BoxRec

. Langford could, while Wills was still green, as soon as he gained some skill and experience, his size was too much for Lanford

disagree, wills was in his prime when he first fought langdford. wills was coming off a win over joe jeanette for crying out loud. fact is langford knocked wills out when langford was still in his prime, and wills didnt get the better of langford until later on when langford was past his prime.


langford was by far the superior heavyweight to wills prime for prime

ya the one, most people will favor tunney over patterson, but I dont. to me, tunney didnt prove himself enough at heavy. i think he fought only 7 times at heavyweight with only 4 of those fights being legite contenders( well past his prime dempsey twice, risko, heeney)

disagree, wills was in his prime when he first fought langdford. wills was coming off a win over joe jeanette for crying out loud. fact is langford knocked wills out when langford was still in his prime, and wills didnt get the better of langford until later on when langford was past his prime.

Wills was a late starter to the game and learned to fight as he moved along in his career. He was nowhere near the fighter he was going to be when Langford would get the better of him. His sheer physicality got him through most of his early fights even against the veteran Jeanette.

langford was by far the superior heavyweight to wills prime for prime

Even if this is true it doesnt change the original argument. In fact I believe Quarry beats Langford too.

theone wrote:

disagree, wills was in his prime when he first fought langdford. wills was coming off a win over joe jeanette for crying out loud. fact is langford knocked wills out when langford was still in his prime, and wills didnt get the better of langford until later on when langford was past his prime.

Wills was a late starter to the game and learned to fight as he moved along in his career. He was nowhere near the fighter he was going to be when Langford would get the better of him. His sheer physicality got him through most of his early fights even against the veteran Jeanette.

so ur saying prime for prime, wills was a better heavyweight than langford?


prime for prime langford KO wills IMO

theone wrote:

langford was by far the superior heavyweight to wills prime for prime

Even if this is true it doesnt change the original argument. In fact I believe Quarry beats Langford too.

i disagree with that, but i can see quarry outpointing wills

>>>In fact I believe Quarry beats Langford too.<<<

Well that's your opinion and your are certainly entitled to it, but I don't think Quarry would have a chance against Langford. Maybe the next level down of heavyweights, but Quarry was no where near Langford's league!

theone wrote:

quarry too good for wills? once again how much research have u done on wills. did u ever see wills on film?

Yes I have, read up on him too. Wills was a big strong guy with solid boxing skills. What seperated him from the pack was his size and strenght. Alot fighters in that couldnt cope with a guy his size with good boxing skills. Langford could, while Wills was still green, as soon as he gained some skill and experience, his size was too much for Lanford and alot of others to overcome. This would not be an advantage against Quarry, who was used fighting big skilled fighters.
Ive watched some film of Wills fighting, the Sharkey fight and some other clips when he was in his prime. He fought in that same awkward style most of the bigger fighters back then used to use. Dempsey, who fought more like a modern day fighter would have destroyed him. I think Quarry would have beat him also.

The Sharkey fight doesn't exist on film, and neither does any Willis fight in his prime. There only exists a clip of the Uzcudun fight and a 30 second clip vs Bartley Madden.

There were other big black HWs (the recently discussed Big Bill Tate being much bigger then Willis and athletic) who didn't come close to notching up the record that Willis had.
Willis had a lot more going then sheer size and strength.

Reasons...Langford was just too superior all-around for Quarry. Conditioning, speed, punch, skill, durability, cleverness, body-punching, athleticism...Langford outclassed Quarry by a lot...the only advantage Quarry would have is a little in size...and not much in that area, but as Langford often demonstrated...size meant virtually nothing to him, especially as little difference as it would be between he and Quarry.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:Some good matchups here.

Elmer Ray -Clevlenad Willams, Ray by KO9.

Archie Moore-Ray Mercer, Mercer by KO8

Tony Tucker-Ron Lyle, Tucker by KO10

Floyd Patterson-Gene Tunney, Tunney by lopsided decision.

Sam McVey-Max Baer, McVey by decision

Harry Wills-Jerry Quarry, Wills by decision

Arturo Godoy-Tom Sharkey, Sharkey by decision

Buddy Baer-Ernie Terrell, Terrell by decision.

Jimmy Young-Eddie Machen, Young would deserve the decision, but the judges would probably give the decision to Machen.

