BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:correct, observe guys like pernell whitaker and many others with blinding speed but not big power.

Fast hands has never guaranteed power. Khan just isn't a big hitter fullstop, and Kotelnik has probably fought at least 10 guys who hit harder.

Watch this video of Kevin Kelley.......

This is the point i was trying to make, with regards to Speed = Power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOD47ZECg0&feature=fvsr

Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.

On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.

And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?

Force = mass x acceleration but when it comes to boxing and punching I think it needs to be combined with momentum which helps increases or decreases mass contribution. using both is what makes fighters powerful IMO.

crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.

On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.

And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?

good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.

I don't think Khan has much power at all. Even at the relatively low level he's operated, most of his opponents have been stopped on their feet, with the ref waving the fight off.

As for the Kotelnik fight, I see an exhausted Khan being stopped between rounds 8 and 10. To me, he looked spent when the Limond fight was halted and was breathing very heavily when the MAB farce was finally brought to its unsatisfactory conclusion. This time, though, his opponent should prevail.

I think it could be a UD with Kotelnik winning. I can see him comming on strong in the later rounds having answered everything Khan has to offer. I can see Khan going down late in the fight but he may survive for the final bell. Apart from Prescott, Kotelnik is the biggest fighter Khan has faced. Khan also hasnt fought at this level before, with the exeption of MAB which was clearly rigged in favour of Khan after the cut. Khan has speed but lacks power and still leaves his chin unprotected. My bet is Kotelnik will slow Khan down with body punches, he may go for a late KO but if ahead on points he may opt for safety. To win this Khan will need help from the ref to get a contraversial decision, you know what I mean a flurry of pitter patter punches, which would be awful.

WildWaylon wrote:I think it could be a UD with Kotelnik winning. I can see him comming on strong in the later rounds having answered everything Khan has to offer. I can see Khan going down late in the fight but he may survive for the final bell. Apart from Prescott, Kotelnik is the biggest fighter Khan has faced. Khan also hasnt fought at this level before, with the exeption of MAB which was clearly rigged in favour of Khan after the cut. Khan has speed but lacks power and still leaves his chin unprotected. My bet is Kotelnik will slow Khan down with body punches, he may go for a late KO but if ahead on points he may opt for safety. To win this Khan will need help from the ref to get a contraversial decision, you know what I mean a flurry of pitter patter punches, which would be awful.

If it gets to the late rounds, I think 'opting for safety' will be Kotelnik going for the KO, not surviving to suffer a dodgy decision.

Kotelnik is a decent boxer but he's there to be beat. Khan should be able to use his speed early to put enough rounds in the bank to make it an easy nights work. Kotelnik has to be more aggressive than he has shown in the past if he wants to win this. He can't afford to be chasing the fight late on and certainly can't let the fight drift along, as he has done in previous bouts. He has to force Khan to work, even if he's getting hit on the way in. If Kotelnik is to win he has to test Khans stamina and the only way to do that is to make him work.... Of course, if Kotelnik can land a few solid right hands it could be an early night anyway, although Kotelnik doesn't have much on his punches, it doesn't take much to hurt Khan.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:I think it could be a UD with Kotelnik winning. I can see him comming on strong in the later rounds having answered everything Khan has to offer. I can see Khan going down late in the fight but he may survive for the final bell. Apart from Prescott, Kotelnik is the biggest fighter Khan has faced. Khan also hasnt fought at this level before, with the exeption of MAB which was clearly rigged in favour of Khan after the cut. Khan has speed but lacks power and still leaves his chin unprotected. My bet is Kotelnik will slow Khan down with body punches, he may go for a late KO but if ahead on points he may opt for safety. To win this Khan will need help from the ref to get a contraversial decision, you know what I mean a flurry of pitter patter punches, which would be awful.

If it gets to the late rounds, I think 'opting for safety' will be Kotelnik going for the KO, not surviving to suffer a dodgy decision.

