents too. Ike defeated two very dangerous prime fighters in Tua and Byrd. Btw Mike was going 12 rds fights in his "prime" with Tillis and Green too.

Byrd wasn't dangerous and we'll NEVER know what Ike would've been like vs any of these guys we're discussing, so just stop. Beating Tua isn't a barometer.

I also I didn't think he even beat Tua. I had it 115-113 for Tua.

The Docker wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 15:12 The issue with evaluating Mike Tyson is the pre prison Mike Tyson is for all intents and purposes a different genus than the post prison Mike Tyson. If he had an intraspecies fight with himself the pre prison Mike Tyson would f*ck up the post prison Mike Tyson in shorter order than the Spinks fight. I'd hypothetically wager pre prison Tyson would smash through Usyk at some point but post prison Tyson would be outboxed and humiliated to the point he got bitey again.

I think so too, but I can't see him biting Usyk.
Usyk is not known for repeatedly using his head as a weapon.

This pre and post Rooney/prison issue is the single most critical distinction that so many fans constantly overlook.

It's an even more serious misjudgement than just judging Muhammad Ali on his 1970s fights.

1970s was a great HW no doubt, but no one would describe that version as 'the greatest'.

Let's not also forget that whilst Ali was out of the ring for 3 years, Tyson was actually serving time in prison.

The other thing some fight fans overlook is the salient fact that Mike wasn't even 24 when he met Douglas in Tokyo.

By that time his already destabilised life had already fallen apart after the introduction of Givens and King and the exit of Rooney and Cayton.

These days many HWs are still 'warming up' by their late 20s.

Tyson wins by body punch knockout except if Usyk works his acting skills a little bit more.

On a more serious note Tyson is cutting every movement opportunity for him similarly to how he did it against Spinks and Tyrell Biggs

The only trouble with this is that Tyrell Biggs never really accomplished anything in the pro game. And Spinks was a terrified light heavyweight.

Consider this, would 2022 Usyk be undisputed against the same opponents '87 Tyson fought?
I think he would, and with ease.

Finkel wrote: ↑28 Oct 2023, 20:59 The only trouble with this is that Tyrell Biggs never really accomplished anything in the pro game. And Spinks was a terrified light heavyweight.

Consider this, would 2022 Usyk be undisputed against the same opponents '87 Tyson fought?
I think he would, and with ease.

I don't know man Usyk won 2 close but clear chess
match against Joshua who is scared of brawling since his Ruiz loss and is overintellectualizing everything he does while he shouldn't have tried to outbox him at all.

His other 2 fights as a heavyweight is winning a close decision against an obese old man and a referee scared of making the right decision due to political context.

Some people say Tyson had it easy to become champion which is kinda true but Usyk definitively had it easier and considering his weak conditionning and the political context put aside I really don't know how he would do against the 80's heavyweight.

'87 version of Tyson, would be way too much. Speed, head movement and punch accuracy were his forte.

He would, in my opinion, blow right through Uysk.

Uysk was stopped by Matt Korobov as an AM with body shots and dropped by Dubois (legitimately, imo),

Post 90's Mike would have his hands full but Uysk wouldn't make a dent, which would be a problem.

NazNaci1 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2023, 16:24 '87 version of Tyson, would be way too much. Speed, head movement and punch accuracy were his forte.

He would, in my opinion, blow right through Uysk.

Uysk was stopped by Matt Korobov as an AM with body shots and dropped by Dubois (legitimately, imo),

Post 90's Mike would have his hands full but Uysk wouldn't make a dent, which would be a problem.

korobov stopped usyk with body shots? where do you see that

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 Nov 2023, 17:49

NazNaci1 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2023, 16:24 '87 version of Tyson, would be way too much. Speed, head movement and punch accuracy were his forte.

He would, in my opinion, blow right through Uysk.

Uysk was stopped by Matt Korobov as an AM with body shots and dropped by Dubois (legitimately, imo),

Post 90's Mike would have his hands full but Uysk wouldn't make a dent, which would be a problem.

korobov stopped usyk with body shots? where do you see that

I stand corrected. He dropped him with body shots and won by stoppage due to being ahead in punch count. The 'mercy' rule, back 2006. He did dominate Uysk.

However, my original comment on the outcome vs Tyson circa '87 still stands.

mike would be too much, but an amateur match from when usyk was a teenage middleweight isnt really much of a deal. in fact i think he'd only been boxing like 3 or 4 years at that point, very impressive to already have an international career

Mike said himself that he stopped caring around 1990. I agree with that. Too much too soon. But certainly the greatest offensive fighter I ever saw.

I'd be confident in picking Tyson and blowing Usyk in 4 rounds. Mike would probably not even respect the power of Usyk and bulldoze his way through him. He would be to powerful for Usyk. Mike had more troubles against bigger men that could tye him up and frustrate him. I think he would bully Usyk.