Fury's legacy after the Usyk fight

[CaptainSpacerod]

He has a pretty good legacy if you ask me.

Who should he have fought who he hasn’t fought ? People will now say Xhang or Parker like last year they were saying Joyce but none of these flavour of the month fighters are elite. The only guy he really should’ve fought who he didn’t was AJ

It’s common knowledge that Joshua turned the fight down twice in 9 months.

I wouldn’t say it was common knowledge, nobody except those very few people directly involved really know why the fight wasn’t made. Anyhow I’m not apportioning blame to either fighter, boxers are warriors who would fight anyone.

It’s a boxing problem, all the middlemen ruin the chances of the best fights getting made

[jwfg]

He's already got a solid Legacy I'd say. If he beats Usyk it will boost it significantly. The more convincingly he beats him the better.

After that I'd say the main fight he'd need on his ledger to is the big All U.K. Showdown with Anthony Joshua.

I feel like England deserves that fight, and it would boost the Legacy of both fighters for simply being in it.

What do you think his legacy will be if he loses back-to-back Usyk fights?

On another subject, your name came up on History Play the other night.

[The Gratest]

Means jack shit unless he wins.

Or it means that he will have done something that no heavyweight boxer has ever done before.
And the handful of posters who claimed he was too scared to fight Usyk will look even more ridiculous.

What, get KO'd in a unification fight? Yeah, he certainly could go down in history with that.

He'll get sued by the Saudi's if he doesn't fight Usyk. He's backed into a corner now. Fight or lose his precious money.

[Coco]

Means jack shit unless he wins.

Or it means that he will have done something that no heavyweight boxer has ever done before.
And the handful of posters who claimed he was too scared to fight Usyk will look even more ridiculous.

What, get KO'd in a unification fight? Yeah, he certainly could go down in history with that.

He'll get sued by the Saudi's if he doesn't fight Usyk. He's backed into a corner now. Fight or lose his precious money.

And if he wins?

I guess that will mean Usyk can't fight either....

[The Gratest]

Or it means that he will have done something that no heavyweight boxer has ever done before.
And the handful of posters who claimed he was too scared to fight Usyk will look even more ridiculous.

What, get KO'd in a unification fight? Yeah, he certainly could go down in history with that.

He'll get sued by the Saudi's if he doesn't fight Usyk. He's backed into a corner now. Fight or lose his precious money.

And if he wins?

I guess that will mean Usyk can't fight either....

If he wins then all credit to him.
If he loses and loses by quite a wide margin, then it does expose him somewhat as being a tad overrated and only having 1 or possibly 2 good wins (although Wilder is looking a bit like a heavyweight Jeff Lacy now. It only took Calzaghe 1 round to figure out he was 'shit' - Joe's words).

I guess it all depends on the method of defeat, and as mentioned, being in unification fight doesn't necessarily elevate a fighter to greatness. The outcome can though.

[Coco]

What, get KO'd in a unification fight? Yeah, he certainly could go down in history with that.

He'll get sued by the Saudi's if he doesn't fight Usyk. He's backed into a corner now. Fight or lose his precious money.

And if he wins?

I guess that will mean Usyk can't fight either....

If he wins then all credit to him.
If he loses and loses by quite a wide margin, then it does expose him somewhat as being a tad overrated and only having 1 or possibly 2 good wins (although Wilder is looking a bit like a heavyweight Jeff Lacy now. It only took Calzaghe 1 round to figure out he was 'shit' - Joe's words).

I guess it all depends on the method of defeat, and as mentioned, being in unification fight doesn't necessarily elevate a fighter to greatness. The outcome can though.

In the bigger picture, with the level of competition, it will be near impossible for anyone to cement greatness.
Even if Usyk, the ex cruiserweight, cleans up the division, I would still rate him below Holyfield.

[The Gratest]

And if he wins?

I guess that will mean Usyk can't fight either....

If he wins then all credit to him.
If he loses and loses by quite a wide margin, then it does expose him somewhat as being a tad overrated and only having 1 or possibly 2 good wins (although Wilder is looking a bit like a heavyweight Jeff Lacy now. It only took Calzaghe 1 round to figure out he was 'shit' - Joe's words).

I guess it all depends on the method of defeat, and as mentioned, being in unification fight doesn't necessarily elevate a fighter to greatness. The outcome can though.

In the bigger picture, with the level of competition, it will be near impossible for anyone to cement greatness.
Even if Usyk, the ex cruiserweight, cleans up the division, I would still rate him below Holyfield.

