BoxRec

whicker wrote:

Fatsam wrote: hurt by barrera and gomez, i have to go with a Kotelnik KO.

When did Barrera hurt him?

Gomez put Khan down, but would you say that he really hurt him during that fight?

I don't think Barrera hurt Khan, but he made Khan wary of the shots coming back.

Gomez definitely hurt Khan, most specifically I'm thinking of a body shot when Khan was on the ropes. Khan said in the interview afterwards that he was hurt. You could see him wince when it landed.

lurkyshaka wrote:

Hagler2002 wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
Truly astounding how so many folk can be so completely off the mark. Khan will p*ss this.

2 words

Breidis Prescott

The rangy, aggressive Columbian puncher who fights nothing at all like Andreas Kotelnik you mean?

No I mean Khan been a red hot favourite and getting stiffed with his already suspect chin.

Hagler2002 wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:

Hagler2002 wrote:
2 words

Breidis Prescott

The rangy, aggressive Columbian puncher who fights nothing at all like Andreas Kotelnik you mean?

No I mean Khan been a red hot favourite and getting stiffed with his already suspect chin.

Khan isn't really a red hot favourite here in boxing terms....he's available at 4/9 and at that price he's well worth putting triple figures on imo.

I'd never put substancial cash on Khan against any opponent proven to carry any kind of real power. But Kotelnik does not carry that kind of clout. He's not going to be chinning Khan with a single shot, and he's not going to get chance to land the multiple punches he'd need too, to stand any real chance of TKO/KO'ing Khan.....And Kotelnik tidy boxer though he is, isn't going to be outboxing Khan anytime soon.

Khan getting steadied or even perhaps flash floored along the way wouldn't be a major shock given his chin, but by and large he has the speed, movement and talent to simply outbox and outspeed Kotelnik all night long.

As much as people seem to hate Khan and even and of course acknowledging his poor punch resistance....i don't see how Kotelnik is the man to expose the flaws in Khan's game. Styles make fights and Kotelnik's style and strengths don't offer much danger to Khan.

Khan will win this fight in a breeze, Kotelnik is solid but unspectacular and will find himself outboxed and chasing shadows, as i'm counting the cash i'll be gifted from the bookies

Is the draw tempting anyone? With the "technical draw" rule in place, presumably that is classed as a draw too. At about 33-1 its perhaps an interesting one- Khan picks up an early cut, fight waved off as technical draw...

lurkyshaka wrote:
Khan isn't really a red hot favourite here in boxing terms....he's available at 4/9 and at that price he's well worth putting triple figures on imo.

I'd never put substancial cash on Khan against any opponent proven to carry any kind of real power. But Kotelnik does not carry that kind of clout. He's not going to be chinning Khan with a single shot, and he's not going to get chance to land the multiple punches he'd need too, to stand any real chance of TKO/KO'ing Khan.....And Kotelnik tidy boxer though he is, isn't going to be outboxing Khan anytime soon.

Khan getting steadied or even perhaps flash floored along the way wouldn't be a major shock given his chin, but by and large he has the speed, movement and talent to simply outbox and outspeed Kotelnik all night long.

As much as people seem to hate Khan and even and of course acknowledging his poor punch resistance....i don't see how Kotelnik is the man to expose the flaws in Khan's game. Styles make fights and Kotelnik's style and strengths don't offer much danger to Khan.

Khan will win this fight in a breeze, Kotelnik is solid but unspectacular and will find himself outboxed and chasing shadows, as i'm counting the cash i'll be gifted from the bookies

Willie Limond dropped Khan will one shot and nearly stopped him. When Khan rose, Limond was all over him, trying to finish the job, and Khan was staggering, surviving. To his credit, Khan did survive, but if Limond had landed another one clean shot while trying to finish Khan it would have been all over.

How does this equate to Kotelnik, a guy several levels above Limond plus a weight division to boot, 'not having the clout' to stop Khan???

Just interested.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
Khan isn't really a red hot favourite here in boxing terms....he's available at 4/9 and at that price he's well worth putting triple figures on imo.

I'd never put substancial cash on Khan against any opponent proven to carry any kind of real power. But Kotelnik does not carry that kind of clout. He's not going to be chinning Khan with a single shot, and he's not going to get chance to land the multiple punches he'd need too, to stand any real chance of TKO/KO'ing Khan.....And Kotelnik tidy boxer though he is, isn't going to be outboxing Khan anytime soon.

Khan getting steadied or even perhaps flash floored along the way wouldn't be a major shock given his chin, but by and large he has the speed, movement and talent to simply outbox and outspeed Kotelnik all night long.

As much as people seem to hate Khan and even and of course acknowledging his poor punch resistance....i don't see how Kotelnik is the man to expose the flaws in Khan's game. Styles make fights and Kotelnik's style and strengths don't offer much danger to Khan.

