BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

twenty six wrote:I heard first hand the stories about Ali's attempt at an apology from Joe and Marvis when they were in Sheffield a few years ago.
I give Ali the benefit of the doubt.
He got brainwashed by a certain group and naively probably believed a lot of what he was saying was for marketing reasons.
One thing's for sure, Joe will never forgive or forget.
That's despite the advice from his brother.
I thought the moment when his mobile phone answer message was played said it all, so many years on from the insults.

Ali should have manned up and apologized to Joe's face. Given the terrible treatment he gave Joe.

I don't buy into the notion that Ali did what he did just to promote the fight - he was an arrogant tool who believed he was a better man than Joe. Ali called Joe dumb, but he was played like a cheap fiddle by the bigots at the nation of Islam.

deadpan wrote:I'm surprised and saddened that Joe is seemingly broke.

I was less surprised that Pacheco came across as a sanctimonious tit. He's been perfecting that over the years.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

deadpan wrote:I'm surprised and saddened that Joe is seemingly broke.

I was less surprised that Pacheco came across as a sanctimonious tit. He's been perfecting that over the years.

The way he talked to the reporter was ridiculous all this 'strike that' 'why are you asking dumb questions' The guy was making a documentary about the fight, and his questions were legitimate.

Pachecho thinks he's the ultimate authority on boxing just because he was Ali's ringside physician. Big frigging deal mate, you were neither a trainer, a sports writer, a participant, or a conditioner, you were just someone who was lucky to ride on Ali's coat tails and make a name for yourself, which you've traded off for the rest of your lift.

The ultimate ignorance he showed, was where he said he thought Ali's taunting of Frazier with the use of the word 'Gorilla' was hilarious.

Amazing also how he called Frazier dumb, for fighting on thought blind in one eye, and then both against Ali, and yet failed to call Ali dumb for fighting on when according to Pachecho himself, he wasn't capable of passing a proper medical.

A hypocrite and a blow-hard of the highest order.

Terry D wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

deadpan wrote:I'm surprised and saddened that Joe is seemingly broke.

I was less surprised that Pacheco came across as a sanctimonious tit. He's been perfecting that over the years.

The way he talked to the reporter was ridiculous all this 'strike that' 'why are you asking dumb questions' The guy was making a documentary about the fight, and his questions were legitimate.

Pachecho thinks he's the ultimate authority on boxing just because he was Ali's ringside physician. Big frigging deal mate, you were neither a trainer, a sports writer, a participant, or a conditioner, you were just someone who was lucky to ride on Ali's coat tails and make a name for yourself, which you've traded off for the rest of your lift.

The ultimate ignorance he showed, was where he said he thought Ali's taunting of Frazier with the use of the word 'Gorilla' was hilarious.

Amazing also how he called Frazier dumb, for fighting on thought blind in one eye, and then both against Ali, and yet failed to call Ali dumb for fighting on when according to Pachecho himself, he wasn't capable of passing a proper medical.

A hypocrite and a blow-hard of the highest order.

You should read his book 'Blood in my Coffee', it is strewn with errors and he comes across badly.

Watching the doc made me realise how gullible I was as a young kid, defending Ali in every sense, incapable of seeing how flawed he was, idolising the guy really. I think he knew deep-down that Joe had more right to feel marginalised as a black man than Ali. Ali's father had a trade but Joe came from poorer stock. The final irony lies in Joe living in the black area of town, whereas Ali has moved out of the cities.

It spills over into boxing styles as well. Ali accused Joe of having a style that was not high art of science, yet after the doc I dug-out Frazier-Quarry/Bonavena/Foster and was once again amazed by just how brutal and efficient Joe's style was. No clinging on like Ali used to. Post-exile Ali could very boring to watch, if science amounts to holding and taunting then fair enough, Joe was the most destructively precise fighter in the world for a while, and let's not forget that he won the first fight fair and square, when both fought near their best Frazier defeated Ali conclusively.

Frazier was a machine, far better to watch overall than Ali. I think Ali may have been playing out his resentment over his exile, and the fact that he needed Joe for a while, then the tables turned and Ali pissed all over his former friend.

No wonder Joe is still bitter. Good to see they acknowledge that only a fool would score the first fight for Ali, Frazier clearly won that one.

BO Selecta wrote:Ferdie Pacheco has to be the biggest knob jockey in history! What a pompous & arrogant nincompoop that man is! :x

hitman_hatton1 wrote:

BO Selecta wrote:Ferdie Pacheco has to be the biggest knob jockey in history! What a pompous & arrogant nincompoop that man is! :x

haven't seen it yet so i can't comment on how pacheco comes across in it.

but in other documentaries he comes across fairly well.

he walked away from ali after the shavers fight cos he wasn't happy with ali carrying on.

decent colour commentator for showtime back in the day as well. :)

Terry D wrote:

the patriot wrote:Just watched this and thought it was fascinating. A real eye-opener into Joe Fraziers side of things.

But I thought he'd forgiven Ali years ago, I remember being given an old Boxing video (cant remeber the name) it had Ali, Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Larry Holmes all sat around talking with Larry Merchant (I think) about their fights against eachother and their careers in general. And it seemed they had buried the hatchet then. How wrong I was !!!!

ALSO - Did Lennox Lewis call Bruno an Uncle Tom?? I thought it was only Oliver McCall :?? :??

Nah, Lewis did it also.

The vid is 'Champions Forever', and it is fooking awesome.

Terry D wrote:I think I have it on DVD or on the PC. I would offer to send you a copy, only I would then forget (not maliciously) to send it, panic about your reaction at 2am one morning, and stop posting for a week. Try this instead:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Champions-Forev ... 282&sr=1-2

fatcity69 wrote:Anyone know when this might be repeated?... I missed it!!! damn! :(