As would I. The division had a lot more depth then and Holyfield took on and beat (apart from Lewis) practically all of his main rivals + those in the tier below. He also had longevity at heavyweight, something Usyk clearly will not have.

I was initially objecting to Doofus' seemingly indicating that merely being part of the first 4 belt unification at HW is a plus for his legacy. It isn't, but winning would be. If you're just the footnote to someone else unifying then all the recognition and glory belongs to them.

Tony Tucker
Marvin Camel
Eddie Davis

All champions/belt holders themselves who took part in historical undisputed unification fights, but all footnotes to Tyson, Holyfield and Spinks.

[gilgamesh]

He's already got a solid Legacy I'd say. If he beats Usyk it will boost it significantly. The more convincingly he beats him the better.

After that I'd say the main fight he'd need on his ledger to is the big All U.K. Showdown with Anthony Joshua.

I feel like England deserves that fight, and it would boost the Legacy of both fighters for simply being in it.

What do you think his legacy will be if he loses back-to-back Usyk fights?

On another subject, your name came up on History Play the other night.

I'm not sure what History play is. If he loses back to back Usyk fights he'll be considered the 2nd best Heavyweight of his era in all likelihood.

[Finkel]

Fury's legacy will be one full of gaps.

He beat Klitschko who won his Gold Medal when Fury was 8 years old. So then it becomes who didn't Fury fight?

Fury has Wlad
No Vitali
No Haye
No Povetkin
Fury has Wilder
No Ortiz
No Pulev
Fury has Chisora
-----
No Joshua
No Parker
No Ruiz
No Zhang
No Ortiz
No Joyce
Fury has Whyte
------
No Hrgovic
No Dubois
No Anderson
etc.

So in summary that is Wlad, Wilder, Chisora, and Whyte

Does adding a win over Usyk create an ATG legacy?
It looks kind of thin to me.

[ALI]

He has a pretty good legacy if you ask me.

Who should he have fought who he hasn’t fought ? People will now say Xhang or Parker like last year they were saying Joyce but none of these flavour of the month fighters are elite. The only guy he really should’ve fought who he didn’t was AJ

Both Fury and Usyk are clearly now slightly diminished fighters. I think Fury is less so and will win and that hopefully sets up a fight that will define this heavyweight era Fury v AJ albeit 5 years too late.

But the point is, Fury didn't fight any of those names.
He should have fought AJ years ago .. he didn't.
He should have fought Joyce .. and didn't.
Zhang the same .. Hrg .. and even Dubois.
But he didn't, so his record is thread bare. He has been lucky that his fans keep swallowing his nonsense.

Exactly, and this is the reason why i brought up the matter of his legacy going into this fight, as Fury is 35 now, we all know what that means, and he has still not solidified his legacy, meaning he is going to be judged heavily on what he achieves in his final years. The Usyk fight is absolutely a make or break fight for him in terms of his legacy. Even if he wins well, he still has more to do, and absolutely must beat Joshua now also if he wants to be ranked in very high regard when he retires. If he could add Zhang, Hrgovic and Parker to the list that would do wonders for his legacy, but i doubt he will even fight Joshua, never mind those other three.

[omalley]

Does adding a win over Usyk create an ATG legacy?

Adding 2 wins over Usyk (future HOF) and capturing the undisputed champion's crown - yes, it does.

[gilgamesh]

He doesn't even need to beat him twice. He only needs to beat him once convincingly. It would make him a lock for all time Top 10 Heavyweight IMO.

No matter what happened from there.

[tonyevs]

He has a pretty good legacy if you ask me.

Who should he have fought who he hasn’t fought ? People will now say Xhang or Parker like last year they were saying Joyce but none of these flavour of the month fighters are elite. The only guy he really should’ve fought who he didn’t was AJ

Both Fury and Usyk are clearly now slightly diminished fighters. I think Fury is less so and will win and that hopefully sets up a fight that will define this heavyweight era Fury v AJ albeit 5 years too late.

But the point is, Fury didn't fight any of those names.
He should have fought AJ years ago .. he didn't.
He should have fought Joyce .. and didn't.
Zhang the same .. Hrg .. and even Dubois.
But he didn't, so his record is thread bare. He has been lucky that his fans keep swallowing his nonsense.

Exactly, and this is the reason why i brought up the matter of his legacy going into this fight, as Fury is 35 now, we all know what that means, and he has still not solidified his legacy, meaning he is going to be judged heavily on what he achieves in his final years. The Usyk fight is absolutely a make or break fight for him in terms of his legacy. Even if he wins well, he still has more to do, and absolutely must beat Joshua now also if he wants to be ranked in very high regard when he retires. If he could add Zhang, Hrgovic and Parker to the list that would do wonders for his legacy, but i doubt he will even fight Joshua, never mind those other three.

