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Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 12:59
by jamesmcdonnell
BubiScholz wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:So tell me Bubi who is the best LH ever?
Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson who IMO also fought in LH.
SRR fought ONE FIGHT at LH....silly call, and he lost.
Archie Moore, Michael Spinks, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles (though he never got a title shot), John Henry Lewis are all names that deserve a shout.
I think Moore and Charles are probably the best candidates.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:01
by BubiScholz
TerribleTerry wrote:BubiScholz wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:So tell me Bubi who is the best LH ever?
Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson who IMO also fought in LH.
You are on crack if you rate SRR as best LH of all time. Truly bizarre.
you are right. i thought he made more fights in this division. keep cool dude, but Archie Moore isn´t a bad choice.
In Europe I would rate Darek as #1.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:03
by TerribleTerry
jamesmcdonnell wrote:BubiScholz wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:So tell me Bubi who is the best LH ever?
Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson who IMO also fought in LH.
SRR fought ONE FIGHT at LH....silly call, and he lost.
Archie Moore, Michael Spinks, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles (though he never got a title shot), John Henry Lewis are all names that deserve a shout.
I think Moore and Charles are probably the best candidates.
The Cincinnatti Cobra gets my vote
Moore's longevity and KO record deserve huge respect also
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:05
by wilse
1. Max Schmeling
Lennox Lewis
3. Ingemar Johansson
4. Vitali Klitschko
5. Sir Henry Cooper
6..Primo Carnera
7. Joe Bugner
8. Karl Mildenberger
9. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Frank Bruno
Personally I'd place Jack Bodell at no7, he beat Bugner for the British, Commonwealth and EBU.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:06
by BubiScholz
jamesmcdonnell wrote:BubiScholz wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:So tell me Bubi who is the best LH ever?
Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson who IMO also fought in LH.
SRR fought ONE FIGHT at LH....silly call, and he lost.
Archie Moore, Michael Spinks, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles (though he never got a title shot), John Henry Lewis are all names that deserve a shout.
I think Moore and Charles are probably the best candidates.
excuse me, Prof. "Mr.Boxing" McDonnell
Best European Midleweight is................Gustav "Bubi" Scholz
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:12
by jamesmcdonnell
TerribleTerry wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:BubiScholz wrote:
Archie Moore or Sugar Ray Robinson who IMO also fought in LH.
SRR fought ONE FIGHT at LH....silly call, and he lost.
Archie Moore, Michael Spinks, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles (though he never got a title shot), John Henry Lewis are all names that deserve a shout.
I think Moore and Charles are probably the best candidates.
The Cincinnatti Cobra gets my vote
Yeah, they are on a par, Charles beat Moore 5 times in all I think, knocking him clean out in one fight, something Marciano couldn't do. However Moore was around at top level at LH for just so long that it's hard not to give him the nod.
Spinks and Moorer in our era were also fantastic light heavies. Moorer was absolutely annihilating people at 175.
Moore's longevity and KO record deserve huge respect also
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:14
by Old bones Ian
For f*cks sake, don't someone start a Euro Supermiddle top ten thread .
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:17
by BubiScholz
topper123 wrote:For f*cks sake, don't someone start a Euro Supermiddle top ten thread .
no please not, I thought the same before......
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:24
by JC
No, it will entice Pringle over form the current Scene to post a deluge of Sven Ottke pictures!
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:37
by BubiScholz
Oh I miss this "Gut so, mein Junge, mach weiter so."
Re: Top Ten Heavyweight Europe All Time
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:39
by yiddo14
BubiScholz wrote:Just watched some records of some all time greats after the war in the Euro scene like Joe Bugner, Sir Henry Cooper or Jürgen Blin. And I asked myself: Who were the best of them? So I tried to make a Top Ten what is very difficult. What do you guys think about such a ranking?
1. Max Schmeling
Lennox Lewis
3. Ingemar Johansson
4. Vitali Klitschko
5. Sir Henry Cooper
6..Primo Carnera
7. Joe Bugner
8. Karl Mildenberger
9. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Frank Bruno
IMO it is very difficult to compare actual fighters with older times. How much is a Euro title in 1960 worth and so on......
Hold on a minute fellas.We seem to be overlooking the fact that henry cooper has made his way on to this list!!! Ludicrous to say the least!! Now before you all start giving me grief,lets think about this.Everytime he stepped up in class,he got stopped.He gained his knighthood and basically lived off of one punch all his life.I mean he is a nice guy and that,but he is a 'sir',yet he didnt acheive nothing on the european stage really,let alone world level.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 13:54
by BubiScholz
It´s not only the sport itself who makes heroes or champions, or let´s say personalities. It´s the aura, statesmanship or kindness that makes sportmen bigger than others though they reached the same level.
