BoxRec

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 03:58

maverick23 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 02:51

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 14:00

Friday night at York Hall?
Its fine.

It is fine for a Friday night NextGen style show but this is the only U.K. show Sky have in June.

That’s the big problem for me with it.

Ah not enough Clarke v Wach level stuff?
I suppose wanting more of something is fine but it’s not a criticism of this contest.
Ah remember the glory days?
Bobby Vanzie, Takaloo, Wayne Alexander every week, Enzo Mac chasing Johnny Nelson etc.
I know that reads like I’m being sarcastic but I have very fond memories of sitting in my bedroom as a boy with a tub of ice cream every week watching the boxing.

The difference between that era and this one is that era we genuinely seemed to have a U.K. show on Sky every week. Sometimes there was one on the Friday and another on the Saturday. There was a lot crap but you were quickly over it and we had the occasional great fight.

I wouldn’t call them the glory days but they were good days for die hard fight fans like pretty much everyone on here is. The other thing about that era is that if the main event was a British title fight we’d be pretty much guaranteed a well matched fight with 2 guys trying their best to win. Wach was happy to just last the course last night which isn’t good enough for a main event.

It’s not that I want more Wach/Clarke level stuff, I just think that one NextGen level U.K. card from Sky Sports in a whole month is really poor.

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 04:14 Ffs

People are missing my point.

Fraser Clarke v Marius Wach is a perfectly acceptable contest at this stage of Frazers career.

It is the promotion I am having a go at. Yes I know recently heaped praise on Ben Shalom, but to have that promotion as a live tv broadcast and Clarke v Clarke as the top of the bill is Totally unacceptable.

I am surprised the executives at Sky TV accepted it

Well it was supposed to be Adam Azim as the headline, he's headlined before. Sky are obviously manoeuvring him to be one of the top faces of Sky Sports Boxing. This was nothing more than a nxtgen / prospect card to begin with.

Sky signed a lot of prospects when Boxxer came on board.

Surely, we've had worse.

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 04:14 Ffs

People are missing my point.

Fraser Clarke v Marius Wach is a perfectly acceptable contest at this stage of Frazers career.

It is the promotion I am having a go at. Yes I know recently heaped praise on Ben Shalom, but to have that promotion as a live tv broadcast and Clarke v Clarke as the top of the bill is Totally unacceptable.

I am surprised the executives at Sky TV accepted it

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 06:38

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 04:14 Ffs

People are missing my point.

Fraser Clarke v Marius Wach is a perfectly acceptable contest at this stage of Frazers career.

It is the promotion I am having a go at. Yes I know recently heaped praise on Ben Shalom, but to have that promotion as a live tv broadcast and Clarke v Clarke as the top of the bill is Totally unacceptable.

I am surprised the executives at Sky TV accepted it

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 08:18

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 06:38

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 04:14 Ffs

People are missing my point.

Fraser Clarke v Marius Wach is a perfectly acceptable contest at this stage of Frazers career.

It is the promotion I am having a go at. Yes I know recently heaped praise on Ben Shalom, but to have that promotion as a live tv broadcast and Clarke v Clarke as the top of the bill is Totally unacceptable.

I am surprised the executives at Sky TV accepted it

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

I dunno what fans are supposed to do it about it tho. I remember when Bellew-Cleverly 2 was announced as PPV, I put a thread up on here saying we should all cancel Sky Sports in protest. Think I got about 2 replies

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 09:01

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 08:18

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 06:38

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

I dunno what fans are supposed to do it about it tho. I remember when Bellew-Cleverly 2 was announced as PPV, I put a thread up on here saying we should all cancel Sky Sports in protest. Think I got about 2 replies

Don’t watch it. Boxing has been my passion for 20 years. I watched the England game last night and didn’t even record this shit. Even if the England game wasn’t on it would’ve been 50/50 between the Boxxer shite and circa 2005 Coronation Street omnibus.

maverick23 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 05:01

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 03:58

maverick23 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 02:51

It is fine for a Friday night NextGen style show but this is the only U.K. show Sky have in June.

That’s the big problem for me with it.