You could well be right. I was overlooking the support he would get from the judges as well as the ref.

Gavin Rees has fast hands but that wasnt a problem for Kotelnik. Khans style and speed wont bother him, he will cope well and slow him down with body punches. Witter on the other hand proved difficult for Kotelnik as he would if he fought Khan. The main difference between Rees and Khan is size, but Rees can take a shot. Although Kotelnik lost against Witter and M Bae he was not stopped by either man. I therefore cant see Khan forcing the stoppage win, he can only win on points. If Kotelnik could deal with the speed of Gavin Rees I am sure he will have an answer to Khans speed. I am still far from convinced Khan is World class.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.

On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.

And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?

good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.

Riddock, after reading these posts, i have to admit i was wrong in asserting that speed = power. Having thought about about it, i agree with your post above, in that it's a very complicated science, as to how a fighter delivers power, because all fighters are different. My point about Khan was that he will stop a lot of his oppopents because of the hand speed and as you said in a previous reply, it's the punch that they don't see, which knocks them out or the sheer volume of unanswered punches, causes the referee to intervene and stop the fight, as was the case with the Michael Gomez fight. I have never boxed or trained and am an enthusiastic boxing fan, but i'm still learning about the sport and it's through these debates that i learn more. Did you watch the Kevein Kelley video ? What did you think ?

Quixall wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.

On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.

And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?

good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.

Riddock, after reading these posts, i have to admit i was wrong in asserting that speed = power. Having thought about about it, i agree with your post above, in that it's a very complicated science, as to how a fighter delivers power, because all fighters are different. My point about Khan was that he will stop a lot of his oppopents because of the hand speed and as you said in a previous reply, it's the punch that they don't see, which knocks them out or the sheer volume of unanswered punches, causes the referee to intervene and stop the fight, as was the case with the Michael Gomez fight. I have never boxed or trained and am an enthusiastic boxing fan, but i'm still learning about the sport and it's through these debates that i learn more. Did you watch the Kevein Kelley video ? What did you think ?

I have always believed power starts with the legs and follows through. Mike Tyson is a good example of this.

Naseem Hamed had big legs for his weight and maybe derived some of his power throught that.

Kotelnik isn't very good. He's the worst world champion Khan could fight. It's an extremely risky fight for Khan. Where can he go if he gets beat? If he doesn't beat Kotelnik. He should retire, and try acting like he wants to do anyway. He's got enough money to last him his life time.

I think Kotelnik will surprise everyone and knock Khan out within the first 3 rounds.

I definitely give Kotelnik a decent chance, but Freddie Roach is a great trainer and I think if Khan can stay on his feet he should carve out a decision over the distance.

Warren knows that even if Khan loses, a massive fight can be made with Ricky Hatton. That's why he's willing to take such a risk, coupled with the fact that Khan has to be on PPV. I think Kotelnik should win this by KO, but I wouldn't rule out Khan winning by decision as he does have great athletic ability and good technique. Well, he should have brilliant technique now after learning from Roach, Moorer and Pacquiao.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:Khan doesnt know how to deal with the fact that Kotelnik is not stopping when he throws his punches that lack power IMO

speed is power, Khan can crack and he is stronger than the boy that initially turned pro.

also...to those that think Kotelnik is going to simply wait til Khan makes a mistake then pummel him...didn't he take like, 11 or 12 rounds to pummel Gavin Rees??

Gut instinct says Khan will do it; whilst he is chinny, Kotelnik is no Prescott and has shown in the past that he is very defensively minded against good fighters. I fancy it'll be controversial (maybe a la Limond?) but that the Brit will do it in the end.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:Khan doesnt know how to deal with the fact that Kotelnik is not stopping when he throws his punches that lack power IMO

speed is power, Khan can crack and he is stronger than the boy that initially turned pro.

also...to those that think Kotelnik is going to simply wait til Khan makes a mistake then pummel him...didn't he take like, 11 or 12 rounds to pummel Gavin Rees??