Roland La Starza-Oscar Bonavena, Bonavena by close decision.

George Chuvalo-Rex Layne, Chuvalo by decision.

Earnie Shavers-Tim Witherspoon, Witherspoon by decision.

Billy Miske-Zora Folley, Folley by close decision.

i think u defintley underate moore but we already beat that topic into the ground. mercer was no rocky marciano or floyd patterson. mercer couldnt even beat a nearly shot larry holmes or a old journeyman jesse fergusson. archie moore had too much boxing skills and ring smarts for mercer.

- u also underate floyd patterson and overate gene tunney as a heavyweight IMO

- i also think theres no way tucker will knock out lyle

Yes, I agree that we debated Moore-Mercer to death.
Here is my reasoning for the other two fights.
The reason I picked Tucker to ko Lyle for a few reasons.
First, I think Tucker was the best of the "alphabet soup boys". He had a great chin, good power, and decent all around skills. Lyle was easy to hit, and Tucker would have many more opportunities to nail Lyle than vice versa. Lyle also had stamina problems. I think Tucker would wear down Lyle and stop him in the mid-later rounds.
Someone else said that they thought Lyle was more durable, but I don't think that is true at all. Tucker gave Tyson his toughest fight before he lost to Douglas, and Tucker had a injured hand. He also went the distance with Lewis when he was well past his prime.
This was one of the easist fights to pick.

As for Tunney-Patterson, I think Tunney would toy with him. Tunney was fast on his feet and very difficult to hit. He was probably the best pure boxer of any heavyweight champion. He would be able to hit Patterson much easier than Patterson could hit him. Patterson had great hand speed, but other guys were able to handle it. Tunney himself had great hand speed. The only real question I have about Tunney is if he could handle a much bigger heavyweight, and Patterson was about the the same size as him.
My only question about this fight was whether Patterson would be able to go the distance or not.

The Sharkey fight doesn't exist on film, and neither does any Willis fight in his prime. There only exists a clip of the Uzcudun fight and a 30 second clip vs Bartley Madden.

Your right about the sharkey fight. The fight highlights I saw were from Willis vs Uzcudun; I got confused, sorry about that. The fight was on a compilation tape with Tunney fighting Carpentier and Dempsey fighting soemone I cant remember. It was part of an old boxing series called ko special, or something like that. My friend who was a trainer showed it to me many years ago but doesnt remember what he did with it. If anyone remembers anything about the series please let me know.

Lyle would either stop Tucker late or decision him. Tony never really lived up to his talent, and Lyle fought most of the best of the division's elite.So I have to go with Ron.

Nile4000 wrote:Lyle would either stop Tucker late or decision him. Tony never really lived up to his talent, and Lyle fought most of the best of the division's elite.So I have to go with Ron.

You are totally right. Not only did Tcker not live up to his potential, he really didn't accomplish much in his career. A come from behind stoppage of a quickly tiring Buster Douglas, SD over Orlin Norris a questionable SD over McCall, dec over Broad. Just a horrible level of competiton. His claim to fame is probably going the distance against Lewis and Tyson.

OTOH Lyle fought Ali, Quarry, Ellis, Bugner, Shavers, Bonavena, Mathis, Ward and a pretty good number of B+ level fighters from the era as well. I'm pretty confident that Lyle would have handled Tucker pretty easily.

Intersting matchups ( for a change ) .

Elmer Ray -Clevlenad Willams, Williams via KO.

Archie Moore-Ray Mercer, Mercer via TKO

Tony Tucker-Ron Lyle, Lyle via decsion

Floyd Patterson-Gene Tunney, Tunney via decision.

Sam McVey-Max Baer, McVey via decision

Harry Wills-Jerry Quarry, Wills via decision

Arturo Godoy-Tom Sharkey, Sharkey via decision

Buddy Baer-Ernie Terrell, Terrell via decision.

Jimmy Young-Eddie Machen, At his best, Young via decsion.

Roland La Starza-Oscar Bonavena, This one is close. Lastarza via split decision.

George Chuvalo-Rex Layne, Chuvalo via decision.

Earnie Shavers-Tim Witherspoon, Witherspoon via KO.

Billy Miske-Zora Folley, Folley via decision.