Schmeling and Cooper are from that kind, Lennox Lewis not. How much people in England love Lennox Lewis? Nobody will say "Sir" or do you think the queen will give thi that title? He was the far better boxer but he will never be such a personality like Cooper who is also very popular in Germany though wasn´t the best Heavyweight in a time. Think about that.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 14:47
by yiddo14
BubiScholz wrote:It´s not only the sport itself who makes heroes or champions, or let´s say personalities. It´s the aura, statesmanship or kindness that makes sportmen bigger than others though they reached the same level.
Schmeling and Cooper are from that kind, Lennox Lewis not. How much people in England love Lennox Lewis? Nobody will say "Sir" or do you think the queen will give thi that title? He was the far better boxer but he will never be such a personality like Cooper who is also very popular in Germany though wasn´t the best Heavyweight in a time. Think about that.
Sorry i thought this was about the best ten heavyweight boxers to come from europe.If it was down to poularity and niceness out of the ring,bruno would surley be the best heavy of all time,and ali would'nt make the top 50.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 14:55
by stujones
Thats not a bad list Bubi, I do think Lewis should be on top.
It does get difficult the futher down you go.
I would have Big Frank ahead of Wlad (at the moment) - but only at the moment, I wouldn't have Frank much higher though.
I think its just about spot on.
Just a question (please don't take the piss, I aint never seen him fight) but was Francisco Damiani any good.... I know he is primarly remember for being probably one of the worst decisions of a new sanctioning body to award the title too - but was he all that bad? Boxing Monthly had him ranked highly for a long time.
As for the Light Heavyweights, saying its rediculous to considerd RJJ the greatest of all time in itself is rediculous, James.
The guy unified the belts and remained champion for a long time. He is one of the greatest of all time and Light Heavyweight is were he had his best success. He beat alot of excellent fighters (made them look silly) and lost too fighters not in his class, when he got old.
I'm NOT saying he is the best - but he is better than most on your list of contenders, James. Yes, they are five greats - but Jones belongs in those five.
Moore or Jones for me.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 15:10
by pundit
topper123 wrote:For f*cks sake, don't someone start a Euro Supermiddle top ten thread .
1 Ottke, 2 Kessler, 3.....
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 15:53
by Autobarn
Lewis is definitey above Schmeling and well above Bugner.
Too many top European super middles, Calzaghe, Ottke, Rocchigiani, Eubank, Benn, Watson, Kessler, Beyer, Woodhall, Catley, Larsen etc
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:33
by tigerpomfret
Topper,
Johanson was k o`d by london ,last round with a minute to go,in his last fight,and london was screwed big time,they rang the bell a full minute early to save johanson,ask brain london,he`ll tell you,he complained,but because he was so tight, and he never had a manager or backup,and they got away with it,it`s pathetic,even on boxrec records they havent even put johanson was hit down in the 12th round ,how crap is that.
Johanson was offered a Kings ranson to fight sonny liston,but knew he was`nt good enough because he did a sparring session with him,
James Mac, "Lewis fought better fighters than bugner did,"LIKE WHO
You never even watched any fights 60`s and especially in the early 70`sthe ones we used to watch saturday afternoons on World of Sport on ITV,most weeks some heavyweight action was on,the 70`s was the best for heavies,FOR SURE,but i suppose you were still sucking your thum in those days and looks like you still are,GET A LIFE,and do a bit ofserious reserch before trying to tell people on here what you read somewhere
your a joke,you don`t know anything,just jump up and down stamping your size 4 feet when you don`t agree with someone else,...GROW UP .
There must be 10 at least.70`s heavies who would k o lewis....FOR SURE....
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:34
by Max Molyneux
Bruno below Carnera? Such madness! He should be higher than Bugner and Cooper too.
Especially rated above Vitali too!
Vitali was a fraud who got fame off the Lewis loss!
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:49
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:Bruno below Carnera? Such madness! He should be higher than Bugner and Cooper too.
Especially rated above Vitali too!
Vitali was a fraud who got fame off the Lewis loss!
Dumb.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:50
by Max Molyneux
pundit wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Bruno below Carnera? Such madness! He should be higher than Bugner and Cooper too.
Especially rated above Vitali too!
Vitali was a fraud who got fame off the Lewis loss!
Dumb.
Say why it is then instead of just calling it dumb!
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:56
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:pundit wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Bruno below Carnera? Such madness! He should be higher than Bugner and Cooper too.
Especially rated above Vitali too!
Vitali was a fraud who got fame off the Lewis loss!
Dumb.
Say why it is then instead of just calling it dumb!
Obvious.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:58
by Max Molyneux
No it isn't actually.
I'd prefer an opinion instead of deaming it.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 17:59
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:No it isn't actually.
I'd prefer an opinion instead of deaming it.
I guess you wanted to say "demeaning".
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 18:00
by Max Molyneux
No I want an opinion why.
Posted: 05 Apr 2006, 18:12
by states
Pundit and Max remind me of the fights at school: Two guys, always circling each other,never backing down, waiting for that first telling blow....... I just expect someone to start chanting "Fight, Fight, Fight!!"
Of course, we'll never get a definitive answer from either. Can't you two just agree that you have different views? Or does this need to go on forever?