Khan will win this fight in a breeze, Kotelnik is solid but unspectacular and will find himself outboxed and chasing shadows, as i'm counting the cash i'll be gifted from the bookies

Willie Limond dropped Khan will one shot and nearly stopped him. When Khan rose, Limond was all over him, trying to finish the job, and Khan was staggering, surviving. To his credit, Khan did survive, but if Limond had landed another one clean shot while trying to finish Khan it would have been all over.

How does this equate to Kotelnik, a guy several levels above Limond plus a weight division to boot, 'not having the clout' to stop Khan???

Just interested.

I think that he thinks Limmond hits harder than Kotelnik.

whicker wrote:

Fatsam wrote: hurt by barrera and gomez, i have to go with a Kotelnik KO.

When did Barrera hurt him?

barrera did wobble him i seem to remember.

only brief trembles both times.

lurkyshaka wrote:
Khan isn't really a red hot favourite here in boxing terms....he's available at 4/9

4/9 is plenty short enough in my book to say he is a red hot favourite.

Im very surprised the poll sees Khan as the faviorite as Kotelnik is a proven world class competer whereas Khan isnt but i think Roach will have a plan to beat Kotelnik so if Khan does what Freddie tells him then I see Khan winning but also I think Kotelniks expiernece may pay dividense and he will be able to deal with Khans speed and win on points. Its a really tough 1 to call as there is so many diffrent outcomes

alexpaterson wrote:Im very surprised the poll sees Khan as the faviorite

Remember we're on a UK Boxing forum, so the voters may not be impartial. The poll I posted on the current scene wasn't in Khans favour

Chambers2 wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:Im very surprised the poll sees Khan as the faviorite

Remember we're on a UK Boxing forum, so the voters may not be impartial. The poll I posted on the current scene wasn't in Khans favour

I suppose
I voted for Kotelnik points on both but as the fight gets closer I fell Roach will have a plan and it will work

whicker wrote:

Fatsam wrote: hurt by barrera and gomez, i have to go with a Kotelnik KO.

When did Barrera hurt him?

Gomez put Khan down, but would you say that he really hurt him during that fight?

I think khan got a little stunned a few times in the fight with barrera, nothing too bad, and he was definitly hurt against gomez when he got blasted to the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qBRAmjDXWU This video allways makes me think a bet on khan to get KO'd is never a bad one.

Hope he does well this weekend though.

alexpaterson wrote:Im very surprised the poll sees Khan as the faviorite

Khan is, without question, the "official" favourite. Fan opinion will differ, of course!

Have you seen the advert for this fight it doesnt even mention Kell Brook, Enzo Mac, Kevin Mitchell it only mentions Khan and the Olympians and the Small vs Hall fight they could've sold this fight a lot better imo by mentioning a bright prospect in Brook a former world champ in Enzo and a soon to be contender in a world title fight if things go well but instead mention the Olympians who will probably all win by KO early

lirva wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
Khan isn't really a red hot favourite here in boxing terms....he's available at 4/9 and at that price he's well worth putting triple figures on imo.

I'd never put substancial cash on Khan against any opponent proven to carry any kind of real power. But Kotelnik does not carry that kind of clout. He's not going to be chinning Khan with a single shot, and he's not going to get chance to land the multiple punches he'd need too, to stand any real chance of TKO/KO'ing Khan.....And Kotelnik tidy boxer though he is, isn't going to be outboxing Khan anytime soon.

Khan getting steadied or even perhaps flash floored along the way wouldn't be a major shock given his chin, but by and large he has the speed, movement and talent to simply outbox and outspeed Kotelnik all night long.

As much as people seem to hate Khan and even and of course acknowledging his poor punch resistance....i don't see how Kotelnik is the man to expose the flaws in Khan's game. Styles make fights and Kotelnik's style and strengths don't offer much danger to Khan.

Khan will win this fight in a breeze, Kotelnik is solid but unspectacular and will find himself outboxed and chasing shadows, as i'm counting the cash i'll be gifted from the bookies

Willie Limond dropped Khan will one shot and nearly stopped him. When Khan rose, Limond was all over him, trying to finish the job, and Khan was staggering, surviving. To his credit, Khan did survive, but if Limond had landed another one clean shot while trying to finish Khan it would have been all over.

How does this equate to Kotelnik, a guy several levels above Limond plus a weight division to boot, 'not having the clout' to stop Khan???

Just interested.

I think that he thinks Limmond hits harder than Kotelnik.

No...but the Khan who fought Limond was recklessly aggressive and of course nearly came a cropper. And indeed f he went steaming into Kotelnik in the same reckless manner he used against Limond, then Kotelnik's chances are raised significantly.