I guess if he wipes the floor with Usyk then that solidifies him as the best of his era. If he then beats Zhang in style that helps loads; Hrg has a win over Zhang so Fury would have to spank Zhang in style ... beating Joshua is tainted now because Joshua is seen as well past it by most.

But, the thing is he had life and death with Wilder 2 out of 3 times. And Parker just spanked Wilder so its very unlikely Fury is going to show himself to be great now is it.

If Fury gets the win over Usyk he will be doing so in a very ugly fashion that won`t elevate him to the ATG levels.

[Nightmare Roy]

He has a pretty good legacy if you ask me.

Who should he have fought who he hasn’t fought ? People will now say Xhang or Parker like last year they were saying Joyce but none of these flavour of the month fighters are elite. The only guy he really should’ve fought who he didn’t was AJ

It’s common knowledge that Joshua turned the fight down twice in 9 months.

If that's the case, why haven't you mentioned it before?

[The Gratest]

[jwfg]

He's already got a solid Legacy I'd say. If he beats Usyk it will boost it significantly. The more convincingly he beats him the better.

After that I'd say the main fight he'd need on his ledger to is the big All U.K. Showdown with Anthony Joshua.

I feel like England deserves that fight, and it would boost the Legacy of both fighters for simply being in it.

What do you think his legacy will be if he loses back-to-back Usyk fights?

On another subject, your name came up on History Play the other night.

I'm not sure what History play is. If he loses back to back Usyk fights he'll be considered the 2nd best Heavyweight of his era in all likelihood.

History play is a subscription service of the History Channel. As I say, your name got a mention, fascinating.

[BigDoofus]

Fury's legacy will be one full of gaps.

He beat Klitschko who won his Gold Medal when Fury was 8 years old. So then it becomes who didn't Fury fight?

Fury has Wlad
No Vitali
No Haye
No Povetkin
Fury has Wilder
No Ortiz
No Pulev
Fury has Chisora
-----
No Joshua
No Parker
No Ruiz
No Zhang
No Ortiz
No Joyce
Fury has Whyte
------
No Hrgovic
No Dubois
No Anderson
etc.

So in summary that is Wlad, Wilder, Chisora, and Whyte

Does adding a win over Usyk create an ATG legacy?
It looks kind of thin to me.

“No Vitali”

Why not add Holyfield to the list?

[jwfg]

Fury's legacy will be one full of gaps.

He beat Klitschko who won his Gold Medal when Fury was 8 years old. So then it becomes who didn't Fury fight?

Fury has Wlad
No Vitali
No Haye
No Povetkin
Fury has Wilder
No Ortiz
No Pulev
Fury has Chisora
-----
No Joshua
No Parker
No Ruiz
No Zhang
No Ortiz
No Joyce
Fury has Whyte
------
No Hrgovic
No Dubois
No Anderson
etc.

So in summary that is Wlad, Wilder, Chisora, and Whyte

Does adding a win over Usyk create an ATG legacy?
It looks kind of thin to me.

“No Vitali”

Why not add Holyfield to the list?

Take Vitali out. It's still a long list. Luke did have the balls to fight a cage fighter and that's what's really important.

[Nightmare Roy]

Fury's legacy will be one full of gaps.

He beat Klitschko who won his Gold Medal when Fury was 8 years old. So then it becomes who didn't Fury fight?

Fury has Wlad
No Vitali
No Haye
No Povetkin
Fury has Wilder
No Ortiz
No Pulev
Fury has Chisora
-----
No Joshua
No Parker
No Ruiz
No Zhang
No Ortiz
No Joyce
Fury has Whyte
------
No Hrgovic
No Dubois
No Anderson
etc.

So in summary that is Wlad, Wilder, Chisora, and Whyte

Does adding a win over Usyk create an ATG legacy?
It looks kind of thin to me.

“No Vitali”

Why not add Holyfield to the list?

Which wins put him in the potential ATG mix in your opinion?

[Finkel]

Fury's legacy will be one full of gaps.

He beat Klitschko who won his Gold Medal when Fury was 8 years old. So then it becomes who didn't Fury fight?

Fury has Wlad
No Vitali
No Haye
No Povetkin
Fury has Wilder
No Ortiz
No Pulev
Fury has Chisora
-----
No Joshua
No Parker
No Ruiz
No Zhang
No Ortiz
No Joyce
Fury has Whyte
------
No Hrgovic
No Dubois
No Anderson
etc.