Ah not enough Clarke v Wach level stuff?
I suppose wanting more of something is fine but it’s not a criticism of this contest.
Ah remember the glory days?
Bobby Vanzie, Takaloo, Wayne Alexander every week, Enzo Mac chasing Johnny Nelson etc.
I know that reads like I’m being sarcastic but I have very fond memories of sitting in my bedroom as a boy with a tub of ice cream every week watching the boxing.

The difference between that era and this one is that era we genuinely seemed to have a U.K. show on Sky every week. Sometimes there was one on the Friday and another on the Saturday. There was a lot crap but you were quickly over it and we had the occasional great fight.

I wouldn’t call them the glory days but they were good days for die hard fight fans like pretty much everyone on here is. The other thing about that era is that if the main event was a British title fight we’d be pretty much guaranteed a well matched fight with 2 guys trying their best to win. Wach was happy to just last the course last night which isn’t good enough for a main event.

It’s not that I want more Wach/Clarke level stuff, I just think that one NextGen level U.K. card from Sky Sports in a whole month is really poor.

We even had the old Fite Skool mid week occasionally. Years before Hearn invented Next Gen.

Dioufy wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 09:11

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 09:01

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 08:18

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

I dunno what fans are supposed to do it about it tho. I remember when Bellew-Cleverly 2 was announced as PPV, I put a thread up on here saying we should all cancel Sky Sports in protest. Think I got about 2 replies

Don’t watch it. Boxing has been my passion for 20 years. I watched the England game last night and didn’t even record this shit. Even if the England game wasn’t on it would’ve been 50/50 between the Boxxer shite and circa 2005 Coronation Street omnibus.

I was watching the Wales - Armenia game. If anyone should be complaining about a terrible night of sport, it’s me, not boxing fans

Some excellent replies on this thread even if you disagree with me

I love a decent debate, I have even been known to
Disagree with myself

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 08:18

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 06:38

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 04:14 Ffs

People are missing my point.

Fraser Clarke v Marius Wach is a perfectly acceptable contest at this stage of Frazers career.

It is the promotion I am having a go at. Yes I know recently heaped praise on Ben Shalom, but to have that promotion as a live tv broadcast and Clarke v Clarke as the top of the bill is Totally unacceptable.

I am surprised the executives at Sky TV accepted it

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

At least with Misfits you know what you are getting. We know/fans know and the so called boxers know they are not seasoned pros but 'entertainers' having a punch up. Some fights are better than others and some are very capable of developing into a decent standard of pro boxing but on the whole this is a social media market/event format and a financially lucrative one at that. As long as all the medical procedures are in place to protect the welfare of the fighters good luck to them

Muttley wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 02:54

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 08:18

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 06:38

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

At least with Misfits you know what you are getting. We know/fans know and the so called boxers know they are not seasoned pros but 'entertainers' having a punch up. Some fights are better than others and some are very capable of developing into a decent standard of pro boxing but on the whole this is a social media market/event format and a financially lucrative one at that. As long as all the medical procedures are in place to protect the welfare of the fighters good luck to them

I don’t think that’s quite accurate.
I get the impression that many KSI fans think he is a champion pro boxer.

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 05:43

Muttley wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 02:54

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 08:18

I find your approach to this as mind boggling.

When PPVs first started a lot of people stated its not a problem and if we get the good fights why not pay. TV(executives) and promoters noted we
Would pay so not only did ppvs become more frequent, the price crept up and the standard of them got weaker.

If fight fans show they dont give a f*ck trust me sh”** t shows like last night will become the norm.

It’s my view the standard of all shows are p*ss poor and boxing in this country needs a kick up the arse.

P*ss poor, pathetic, sh*t and totally unacceptable is what professional boxing in this country has become.

I says it all when misfits can persuade tv exclusives to give them a lucrative ppv contract …. Where sky customers get fraser clarke versus marius wach.

At least with Misfits you know what you are getting. We know/fans know and the so called boxers know they are not seasoned pros but 'entertainers' having a punch up. Some fights are better than others and some are very capable of developing into a decent standard of pro boxing but on the whole this is a social media market/event format and a financially lucrative one at that. As long as all the medical procedures are in place to protect the welfare of the fighters good luck to them

I don’t think that’s quite accurate.
I get the impression that many KSI fans think he is a champion pro boxer.

I absolutely agree with you.

But at the sametime there are loads of professional boxing fans who have a highly inflated opinion about various fighters.

