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Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 11:31
by silkov
Loftgroov wrote:A lot of doormen are just thugs who shouldn't be working the door. That said, I fully agree that a lot of clubbers these days appear to be coked up arseholes who need sorting out if they are blatantly causing trouble... but just that...a slap...a punch...
It can’t be an easy job, but e.g. I've seen 3 or 4 doormen completely kicking the crap out of someone who wasn't wielding a knife and was in no position to defend himself. Why not just throw him out and call the Police? Why the need to pulverise him?
If you pissed off staff at Barclays Bank during your lunch break would they come round the counter and fornicate you up? Or call the Police?
Doormen often seem too twitchy and unreasonable. Not too long ago on a stag do at FYEO in Southampton (a strip bar) a doormen said he was going to drag me out the back and beat me up if I "walked over the stage area again". I had apparently walked across a non-elevated section of the floor on the way back from the bar that was some sort of stage for the dancers (I didn’t even notice it). He thought I was "taking the piss" despite me assuring him I wasn't, and was having none of it.
I've had plenty, and seen plenty, of situations like that. They should try and employ a few more doormen with brains.
It’s a bit sickening to hear the Stringfellows doorman was found not guilty. In a pre-emptive strike he (a huge doorman) just smashed a guy on the side of the head and kills him - not guilty? Hmmm...
I agree totally, my general experience of doormen over the years is that they are largely made up of overgrown bullies and failed athletes who really have an itchy desire to take out their aggression upon an easy target. And most clubbers are very easy targets. As for the drugs, I believe many doormen are as coked up as the clubbers and this is on top of the steriods that many of these wannabe toughies are often on too.
The Stringfellows incident sounds absolutely sickening, ....once again though money talks!.... if this had happened in some unknown nightclub in say Hounslow then the verdict would have been different I'm sure...
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 11:40
by nickd
Dont really want to go into one here, but why the fornicate did that Brazilian not stop when challenged? He ran off and down onto the trains, considering what had just happened I think they were justified in doing what they did. And the guy himself should not have been so stupid than to run away down into the tube system when challenged by the police, considering 3 bombs had just gone off on tubes!
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 11:53
by Loynesy
Nick - wrong place for this deabte, but he didn't run other than at the last minute to get on the train as the door was closing - there were no instructions to stop.
From what a couple of journalists have told me, the results of the Enquiry, if not covered up are going to be extremely damning.
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 11:58
by jamesmcdonnell
Rather like the police in many cases the people who become doormen are the very last people you would want in the job.
Violent, steroid heads who love chucking their weight around.
I used to go to a club in Shepherd's bush called Ginglik, I knew the people who owned it, and they employed these bouncers from a local security firm.
The bouncers were selling coke and pills, and were all tooled up with CS Gas, made and knuckledusters. One of them had been inside twice for GBH and drug dealing and was a career criminal.
The guy who owned the security company he worked for was an enormous steroid freak with a hair trigger temper.
I'm sure for a lot of people, it's just a sideline, or others are serious about the job but see it as just that, but the chances are you are going to get a lot of people who like the power of being a doorman or who want an excuse to kick people in.
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 12:19
by knockout
Nick: As Loynesy says, the media incorrectly reported that the guy had tried to run, he just ran the last bit to get in the closing doors... something that most of us have done many times..
Wales: With regards to the police, they all piss in the same pot as they saying goes and GENERALLY will do whatever they can to protect their own.
Of course there is an investigation but how often do you hear that the police officers get punished???
Remember the police man who got let off for doing 155mph on the motorway "to test his patrol car"... I mean what the hell is that about??
Sure Policing is a difficult job but incidents like this make you lose faith in the boys in blue.
Thankfully the security industry has cleaned up over the last years... Getting a badge has become a lot more difficult and a lot of the steroid monkeys have been shut out of the industry due to criminal records etc..
As for doormen who deal drugs, that is about as low as it gets....
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 12:41
by Wales
Knockout I dont disagree with anbything you say although I will ask you this....
Have you noticed a difference since doormen have been liscenced?
