BoxRec

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Jul 2026, 19:44 Really? I have said many times that there have been many really good fighters in this century. Pacquaio, Mayweather, DLH, Crawford, GGG, Calzaghe, etc.
It the heavyweight division that has sucked for a long time. But must us talk about the heavyweight division about 90% of the time. It's always been that way.
There is a reason that long time boxing fans left in droves in the early 2000s. The heavyweight division sucked.

I know that sport didn't magically get better the day I became a fan. Many current fans have no interest in what came before them. Which is fine, not everyone is into history. As long as they don't just automatically say fighters in their time are better than those before their time if they aren't, which happens an awful lot.

But you won't say Usyk would beat Mercer even though it's pretty obvious he would.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Jul 2026, 19:44 Really? I have said many times that there have been many really good fighters in this century. Pacquaio, Mayweather, DLH, Crawford, GGG, Calzaghe, etc.
It the heavyweight division that has sucked for a long time. But must us talk about the heavyweight division about 90% of the time. It's always been that way.
There is a reason that long time boxing fans left in droves in the early 2000s. The heavyweight division sucked.

I know that sport didn't magically get better the day I became a fan. Many current fans have no interest in what came before them. Which is fine, not everyone is into history. As long as they don't just automatically say fighters in their time are better than those before their time if they aren't, which happens an awful lot.

you think james toney has a bigger cruiser legacy than usyk, you are just wack when it comes to him

still bringing up that post, from what 8 years ago? At the time a lot of people agree with me. Then Usyk became a hw and became a better cruiserweight.
surprised that you have not brought up Cleveland Williams or Jack Johnson lately. You used to be obsessed with them.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 01:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Jul 2026, 19:44 Really? I have said many times that there have been many really good fighters in this century. Pacquaio, Mayweather, DLH, Crawford, GGG, Calzaghe, etc.
It the heavyweight division that has sucked for a long time. But must us talk about the heavyweight division about 90% of the time. It's always been that way.
There is a reason that long time boxing fans left in droves in the early 2000s. The heavyweight division sucked.

I know that sport didn't magically get better the day I became a fan. Many current fans have no interest in what came before them. Which is fine, not everyone is into history. As long as they don't just automatically say fighters in their time are better than those before their time if they aren't, which happens an awful lot.

But you won't say Usyk would beat Mercer even though it's pretty obvious he would.

I am sayng that Mercer would have a chance. It was inconsistent. Watch the Lewis or Holyfield fights. If he fights that well, he would beat Usyk. If he fights like he did against Ferguson, no he wouldn't.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 01:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 Jul 2026, 19:44 Really? I have said many times that there have been many really good fighters in this century. Pacquaio, Mayweather, DLH, Crawford, GGG, Calzaghe, etc.
It the heavyweight division that has sucked for a long time. But must us talk about the heavyweight division about 90% of the time. It's always been that way.
There is a reason that long time boxing fans left in droves in the early 2000s. The heavyweight division sucked.

I know that sport didn't magically get better the day I became a fan. Many current fans have no interest in what came before them. Which is fine, not everyone is into history. As long as they don't just automatically say fighters in their time are better than those before their time if they aren't, which happens an awful lot.

But you won't say Usyk would beat Mercer even though it's pretty obvious he would.

I am sayng that Mercer would have a chance. It was inconsistent. Watch the Lewis or Holyfield fights. If he fights that well, he would beat Usyk. If he fights like he did against Ferguson, no he wouldn't.

He'd lose to Usyk no matter what he did I thibk he just wouldn't lose as badly if he was at his best.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:56

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 01:13

But you won't say Usyk would beat Mercer even though it's pretty obvious he would.

I am sayng that Mercer would have a chance. It was inconsistent. Watch the Lewis or Holyfield fights. If he fights that well, he would beat Usyk. If he fights like he did against Ferguson, no he wouldn't.

He'd lose to Usyk no matter what he did I thibk he just wouldn't lose as badly if he was at his best.

He still cannot say that

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:14 still bringing up that post, from what 8 years ago? At the time a lot of people agree with me. Then Usyk became a hw and became a better cruiserweight.
surprised that you have not brought up Cleveland Williams or Jack Johnson lately. You used to be obsessed with them.

bruh hardly anyone agreed with you because it's a totally crazy position, toney beat a single top 15 cruiser. many posters other than myself have also said its ridiculous

just shows you refuse to give usyk credit and are totally biased against him for some reason, im not even a usyk fan but have to point out the obvious

now youre acting like its ridiculous simply to pick him over mercer, a guy who lost and drew with much worse fighters, come on man

And that poll was taken when?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:56

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 01:13

But you won't say Usyk would beat Mercer even though it's pretty obvious he would.

I am sayng that Mercer would have a chance. It was inconsistent. Watch the Lewis or Holyfield fights. If he fights that well, he would beat Usyk. If he fights like he did against Ferguson, no he wouldn't.

He'd lose to Usyk no matter what he did I thibk he just wouldn't lose as badly if he was at his best.

This isn't Joshua or Fury or a kick boxer who gave Usyk a lot of trouble but Lennox Lewis here.
You seriously think the version of Ray Mercer who fought on more than even terms with a prime Lennox Lewis has no chance against Usyk?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Jul 2026, 20:09

gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:56

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Jul 2026, 19:15
I am sayng that Mercer would have a chance. It was inconsistent. Watch the Lewis or Holyfield fights. If he fights that well, he would beat Usyk. If he fights like he did against Ferguson, no he wouldn't.

He'd lose to Usyk no matter what he did I thibk he just wouldn't lose as badly if he was at his best.