I have always stated a job of a promoter is to maximise to ticket sales of a figher and the way they do that is to inflate how good a fighter is in interviews.

I will say again professional boxing is in a shocking sh*t state.

Half filled arenas
Too many mismatches
Too many standard tv shows
Too many sub standard ppv shows
Too many fighters avoiding each other
Inflated ticket prices

I wont bore you what I think of the BBBofC

Professional boxing in this country has not been worse … and when i see people slagging off white collar and misfits … i am literally shouting at those professional boxing fans, TV executives to take of their rose tinted spectacles and get our own house in order before you slag off others.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 06:38

Spud wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 04:14 Ffs

People are missing my point.

Fraser Clarke v Marius Wach is a perfectly acceptable contest at this stage of Frazers career.

It is the promotion I am having a go at. Yes I know recently heaped praise on Ben Shalom, but to have that promotion as a live tv broadcast and Clarke v Clarke as the top of the bill is Totally unacceptable.

I am surprised the executives at Sky TV accepted it

It probably cost them very little, and they were up against the England game so wouldn’t have expected big viewing numbers anyway. Just something to fill a slot really.

It was only England vs Malta though

For me, the main problem with boxing is the structure.

The small hall scene is supposed to be the testing ground for prospects and those who are good enough should then get on televised bills in even matches with the cream processing to PPV. It should be a pyramid.

Instead the foundation of the sport is a sewer of vanity bouts that zare not even sport. No sports fan would watch these garbage shows and the BBB of C let it happen. The structure has gone. We rarely even get proper Euro title fights now but they were a big deal a few years back. Big bouts crop up occasionally but they don't seem to come out of any kind of order

veriton wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:08 For me, the main problem with boxing is the structure.

The small hall scene is supposed to be the testing ground for prospects and those who are good enough should then get on televised bills in even matches with the cream processing to PPV. It should be a pyramid.

Instead the foundation of the sport is a sewer of vanity bouts that zare not even sport. No sports fan would watch these garbage shows and the BBB of C let it happen. The structure has gone. We rarely even get proper Euro title fights now but they were a big deal a few years back. Big bouts crop up occasionally but they don't seem to come out of any kind of order

Great post

Spud wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:30

veriton wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:08 For me, the main problem with boxing is the structure.

The small hall scene is supposed to be the testing ground for prospects and those who are good enough should then get on televised bills in even matches with the cream processing to PPV. It should be a pyramid.

Instead the foundation of the sport is a sewer of vanity bouts that zare not even sport. No sports fan would watch these garbage shows and the BBB of C let it happen. The structure has gone. We rarely even get proper Euro title fights now but they were a big deal a few years back. Big bouts crop up occasionally but they don't seem to come out of any kind of order

Great post

True.

There is also little or no promotion / developing / building boxers.

They are either on ticket deals (and the majority retire after having fewer than 10 one-sided bouts) or there is the other end of the scale with Joshua and Fury etc. with very little in the middle.

Can you imagine the like of Dennis Andries turning over today?

He would be unlikely to get a ticket deal and would have to be the opponent, and would never get the opportunity to do what he did.

bripez wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:43

Spud wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:30

veriton wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:08 For me, the main problem with boxing is the structure.

The small hall scene is supposed to be the testing ground for prospects and those who are good enough should then get on televised bills in even matches with the cream processing to PPV. It should be a pyramid.

Instead the foundation of the sport is a sewer of vanity bouts that zare not even sport. No sports fan would watch these garbage shows and the BBB of C let it happen. The structure has gone. We rarely even get proper Euro title fights now but they were a big deal a few years back. Big bouts crop up occasionally but they don't seem to come out of any kind of order

Great post

True.

There is also little or no promotion / developing / building boxers.

They are either on ticket deals (and the majority retire after having fewer than 10 one-sided bouts) or there is the other end of the scale with Joshua and Fury etc. with very little in the middle.

Can you imagine the like of Dennis Andries turning over today?

He would be unlikely to get a ticket deal and would have to be the opponent, and would never get the opportunity to do what he did.

Will professional boxing recover?

Spud wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:46

bripez wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:43

Spud wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 11:30

Great post

True.

There is also little or no promotion / developing / building boxers.

They are either on ticket deals (and the majority retire after having fewer than 10 one-sided bouts) or there is the other end of the scale with Joshua and Fury etc. with very little in the middle.