Admitedly I live relatively out in the sticks rather than in an area with hundreads and hundreads of doormen working, however, I see no difference in the attitude of the men working the doors in north Wales now as i did 5 years ago. they go to college for a 3 day course and get a ticket - job done.
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 12:50
by knockout
Wales wrote:Knockout I dont disagree with anbything you say although I will ask you this....
Have you noticed a difference since doormen have been liscenced?
Admitedly I live relatively out in the sticks rather than in an area with hundreads and hundreads of doormen working, however, I see no difference in the attitude of the men working the doors in north Wales now as i did 5 years ago. they go to college for a 3 day course and get a ticket - job done.
I dont go out much so wouldnt be the best person to ask, however I know a lot of the old school bully boys DIDNT get the new badge.
Having lived in the north west for several years i also notice a big difference between northern doormen and west end doormen..
The northern doormen always used to be big steroid bald head body building types who used to dish out the drugs ... The west end doormen are a lot more "normal" looking.. You seldom see any huge steriod boys and those you do see tend to be pretty polite.
of course in central london there is a lot of CCTV and police are never far away.. this tends to make both punters and doormen behave better than they would if its was a quieter place.
Like you say though a bully boy before is still gonna be the same bully boy now, even with the new badge... The new badge has just made it more difficult for those with a criminal record to get a badge.
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 13:06
by TerribleTerry
knockout wrote:
As for doormen who deal drugs, that is about as low as it gets....
In my younger years I was around the midlands clubbing circuit for a good while and believe me, if the doormen didn't sell the drugs directly themselves, then they took a cut out of one of the main dealers earnings in order to ensure that his trade went on uniterupted and his rivals were beaten and robbed - totally standard fair. Anyone who says otherwise is bull5hittin ya!
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 13:33
by knockout
TerribleTerry wrote:knockout wrote:
As for doormen who deal drugs, that is about as low as it gets....
In my younger years I was around the midlands clubbing circuit for a good while and believe me, if the doormen didn't sell the drugs directly themselves, then they took a cut out of one of the main dealers earnings in order to ensure that his trade went on uniterupted and his rivals were beaten and robbed - totally standard fair. Anyone who says otherwise is bull5hittin ya!
yeah was the same in manchester... hence all the doormen getting shot
Posted: 05 Dec 2005, 14:54
by Old bones Ian
i always find it amazing how many times that the CCTV that is used at the club isn't working when an assault takes place, especially if its the doorman that is accussed.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 05:05
by Loftgroov
Wales wrote:knockout wrote:Wales wrote:
Im sorry but it just dosent wash, the police wouldnt get away with it even members of the armed forces wouldnt get away with it so why do people find it acceptable for doormen to?
is that a joke, Police frequently get away with shooting people, knowing that the result will be death....
Check the stats on how many deaths have been caused by police shooting in the uk over the past 12months - I think you'll be very surprised.
Yes, but I wonder how many of them deserved shooting. I shouldn’t think there were too many “innocent” people being gunned down.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 05:19
by knockout
Loftgroov wrote:Wales wrote:knockout wrote:
is that a joke, Police frequently get away with shooting people, knowing that the result will be death....
Check the stats on how many deaths have been caused by police shooting in the uk over the past 12months - I think you'll be very surprised.
Yes, but I wonder how many of them deserved shooting. I shouldn’t think there were too many “innocent” people being gunned down.
erm I just gave two examples early in this thread
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 05:49
by Old bones Ian
TerribleTerry wrote:knockout wrote:
As for doormen who deal drugs, that is about as low as it gets....
In my younger years I was around the midlands clubbing circuit for a good while and believe me, if the doormen didn't sell the drugs directly themselves, then they took a cut out of one of the main dealers earnings in order to ensure that his trade went on uniterupted and his rivals were beaten and robbed - totally standard fair. Anyone who says otherwise is bull5hittin ya!
Yep that goes on now just as much, easy money. If the dealer gets caught by undercover police then the doorman denies all knowledge. If the dealer has a good night then the doorman gets a good payoff, simple.
