Sonny Liston VS Rocky Marciano

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Absolutley no conest. Liston beats Rocky like an overated fighter he is, Liston would either give him a boxing lesson while breaking him down with his jab and finish him in the later rounds, or Liston would give him a brawling lesson and knock him out in the mids rounds.

Liston took the shots of Cleveland Williams who hits harder than the rock with both his left hook and right hand, so Marciano isnt comming close in knocking out the steel jawed Liston.

Power - Liston
Speed - Liston
Chin - Liston
Endurance - Tie
Overall boxing skills - Liston by far
Heart - Liston (he suffered a broken jaw from Marshall and he still went the distance)

frank bruno KO 1 gerrie coatzee

Heart - Liston (he suffered a broken jaw from Marshall and he still went the distance)[/

Endurance - Tie

these comments right here explains why we cant take u seriosely











marciano KO 1 ruddock
marciano KO 1 coatzee

[Irish]

It seems you've only watched Listons fights with Ali. Prime Ali could make anyone look slow. The fact is Liston was faster than Marciano, had a ALOT more mobility and boxing skill than Marciano.

I've heard this before and must again say that I have seen MANY Liston fights, and he was VERY slow of foot in ALL of his fights, and his hand speed was at best average. He won with intimidation and power to go with some decent boxing skills. He was no Tunney or Holmes, and was much slower than Charles, Walcott or Moore. And yes, he probably would have had some success against Rocky due to his reach advantage and powerfull jab, but after a few rounds, the Rock would have been in his face and making him work harder than he was comfortable with.

You are correct that Liston was frustrated by Ali's speed, but he also was VERY uncomfortable with the beating he was taking, which was quite evident on his face when he quit on his stool in the first fight. Liston was very hittable, and Rocky could hit. After about 5-7 rounds he would have sore ribs, swollen eyes and would be ready to quit.

As I said before, you have some valid points, but I can't see a slow footed Liston beating Marciano.

ding ding. we have a winner. those saying Liston has more speed than Rocky have no clue. And trying to use his fight with charles, moore, and walcott are rediculous because they all had ALOT better speed than Liston. Plus all of them said after they faught Rocky that he was hard to hit with the jab and hard to land clean pwer shots on, so Liston is gonna have all he can do to do so. I give Liston a chance. But what I see is Rocky getting caught early an floored but continuing to apply pressure hitting whatever part of Liston available and using Liston's reach against him getting close enough where Liston cant get any leverage and stopping Liston by TKO in the 8th round. Either Liston quitting or ref jumping in.

[Rory McCloskey]

marciano had far greater heart and stamina then liston.. had a better chin.. close in power.. size is listons only advantage..and that jab.. but rocky fought well against big fighters

[theone]

Pure romanticism and hero worship. Marciano would get beat up all around the ring and get sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey. Marciano is made for him. And all this talk of his great heart is way overblown. Sure the man was brave, like most fighters are, but fighting against Walcott,Moore and Charles, 3 older naturally smaller fighters who he knew he could knock out eventually doesnt require an extraordinary amount of heart.
True heart is someone like Patterson knowing he was going to lose to Liston in the first fight, severing ties with the man who discovered and trained him, to give Liston the shot just because it was the right thing to do. Then fighting him again...that is true heart.
Greb, constantly fighting bigger, supposedly better men, sometimes only weeks apart,when he could have made a comfortable living beating guys his own size, is true heart.
Holyfield, who has all the money in the world and no reason to be in the ring even ten years ago, continuing to fight because he thinks he can win, is true heart. Too much heart.
Billy Conn, never a big puncher in the lightheavy class stepping into the ring against Joe Louis and trying to knock him out, thats true heart. Well, trying to knock him out is a little stupid as well.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Pure romanticism and hero worship. Marciano would get beat up all around the ring and get sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey. Marciano is made for him. And all this talk of his great heart is way overblown. Sure the man was brave, like most fighters are, but fighting against Walcott,Moore and Charles, 3 older naturally smaller fighters who he knew he could knock out eventually doesnt require an extraordinary amount of heart.
True heart is someone like Patterson knowing he was going to lose to Liston in the first fight, severing ties with the man who discovered and trained him, to give Liston the shot just because it was the right thing to do. Then fighting him again...that is true heart.
Greb, constantly fighting bigger, supposedly better men, sometimes only weeks apart,when he could have made a comfortable living beating guys his own size, is true heart.
Holyfield, who has all the money in the world and no reason to be in the ring even ten years ago, continuing to fight because he thinks he can win, is true heart. Too much heart.
Billy Conn, never a big puncher in the lightheavy class stepping into the ring against Joe Louis and trying to knock him out, thats true heart. Well, trying to knock him out is a little stupid as well.

yes i agree theone, marciano didnt have real heart



walcott wasnt naturally smaller. walcott was 6' 197lbs and all muscle, the guy had a chizzled physique.