So in summary that is Wlad, Wilder, Chisora, and Whyte

Does adding a win over Usyk create an ATG legacy?
It looks kind of thin to me.

“No Vitali”

Why not add Holyfield to the list?

Take Vitali out. It's still a long list. Luke did have the balls to fight a cage fighter and that's what's really important.

As you say it's a long list.

Vitali is just there to show the generation Wlad was coming from. Vitali was active and Fury went the WBO route. I've no problem with that.

Also as you say Fury has Ngannou problems now, and imho looks like a shot fighter.

+ He has Wlad. Which I think was a commendable victory given it was in Germany. But Wlad was old, Fury popped for PEDs the previous fight, retired to avoid the rematch, and Joshua cleaned up.
+ He has Wilder and we have seen how he struggles against actually high level opposition. Half the division was in a race to get to Wilder first, Fury was a cherry pick gone wrong. Though Fury did look spectacular in fight 2.
+ He has Chisora, a high level gate keeper.
+ And a very off-Whyte coming off a crushing loss and a win over an old Povetkin.
His other popular name is Wallin who the much belied Joshua just dismantled.

So, Fury's resume was already on shaky footing when it took one hell of beating in 2023.

He doesn't even need to beat him twice. He only needs to beat him once convincingly. It would make him a lock for all time Top 10 Heavyweight IMO.

No matter what happened from there.

Talk of Top 10 ATG with a win over Usyk for undisputed in 2024?
2022 wants its fight back!

Since beating one of the most protected champions in history in 2020, Fury has added two other names to his resume: a past it Whyte and a cage fighter on his debut. FFS

Since beating Joshua in 2021, Usyk has added one other name to his resume: Dubois who lets not forget needed extremely dodgy officiating to get past former-cruiser Lerena. FFS

The discussion in 2022 was that Fury would need Usyk and one or two more like a Joyce. Joyce has been beaten by Zhang, but the man from China is a real problem and older than both Fury and Usyk. So they will age him out. Add into the mix that younger prime-Hrgovic has been waiting for a shot at Usyk since 2021...
Finally, throw in Fury ducking everyone from the WBC top 10 in 2023 to put in that performance against Ngannou and "undisputed" has become a farse.

People are really lowering the bar for top 10 ATG to get in their favourite fighters. Neither man is doing enough.

[Finkel]

@Gilgamesh, sorry, that turned into a rant.

To be sympathetic to your position, as a fan, I think Fury is a lock for the HOF. The Klitschko win in Germany, the Wilder trilogy, undisputed with Usyk. It will be a career with some fabulous moments. But that is not ATG 10 when taken in context, not for me.

[omalley]

Add into the mix that younger prime-Hrgovic has been waiting for a shot at Usyk since 2021...

IBF World Heavyweight Title Eliminator
Filip Hrgovic vs Zhilei Zhang
Date: 2022-08-20
I don't consider the very slow Hrgovic to be a legitimate threat to Usyk.
But I totally agree that HW champions must fight more often than once a year. And we have too many rematches.

[margaret thatcher]

obvs legacy depends heavily on what happens in the usyk fight.............a loss would be really hurtful and he wouldnt even be the man of his era. footnote loser in the first 4 belt undisputed. not so special when he fights a real great. solid fighter but hardly special. etc. pushes him well back.

a win and the undisputed.......the guy who has never been beat........you can count on him to deliver when it counts most. look at all the styles he deals with, etc. very different tone

[margaret thatcher]

he will be neither as good as his loverz ssay if he wins, nor as bad as the haterz say if he loses, but each side will certainly get more ammuncation if the result goes their way

[Finkel]

Add into the mix that younger prime-Hrgovic has been waiting for a shot at Usyk since 2021...

IBF World Heavyweight Title Eliminator
Filip Hrgovic vs Zhilei Zhang
Date: 2022-08-20
I don't consider the very slow Hrgovic to be a legitimate threat to Usyk.
But I totally agree that HW champions must fight more often than once a year. And we have too many rematches.

Thank you, you are correct. My mistake there. I remembered watching it on the undercard of Usyk v Joshua. Still, he will have been waiting in the wings far too long.

I don't think it is fair to say he is not a legitimate contender, when half the division was refusing to be his opponent in the IBF eliminator. Now sure some of that was down to the rosk-reward, but that is by the by.

Edit: sorry misread your post you said, "legitimate threat". Well I would kind of agree he does look too ponderous, but I think Usyk may have lost a step. He is losing his speed. Is it gradual or sudden? As you say, we need to see the fights.