Best bit about this sort of thing is, that alot of clubs have VIP bars, these are easy places to deal coke, more money, less chance of police seeing you. because if they come into a club then they have to declare themselves to gain entry to VIP part, otherwise they wouldn't get past security, once they have shown themselves them the doorman can give everybody the nod to close dealing down.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 07:21
by Loftgroov
I’ve just read an autobiography by Paul Ferris, a retired gangster from Glasgow. If what he says is true, the Police are some of the biggest drug dealers around. E.g. a police team doing a raid, recovering 5kgs of heroin, and only handing in 1kg. Where did the other 4kg go then? Of course you have to take he word for it this is what often happens, but it’s entirely believable. After all, who polices the Police?
Reminds me of Gary Oldman’s lot in Leon (though they were DEA)
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 07:26
by J
Loftgroov wrote:I’ve just read an autobiography by Paul Ferris, a retired gangster from Glasgow. If what he says is true, the Police are some of the biggest drug dealers around. E.g. a police team doing a raid, recovering 5kgs of heroin, and only handing in 1kg. Where did the other 4kg go then? Of course you have to take he word for it this is what often happens, but it’s entirely believable. After all, who polices the Police?
Reminds me of Gary Oldman’s lot in Leon (though they were DEA)
ive heard this happens. from a very good source.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 07:29
by jamesmcdonnell
Where there are people in positions of authority, you are always going to get abuses, it's just too tempting.
Plenty of people in the police do drugs themselves, I know because I've sat doing them with people who were off duty coppers.
It's got to be tempting if you seize shit loads of drugs, and you're in a position where you can make tens of thousands of pounds by selling them on....no surprises there really.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 07:31
by Coconut
Loftgroov wrote:I’ve just read an autobiography by Paul Ferris, a retired gangster from Glasgow. If what he says is true, the Police are some of the biggest drug dealers around. E.g. a police team doing a raid, recovering 5kgs of heroin, and only handing in 1kg. Where did the other 4kg go then? Of course you have to take he word for it this is what often happens, but it’s entirely believable. After all, who polices the Police?
Reminds me of Gary Oldman’s lot in Leon (though they were DEA)
Agreed, the Police need to be caught in some kind of Sting operation.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 07:40
by J
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 08:51
by nickd
Coconut wrote:Loftgroov wrote:I’ve just read an autobiography by Paul Ferris, a retired gangster from Glasgow. If what he says is true, the Police are some of the biggest drug dealers around. E.g. a police team doing a raid, recovering 5kgs of heroin, and only handing in 1kg. Where did the other 4kg go then? Of course you have to take he word for it this is what often happens, but it’s entirely believable. After all, who polices the Police?
Reminds me of Gary Oldman’s lot in Leon (though they were DEA)
Agreed, the Police need to be caught in some kind of Sting operation.
Good one.
I'm sure if they asked him he'd do it.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/SHOWBIZ/Mu ... kstage.jpg
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 08:57
by jamesmcdonnell
Don't you mean he would do-doo-doo-doo, da-da-da-daaa it.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 09:01
by nickd
OMG, lock this thread please....
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 14:31
by KOJOE90
knockout wrote:TerribleTerry wrote:knockout wrote:
As for doormen who deal drugs, that is about as low as it gets....
In my younger years I was around the midlands clubbing circuit for a good while and believe me, if the doormen didn't sell the drugs directly themselves, then they took a cut out of one of the main dealers earnings in order to ensure that his trade went on uniterupted and his rivals were beaten and robbed - totally standard fair. Anyone who says otherwise is bull5hittin ya!
yeah was the same in manchester... hence all the doormen getting shot
Yeah I saw the same thing happening in the late 80's early 90's. A guy I went to school with got his jaw broken for dealing in a bar 'without permission'.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 18:00
by steve689
And back to Gary Delaney....
He is on remand in Pentonville prison, poor sod, that place is a total shit tip and bloody rough too.
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 18:13
by Loftgroov
steve689 wrote:And back to Gary Delaney....
He is on remand in Pentonville prison, poor sod, that place is a total shit tip and bloody rough too.
Not as poor a sod as the bloke he bashed though eh...
Posted: 06 Dec 2005, 18:23
by steve689
I'm not advocating what he did mate, but he is pleading not guilty. Pentonville is no holiday if he is innocent or otherwise
