Thriller in Manila: More 4 Tuesday 11/11/2008 at 10 pm

[Syntax Error]

Look out for an all new documentary about this great fight on More 4 tonight at 10pm.

Apparently it's all new so we might find out some new & enlightening stuff!!!! :P

[Hagler2002]

Elvis invents wheel on the moon

[Grilling Machine]

Thanks for the reminder.

I'm hoping it doesn't focus heavily on Ali again. When We Were Kings was great, but I wanted to see more from Foreman in that.

[black panther]

Haha with a name like Grilling machine, why I am not surprised you didnt see enough Foreman?

[Maelstrom]

Blimey - I forgot what a nasty piece of work Ali could be at times.

Frazier seems a pretty decent fellow too.

A lot of what Ali did to Foreman was out of order as well.

[sharpei_louis]

Cheers, you're a star - was close to missing that but more4+1 exists so I didn't!!

[E]

This is a good documentary. Like the way the focus is on Frazier.

I also think Marvis Frazier comes across well and does a good cosell impression.

[Syntax Error]

Great programme!!

Don't you just love the Fraziers; Marvis, brother Tommy & Joe himself!!!

I've gone off Ferdie Pacheco slightly; he was slightly disrespectful to Joe I feel.

[Old bones Ian]

Ferdie Pacheco is too much of a yank for my liking.

[Dirk Kelly]

Rushed home from supping free champagne waving goodbye to QE2 to watch this and was loving it, great story and great insights, can't believe Ali spoke at a Klu Klux Klan meeting - was that true?

Didn't realise it was on for 2 hours, ended up falling asleep 2/3 of the way through! Its on More 4 so hopefully will be repeated soon.

[twenty six]

I heard first hand the stories about Ali's attempt at an apology from Joe and Marvis when they were in Sheffield a few years ago.
I give Ali the benefit of the doubt.
He got brainwashed by a certain group and naively probably believed a lot of what he was saying was for marketing reasons.
One thing's for sure, Joe will never forgive or forget.
That's despite the advice from his brother.
I thought the moment when his mobile phone answer message was played said it all, so many years on from the insults.

[Flump]

Very enjoyable, nice to hear some of Harry Carpenter's commentary too. As much as I can handle his writing I think that Thomas Hauser always comes across as a bit of an arrogant tool when he's interviewed.

[SticknMove]

Great to see a documentary that counterbalances the uniqueness of Ali against the hardboiled, and justified, bitteness of Frazier.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I heard first hand the stories about Ali's attempt at an apology from Joe and Marvis when they were in Sheffield a few years ago.
I give Ali the benefit of the doubt.
He got brainwashed by a certain group and naively probably believed a lot of what he was saying was for marketing reasons.
One thing's for sure, Joe will never forgive or forget.
That's despite the advice from his brother.
I thought the moment when his mobile phone answer message was played said it all, so many years on from the insults.

Ali should have manned up and apologized to Joe's face. Given the terrible treatment he gave Joe.

I don't buy into the notion that Ali did what he did just to promote the fight - he was an arrogant tool who believed he was a better man than Joe. Ali called Joe dumb, but he was played like a cheap fiddle by the bigots at the nation of Islam.

I find it truly lamentable the way that a middle class man like Ali had the temerity to call a man who had it as hard as joe an uncle tom. Ali must have forgotten he started his own career being backed by a consortium from Louisville Kentucky who were white businessmen.

[Scrap]

I thought it was Terriffic, great insights. How one decision can change, or could have changed Boxing History. Eddie Futchs decision to pull Frazier First, Terriffic Documentry.

[dondada]

I thought the moment when his mobile phone answer message was played said it all, so many years on from the insults.

Spot on, 26. The film maker knew that too which is why he ended with it.

[Syntax Error]

I thought it was Terriffic, great insights. How one decision can change, or could have changed Boxing History. Eddie Futchs decision to pull Frazier First, Terriffic Documentry.

Agreed.

Eddie did the right thing as he was not to know that Ali was going to quit & Frazier just couldn't see, but like you say, the whole history of boxing could have been changed forever.

Both men were truly magnificent, but Joe was the moral victor IMO.

[bennie]

Ali apologized to Frazier after the fight when, seated on his stool, head down, he mustered the energy to tell Don Dunphy: "Joe Frazier is the greatest fighter in the world, next to me."

The way he said it, left no doubt.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I thought it was Terriffic, great insights. How one decision can change, or could have changed Boxing History. Eddie Futchs decision to pull Frazier First, Terriffic Documentry.

Agreed.

Eddie did the right thing as he was not to know that Ali was going to quit & Frazier just couldn't see, but like you say, the whole history of boxing could have been changed forever.

Both men were truly magnificent, but Joe was the moral victor IMO.

Even having seen that fight countless times - I was amazed at the intensity of it, if ever there was a fight which epitomized the savage beauty of boxing - this was it.

Ali should have publicly apologised in front of the TV Cameras and made a point of apologising to Frazier. I don't accept that his muttered words to Dunphy were enough.

Joe's face was a picture watching the fight, he was slack jawed with amazement at just how hard the blows exchanged were. Ali sure got a shock that third fight, thinking the fight would be a cakewalk. Truth of the matter is - Joe gave him sheer hell - more than anyone else he ever faced.

George Benton's face was a picture as well - he just couldn't believe what he was seeing.

Futch did the right thing pulling Frazier out - he was taking so many clean shots and he could have died as a result of that beating whether he finished the fight or not, as Futch said - he'd seen eight men die and had no regrets - although in fairness, I've seen a video where Futch had said he wished he had gotten Frazier off his stool at the end of the 14th and had him bouncing around in the corner.

Ferdie Pachecho came across as a real classless dick in there - a pompous self-inflated man who bathed in Ali's reflected glory - and refused to admit, even to himself - that Ali's treatment of Frazier was despicable. A real heel.

[Chambers2]

Damn I missed this, who won?

[rob h]

Did anybody see Storyville last year? It was showing behind the scenes about Clay and Liston and The rumble in the jungle.

Very interestin stuff in the changing rooms before the first Liston fight.

[SticknMove]

I know what happened was of its time with everything that entails But surely Ali should have found it within himself to apologise privately to Frazier. If what Ali did was only about selling the rivalry then that wouldn't have been a hard gap to bridge. Ali was a cruel man. A very intelligent but uneducated man with an ego as big as a planet that fitted his position in the context of those times.

[Syntax Error]

Did anybody see Storyville last year? It was showing behind the scenes about Clay and Liston and The rumble in the jungle.

Very interestin stuff in the changing rooms before the first Liston fight.

I saw that Storyville documentary you were talking about: good stuff it was also.

[Old bones Ian]

Just because Ali has apologised doesn't mean that Frazier should be friends with him, or should forget what happened.

Ali taunted Frazier beyond acceptable behavior, you can see how much it hurt Joe , who wasn't the most articulate of people, so couldn't combat Ali with his own responses.

I've seen a few docomentaries and interviews with Joe, and this subject always gets brought up, so he has never been able to draw a line under it, as the general public won't let him.
Joe comes across as a decent guy, who just happened to be one of the best heavyweight boxers ever.

[deadpan]

I'm surprised and saddened that Joe is seemingly broke.

I was less surprised that Pacheco came across as a sanctimonious tit. He's been perfecting that over the years.