[Cojimar 1945]

Brockton, what makes you think Liston could KO Marciano? I'm not a big Marciano fan but in Marciano's career he was never kayoed so it's hard to know how much punishment he could take.

[cultus]

Liston is just a nother overrated fighter in an overrated division.

"Marciano would win the:)one" is my pick. Firstly Liston would be so intimidated by Rocky wich alone could cost him the fight. Secondly.. I can't see how Sonny could outbox Marciano when he wasn't outboxed by one of the most skilled LH ever(well almost wasn't:)). Like said before the jab and the reach would take his toe but Rocky had this situation somethimes turned against the jabber wich Liston wasn't. Liston was no Mike Tyson .. he wasn't quick enaugh to get in and out or stay in and work inside cose Rocky would hurt him enaugh.

If Liston fights smart and his heart and stamina holds up he might get that slippy UD but I think not.

between: BB-s fierce atack on the disbeleaf of ROCKY the champion had forced me to rewatch many Marcianos matches and I have found some tears of respect to support he's case :P ... though Tyson would still make him a little stuart.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

between: BB-s fierce atack on the disbeleaf of ROCKY the champion had forced me to rewatch many Marcianos matches and I have found some tears of respect to support he's case ... though Tyson would still make him a little stuart.

cultus lol

cultus, what fights did u rewatch and what did u see differently



cojimar, marciano faced some hard punchers but never faced a as good a puncher of liston. IMO liston was one of the greatest heavyweight punchers of all time, even a little more than rocky. if liston landed on any heavyweight in history he could knock them out. i cant see marciano ever getting put down for the 10 count, its just hard to belive. liston could stop him though.

i mean did anyone ever see rocky hurt on film? i sure as hell didnt see him stumbling around the ring or look out on his feet. even in the 2 HUGE punches that knocked him down by moore and walcott, they were flash knockdown and marciano was more off balance than knockdown. still liston was in a different class in punching power for heavies than those guys.



i cant see liston getting the decision, if this fight goes to later rounds liston will be in huge trouble and will either be knocked out or outpointed by the late round assaul by rocky.

rockys tough to outpoint over 15, i mean he outpointed a damm good version of ezzard charless in the first fight. it took a master boxer ring technician to outpoint him over 15. the slower less mobile slugger will not be able to keep up with rockys pace for 15 so its early or expect to lose.

[dalek]

Pure romanticism and hero worship. Marciano would get beat up all around the ring and get sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey. Marciano is made for him. And all this talk of his great heart is way overblown. Sure the man was brave, like most fighters are, but fighting against Walcott,Moore and Charles, 3 older naturally smaller fighters who he knew he could knock out eventually doesnt require an extraordinary amount of heart.
True heart is someone like Patterson knowing he was going to lose to Liston in the first fight, severing ties with the man who discovered and trained him, to give Liston the shot just because it was the right thing to do. Then fighting him again...that is true heart.
Greb, constantly fighting bigger, supposedly better men, sometimes only weeks apart,when he could have made a comfortable living beating guys his own size, is true heart.
Holyfield, who has all the money in the world and no reason to be in the ring even ten years ago, continuing to fight because he thinks he can win, is true heart. Too much heart.
Billy Conn, never a big puncher in the lightheavy class stepping into the ring against Joe Louis and trying to knock him out, thats true heart. Well, trying to knock him out is a little stupid as well.

what the heck are you talking about?

[theone]

what the heck are you talking about?

What the heck dont you understand?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

don't worry "the one" was experimenting with new things last night. "the one" SAY NO TO DRUGS!

[theone]

Good one Brockton, you're a regular Donnie Rickles!