Can you imagine the like of Dennis Andries turning over today?

He would be unlikely to get a ticket deal and would have to be the opponent, and would never get the opportunity to do what he did.

Will professional boxing recover?

It's evolving - just the likes of me don't like it or even understand it!

Look at these YouTube types - earning millions with more fans and pay per views than the top pound for pound boxers!

This shows that there is a market for boxing, just that the boxing marketeers (promoters) need to change and adapt.

Really enjoying this year. Loads of good fights.

Spud wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 13:19 I will keep this brief. Professional boxing in this country is a joke.

People are faced with friday night live boxing, having its top of the bill being an 8 round fight between Fraser Clarke & Mariuz Wach.

People can slag off Tommy Fury v KSI all they want but that fight will beat any other 2023 Uk show both in PPV buys and revenue generated.

People slag off misfits and white collar shows But at least the fans are entertained.

If I am wrong please explain why?

You sound like a clown. If you actually like good competitive boxing at all levels then there are plenty of good matches being made. Why is everyone a boxing promoter or manager nowadays? Or some sort of financial analyst breaking down the numbers all the time? Do you actually like inside the ring boxing? Actual fights? Or just all the crap around it. Boxing fans are so fornicating weird.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 09:20

maverick23 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 05:01

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 03:58

Ah not enough Clarke v Wach level stuff?
I suppose wanting more of something is fine but it’s not a criticism of this contest.
Ah remember the glory days?
Bobby Vanzie, Takaloo, Wayne Alexander every week, Enzo Mac chasing Johnny Nelson etc.
I know that reads like I’m being sarcastic but I have very fond memories of sitting in my bedroom as a boy with a tub of ice cream every week watching the boxing.

The difference between that era and this one is that era we genuinely seemed to have a U.K. show on Sky every week. Sometimes there was one on the Friday and another on the Saturday. There was a lot crap but you were quickly over it and we had the occasional great fight.

I wouldn’t call them the glory days but they were good days for die hard fight fans like pretty much everyone on here is. The other thing about that era is that if the main event was a British title fight we’d be pretty much guaranteed a well matched fight with 2 guys trying their best to win. Wach was happy to just last the course last night which isn’t good enough for a main event.

It’s not that I want more Wach/Clarke level stuff, I just think that one NextGen level U.K. card from Sky Sports in a whole month is really poor.

We even had the old Fite Skool mid week occasionally. Years before Hearn invented Next Gen.

Yeah - I think they were on a Thursday night. I remember first seeing Kevin Mitchell on one of those plus Macklin losing his 0 to Andrew Facey. Now we’ve had just one of those kind of shows in June on Sky and one on BT too.

Boxing needs to make up its mind whether it is going to stay a sport, or become an entertainment.

Tommy Fury and KSI are celebrities, not boxers. Yes, lingerie tennis between two OnlyFans models might draw more viewers than Djokovic vs Medvedev. But the tennis governing bodies wouldnt embrace lingerie tennis and allow it to masquerade as the real thing. Boxing's governing bodies don't really count for much, so boxing does allow these novelty items to be represented as equal to proper fights.

If the attention given to a fight is going to be based on how many people have heard of the participants for reasons other than boxing, then what's the point of being good?

gp. wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 17:11 Boxing needs to make up its mind whether it is going to stay a sport, or become an entertainment.

Tommy Fury and KSI are celebrities, not boxers. Yes, lingerie tennis between two OnlyFans models might draw more viewers than Djokovic vs Medvedev. But the tennis governing bodies wouldnt embrace lingerie tennis and allow it to masquerade as the real thing. Boxing's governing bodies don't really count for much, so boxing does allow these novelty items to be represented as equal to proper fights.

If the attention given to a fight is going to be based on how many people have heard of the participants for reasons other than boxing, then what's the point of being good?

100% agree, well said

Fraser 'No spark' Clarke v Marius 'cant' Wach was an absolute shite contest. On that showing, Fabio Wardley beats 'No spark' quite easily.

rhino222 wrote: ↑18 Jun 2023, 18:32 Fraser 'No spark' Clarke v Marius 'cant' Wach was an absolute shite contest. On that showing, Fabio Wardley beats 'No spark' quite easily.

Decent learning fight, just shouldn't have been top of the bill