This isn't Joshua or Fury or a kick boxer who gave Usyk a lot of trouble but Lennox Lewis here.
You seriously think the version of Ray Mercer who fought on more than even terms with a prime Lennox Lewis has no chance against Usyk?

I wouldn't say he has "No chance" but I'd bet heavily on Usyk let's put it that way.

Mercer is a big, strong man so he certainly has a punchers chance.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Jul 2026, 19:58 And that poll was taken when?

before the one non existant one showing all these imaginary folk who rated toney's cruiser career over usyk's

the vote is 42-3 for a reason - toney beat 1 top 15 cruiser his whole career, never had any longevity at the top, never a single defense or unification, and didnt come close to matching let alone surpassing usyk's cruiser achievements. this was all true before usyk started campaigning as a heavy.

for you to rate toney's cruiser tenure higher than usyk's is just wild. stuff like this is why people think you cant be fair. every time people talk up usyk even a bit here or in boxing history you're all over in the threads getting pissy

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Jul 2026, 20:00

Seamus wrote: ↑07 Jul 2026, 21:36 You forgot 42 yr old Larry Holmes and Jesse Ferguson.

And Usyk got an iffy decision against the Joshua and almost lost to a flippin kickboxer. Whcih is now being spun into an "achievement".

And a 42-year old Holmes was actually pretty good.

Mercer was very inconsistent. At his worst, he was bad, not denying that. But at his best he was really good. He gave Holyfield a very competitive fight when Holyfield was still a great fighter in a great fight. He should have got the decision against Lewis in a great fight as well.
People should watch those fights. Or the Morrison fight.

Most people feel the Lewis decision was fair. There is a much stronger argument for him losing to Witherspoon and Wilson than beating Lewis

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Jul 2026, 22:49

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Jul 2026, 19:58 And that poll was taken when?

before the one non existant one showing all these imaginary folk who rated toney's cruiser career over usyk's

the vote is 42-3 for a reason - toney beat 1 top 15 cruiser his whole career, never had any longevity at the top, never a single defense or unification, and didnt come close to matching let alone surpassing usyk's cruiser achievements. this was all true before usyk started campaigning as a heavy.

for you to rate toney's cruiser tenure higher than usyk's is just wild. stuff like this is why people think you cant be fair. every time people talk up usyk even a bit here or in boxing history you're all over in the threads getting pissy

There was a thread several years ago about the top 10 best cruiserweights of all time. Most people had Holyfield #1. after that, people were all over the place in their ratings. People also had DeLeon, Qawi, maybe other as well at #2. At the time, I thought that Usyk needed to have more fights to make him a clear number 2. I certainly am not a huge Toney fan. It is pretty slim pickings with a division that wasn't even around until 1979, and most guys don't spend much time there before moving up to heavyweight where the real $ is. I thought a win in the 2nd best cruiserweight fight of all time had to count for something.

It was well after that when you started the poll; after Usyk had already beaten Fury.
Btw- I am glad that Usyk beat Fury. Before that people were constantly going on and on about that stupid "weight advantage" thing. You don't hear that much anymore after Fury lost to someone who weighed a lot less.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑Yesterday, 13:50

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Jul 2026, 20:00

Seamus wrote: ↑07 Jul 2026, 21:36 You forgot 42 yr old Larry Holmes and Jesse Ferguson.

And Usyk got an iffy decision against the Joshua and almost lost to a flippin kickboxer. Whcih is now being spun into an "achievement".

And a 42-year old Holmes was actually pretty good.

Mercer was very inconsistent. At his worst, he was bad, not denying that. But at his best he was really good. He gave Holyfield a very competitive fight when Holyfield was still a great fighter in a great fight. He should have got the decision against Lewis in a great fight as well.
People should watch those fights. Or the Morrison fight.

Most people feel the Lewis decision was fair. There is a much stronger argument for him losing to Witherspoon and Wilson than beating Lewis

This fight always gets swept under the rung, but most people did not think it was fair at the time in real life. The crowd was booing like crazy after the decision was announced. People were talking about this for quite a while after it happened. (Boxing was still a big deal at the time). It was a great fight and Mercer deserves credit for it.

If (and it's a big if) he fought that well against Usyk, he would have beaten Usyk. You never knew what you were going to get with Mercer. At his best, he was a great fighter.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑Yesterday, 17:30

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑Yesterday, 13:50

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Jul 2026, 20:00

And Usyk got an iffy decision against the Joshua and almost lost to a flippin kickboxer. Whcih is now being spun into an "achievement".

And a 42-year old Holmes was actually pretty good.

Mercer was very inconsistent. At his worst, he was bad, not denying that. But at his best he was really good. He gave Holyfield a very competitive fight when Holyfield was still a great fighter in a great fight. He should have got the decision against Lewis in a great fight as well.
People should watch those fights. Or the Morrison fight.

Most people feel the Lewis decision was fair. There is a much stronger argument for him losing to Witherspoon and Wilson than beating Lewis

This fight always gets swept under the rung, but most people did not think it was fair at the time in real life. The crowd was booing like crazy after the decision was announced. People were talking about this for quite a while after it happened. (Boxing was still a big deal at the time). It was a great fight and Mercer deserves credit for it.

If (and it's a big if) he fought that well against Usyk, he would have beaten Usyk. You never knew what you were going to get with Mercer. At his best, he was a great fighter.

No, he would not. Usyk would beat cleanly any version of Mercer. I have just read that topic about Usyk vs Toney resume. You have wrote it after Joshua fight, that was 2 years after Usyk cleaned cruiser division. Writing about Toney have better CW resume than him is pure madness. You are just hater who cannot give credit to one of best HW of all time