[The Great John L]

Pure romanticism and hero worship. Marciano would get beat up all around the ring and get sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey. Marciano is made for him. And all this talk of his great heart is way overblown. Sure the man was brave, like most fighters are, but fighting against Walcott,Moore and Charles, 3 older naturally smaller fighters who he knew he could knock out eventually doesnt require an extraordinary amount of heart.
True heart is someone like Patterson knowing he was going to lose to Liston in the first fight, severing ties with the man who discovered and trained him, to give Liston the shot just because it was the right thing to do. Then fighting him again...that is true heart.
Greb, constantly fighting bigger, supposedly better men, sometimes only weeks apart,when he could have made a comfortable living beating guys his own size, is true heart.
Holyfield, who has all the money in the world and no reason to be in the ring even ten years ago, continuing to fight because he thinks he can win, is true heart. Too much heart.
Billy Conn, never a big puncher in the lightheavy class stepping into the ring against Joe Louis and trying to knock him out, thats true heart. Well, trying to knock him out is a little stupid as well.

what the heck are you talking about?

I think he's trying to say that Rocky's heart was no better, and maybe not as good as some fighters, which may very well be true. Of course, he was a bit rambling and somewhat unintelligible, so maybe I missed the point.

[theone]

Of course, he was a bit rambling and somewhat unintelligible, so maybe I missed the point.

I'll double space and write in bigger fonts for those with reading comprehension problems.

[The Great John L]

Of course, he was a bit rambling and somewhat unintelligible, so maybe I missed the point.

I'll double space and write in bigger fonts for those with reading comprehension problems.

Perhaps we should stick to religion and politics?

[theone]

Perhaps we should stick to religion and politics?

Naw. I'm too curious to see how many topics we eventually agree upon. We already established our political and religious views are similiar. Where's the fun in that?

[The Great John L]

Perhaps we should stick to religion and politics?

Naw. I'm too curious to see how many topics we eventually agree upon. We already established our political and religious views are similiar. Where's the fun in that?

So far, I don't think we've agreed on any boxing issues.

[theone]

So far, I don't think we've agreed on any boxing issues.

Not sure. I'd have to go back and check.

[dalek]

what the heck are you talking about?

What the heck dont you understand?

well the post doesn't make sense.how does evander showing ill judgement carrying on fighting mean he has more heart than rocky?wtf is that all about?are you saying you'd respect rocky more if he'd have carried on way past his best and become a punchbag a la evander?is a journeyman fighter who's booked for defeat month after month a braver fighter than someone who is fighting at the top trying to win sometimes in 50-50 fights?if he is please explain why.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

i guess getting his nose split completley open by a sharp elbow and having blood running out like a faucet then coming out the next round and knocking out a hall of famer isnt real heart.


how bout fighting blind for 3 rounds against jersey joe walcott?? marciano didnt even bother to suggest not going out for the round. he simply went out there and took a licking for 3 rounds. hell even though he couldnt see he was still moving forward!!!


i hate to do this to ali but


dont u remember ali being in a similar situation except his reaction was "cut the gloves off" ali was shouting at the ref to stop the fight, and if it wasnt for angelo dundee, it would have been ali NOT LISTON who was viewed as the quitter.

angelo saved alis life on more than one occasion.



i mean hell, at least ali had the wheels to dance around and let himself clear up. marciano had to sit there taking a beating for 3 rounds.

[theone]

i guess getting his nose split completley open by a sharp elbow and having blood running out like a faucet then coming out the next round and knocking out a hall of famer isnt real heart.

I never said the rock didnt have any heart, just that it is blown out of porportion by you and a few others. Alot of fighters have fought through deliberating injuries in the ring before. You go on sometime like Marciano has displayed more heart than anyone before or after him and this just isnt true.

dont u remember ali being in a similar situation except his reaction was "cut the gloves off" ali was shouting at the ref to stop the fight, and if it wasnt for angelo dundee, it would have been ali NOT LISTON who was viewed as the quitter.

Ali did not ask for the gloves to be cut off because he didnt have heart or was afraid. He thought there was treachery at play and wanted to expose it. He was furious, not afraid.

[RazorKO]

Pure romanticism and hero worship. Marciano would get beat up all around the ring and get sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey. Marciano is made for him. And all this talk of his great heart is way overblown. Sure the man was brave, like most fighters are, but fighting against Walcott,Moore and Charles, 3 older naturally smaller fighters who he knew he could knock out eventually doesnt require an extraordinary amount of heart.
True heart is someone like Patterson knowing he was going to lose to Liston in the first fight, severing ties with the man who discovered and trained him, to give Liston the shot just because it was the right thing to do. Then fighting him again...that is true heart.
Greb, constantly fighting bigger, supposedly better men, sometimes only weeks apart,when he could have made a comfortable living beating guys his own size, is true heart.
Holyfield, who has all the money in the world and no reason to be in the ring even ten years ago, continuing to fight because he thinks he can win, is true heart. Too much heart.
Billy Conn, never a big puncher in the lightheavy class stepping into the ring against Joe Louis and trying to knock him out, thats true heart. Well, trying to knock him out is a little stupid as well.