Gavin Rees is a hell of a lot tougher than Khan. While limited, he has an unquestionable fighter's heart and he was shipping a lot of punishment. It won't need nearly as much for Kotelnik to send Khan into orbit, and I would even argue that Khan will be easier to hit than Rees. Rees was bobbing and weaving and being pesky. Khan just leaves his chin in the air and his reaction speed, defence reflexes and lateral movement are really sub-par. Getting on his bike and keeping his hands up are only going to get him so far in this one.

Kotelnik is a tough fighter to beat - his only two losses were very close, controversial decisions. He's not getting stopped by Khan, and he is going to land, repeatedly, so where does that leave Amir?

Good article here about Khan's preparation for Kotelink and how he's coming along.

http://m a x b o xing.com /Gabriel/Montoya060509.asp

You could definitely see the improvements against Barrera and hopefully he'll be even better this time. Is anyone else more optimistic about his future, even with his questionable chin?

I certainly am, because he always had unbelievable talent and now the technical aspects of his game will improve with Roach. The extra few pounds might even help him to hold a shot better. I think he's more talented than all the Olympians from the last games, it's just comes down to how his chin holds up when he gets cracked.

Double post.

ArtOfWar wrote:Good article here about Khan's preparation for Kotelink and how he's coming along.

http://m a x b o xing.com /Gabriel/Montoya060509.asp

You could definitely see the improvements against Barrera and hopefully he'll be even better this time. Is anyone else more optimistic about his future, even with his questionable chin?

I certainly am, because he always had unbelievable talent and now the technical aspects of his game will improve with Roach. The extra few pounds might even help him to hold a shot better. I think he's more talented than all the Olympians from the last games, it's just comes down to how his chin holds up when he gets cracked.

I totally agree that Khan is more talented than our recent olympians, I have not been Khans biggest fan but he has the tools that the other dont, its just his chin that might let him doen. Thats the exciting part for me though, will he? wont he?

Quixall wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.

On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.

And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?

good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.

Riddock, after reading these posts, i have to admit i was wrong in asserting that speed = power. Having thought about about it, i agree with your post above, in that it's a very complicated science, as to how a fighter delivers power, because all fighters are different. My point about Khan was that he will stop a lot of his oppopents because of the hand speed and as you said in a previous reply, it's the punch that they don't see, which knocks them out or the sheer volume of unanswered punches, causes the referee to intervene and stop the fight, as was the case with the Michael Gomez fight. I have never boxed or trained and am an enthusiastic boxing fan, but i'm still learning about the sport and it's through these debates that i learn more. Did you watch the Kevein Kelley video ? What did you think ?

good discussion anyway

already agreed with you on the ones they don't see. IMO mate, the punchers who combine power with speed in the Tyson/pacquiao mould are few and far between, and are almost all absolutely elite fighters (you can also say Terry Norris, great example of the same and many others)

Its going to go like Paul Williams vs Winky Wright - Khan will keep it on the outside and bombard Koletnik with fast flurries
to win a wide UD.

Koletnik won't KO Khan Blown up super featherweight Gavin Rees went into the 12th round with Koletnik whilst marching into
his fists! Khan may be chinny - but Koletnik is not the man to take advantage.

jtourettes wrote:Not 100% sure but I'm leaning towards a Kotelnik KO 8/9 rd barring a suspect stoppage in Khan's favour. Not really seen enough of Khan with Roach to accurately judge how much he's improved but Khan's punch power is over-rated and that chin is always going to be his undoing.

Welcome mate! About time too!

Maidana, a full grown 140 lber had 25-0 with 24 KOs and he couldn't hurt Kotelnik. I don't any reasons why Khan would do better.
On the other hand, Limmond has floored and hurt Khan so I don't see any reasons why Kotelnik wouldn't.