Good post, I 100% agree.

[Ambling Alp]

I agree with those that think that Liston should be able to stop Marciano. He had height and a huge reach advantage that should help him a lot. I do think that you have to atleast give Marciano a punchers chance though.
I still rate Marciano a little higher on alltime lists. In his first several years as a pro, Liston wasn't the menacing fighter that people remember. Marciano was also more consistent. But if both guys are a their best, I would have to go with list by ko, probably in 5-7 rounds.

[The Great John L]

I've heard this before and must again say that I have seen MANY Liston fights, and he was VERY slow of foot in ALL of his fights, and his hand speed was at best average. He won with intimidation and power to go with some decent boxing skills. He was no Tunney or Holmes, and was much slower than Charles, Walcott or Moore. And yes, he probably would have had some success against Rocky due to his reach advantage and powerfull jab, but after a few rounds, the Rock would have been in his face and making him work harder than he was comfortable with.

You are correct that Liston was frustrated by Ali's speed, but he also was VERY uncomfortable with the beating he was taking, which was quite evident on his face when he quit on his stool in the first fight. Liston was very hittable, and Rocky could hit. After about 5-7 rounds he would have sore ribs, swollen eyes and would be ready to quit.

As I said before, you have some valid points, but I can't see a slow footed Liston beating Marciano.

What does footspeed have to do with Liston beating Marciano? Marciano's not going to back away from Liston and Liston isn't going to back away from Marciano. And what does handspeed have to do with it, either? Marciano was even more hittable than Liston. You don't have to have blinding handspeed to be a great fighter. Look at Carlos Monzon or George Foreman.

Let's see -- hand and footspeed are essential in boxing, even when there are two guys slugging it out like in Foreman v Lyle. I'm not going to explain the basics of boxing, or the styles of Liston and the Rock, but I would strongly suggest you watch more boxing matches -- and not just the latest PPV. You are correct that Monzon and Foreman did not have great handspeed, but I don't think we are talking about them in this thread, are we?

If you would read the entire thread, you will see great reference to Listons jab. To use the jab he would have to keep Rocky away, or move away enough to keep Rocky at the end of the jab. I think this might require some hand and footspeed. And if Liston simply allowed Rocky in close for a war in the trenches, then I would suggest that he even had less boxing skills and smarts than I am giving him credit for, because Liston did not excel at infighting.

[e.c.flurry]

well i want u guys to know i do admire rocky a lot for being a great puncher and being the only undefeated heavyweight champ

but i do see that he could be easy prey to all times greats i dont wanna be a troll but his attacks included elbowing and rabbit punch (later one was way to frequent) see knockouts of louis and charles (i think moore also got rabbit smashed)

he didnt have foot work or head movement
yes he did have a crouch leaning to the right side that would help parry some jabs he still was clumsy and ate most of them.

his right hand was awesome and could be the equaliser (refer walcott 1) but other wise than that he would get beaten one way or another by a lot of great.

foreman and liston would stalk him and mount an ranged attack behind their ram rod jabs and striking power shots all night

holmes and ali and a walcott that would not retire 25 times would dance him dizzy

tyson and dempsey would eat him up (they were more agressive and technically better punchers they could combine punches awfully well and were just ass dirty if necessary (tyson elbowed alot too) and (dempsey well point can be made that it was and era that a lot of rules like neutral corner or rabit punching didnt exist)

prime louis would knock him out yeah marciano never got knocked but against a economic accurate hard puncher consistent combinations with every punch in the book i dont see him surviving.

overall frazier is better than marciano many experts agree
truth is he only has a puncher chance against most of these fighters and well it is a really good punchers chance but most these guys could take a punch smile give it back (except for tyson)


marciano has some great names in his list (walcott louis charles moore) but these people were prehistoric and maybe some of them display some flashiness after their prime displays how good they were but they just couldnt keep it up long enough to finish the clumsy guy