But lessons have been learnt under the guidance of Roach and Khan simply won't fight Kotelnik in such reckless fashion. He will be using fast hands, movement, and keeping Kotelnik's connects to a minimum. The Khan of today is a far smarter and more cagey fighter than the relative novice who paid the price for earlier career errors.

For that reason, we'll see him using his ability, speed and hugely improved defense, to make this upcoming fight against a decent beltholder appear routine.

Hagler2002 wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
Khan isn't really a red hot favourite here in boxing terms....he's available at 4/9

4/9 is plenty short enough in my book to say he is a red hot favourite.

Well i like those odds...course 5/6 or evens would be better, but 4/9 stil leaves me with scope to make a decent chunk of change.

lurkyshaka wrote:
No...but the Khan who fought Limond was recklessly aggressive and of course nearly came a cropper. And indeed f he went steaming into Kotelnik in the same reckless manner he used against Limond, then Kotelnik's chances are raised significantly.

But lessons have been learnt under the guidance of Roach and Khan simply won't fight Kotelnik in such reckless fashion. He will be using fast hands, movement, and keeping Kotelnik's connects to a minimum. The Khan of today is a far smarter and more cagey fighter than the relative novice who paid the price for earlier career errors.

For that reason, we'll see him using his ability, speed and hugely improved defense, to make this upcoming fight against a decent beltholder appear routine.

That's fair enough but you said that Kotelnik "doesn't have the clout" to stop Khan. Now you are talking about Khan's style during the fight rather than the topic of punch resistance.

lurkyshaka wrote: No...but the Khan who fought Limond was recklessly aggressive and of course nearly came a cropper. And indeed f he went steaming into Kotelnik in the same reckless manner he used against Limond, then Kotelnik's chances are raised significantly.

But lessons have been learnt under the guidance of Roach and Khan simply won't fight Kotelnik in such reckless fashion. He will be using fast hands, movement, and keeping Kotelnik's connects to a minimum. The Khan of today is a far smarter and more cagey fighter than the relative novice who paid the price for earlier career errors.

For that reason, we'll see him using his ability, speed and hugely improved defense, to make this upcoming fight against a decent beltholder appear routine.

Do you know something we don't? Are you part of Khans training camp or something? How exactly do you know for sure how much Khan has learned under Roach? I'm not having a dig I'm just genuinely interested in your extreme confidence in Khan's new found ability if you're basing it on the Fagan and Barrera fights.
The Barrera debate has been done to death but all we learned from that fight is Khan has excellent hand speed and is a very good attacking fighter. Particularly when there is little or nothing coming in return. But we already knew that didn't we?
For me, Khan has always looked devastating until someone ruffles his feathers. If he can offload with his fast combinations all night then it's all good but as soon as someone alters the script, Khan has always seemed to panic. Since the Prescott fiasco, Khan has not been in a fighting situation where his gameplan has been tested. Not one tiny amount. He's boxed 6 full rounds and 2 half rounds against (slightly) moving targets.
Now don't get me wrong, if you're right in what you say then fine, I'm just interested in what you base it on. Freddie Roach is an excellent trainer but once the bell goes, Khan has to put those lessons into effect.
Whatever your opinions on Kotelnik, he's a class and weight above anything Khan has previously faced(Barrera 09 included). Styles do make fights but by that token Witter should have breezed past Kotelnik, Maidana should have chinned him in 2 rounds and Rees should have had him chasing shadows. Boxing is not always so black and white.
I think Khan will dominate the first half of the fight but Kotelnik will patiently plug away, slowly figuring Khan out and starting to apply more pressure as the fight goes on, taking Khan out of his rhythm and beginning to get through.
What happens next all depends on just how well Khan has developed under Roach. The true test, not the farcical Barrera circus or the tough but very limited Fagan.
If he can keep his cool, remain composed and continue to outbox Kotelnik under pressure, then good stuff. If he does the rabbit in the headlights act and panics, then I'm sure Kotelnik has the tools to wrap up the job. Whether that be landing enough to force the ref to stop it or getting enough points in the second half via a knockdown or two to get the decision.

lirva wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
No...but the Khan who fought Limond was recklessly aggressive and of course nearly came a cropper. And indeed f he went steaming into Kotelnik in the same reckless manner he used against Limond, then Kotelnik's chances are raised significantly.

But lessons have been learnt under the guidance of Roach and Khan simply won't fight Kotelnik in such reckless fashion. He will be using fast hands, movement, and keeping Kotelnik's connects to a minimum. The Khan of today is a far smarter and more cagey fighter than the relative novice who paid the price for earlier career errors.

For that reason, we'll see him using his ability, speed and hugely improved defense, to make this upcoming fight against a decent beltholder appear routine.

That's fair enough but you said that Kotelnik "doesn't have the clout" to stop Khan. Now you are talking about Khan's style during the fight rather than the topic of punch resistance.

I don't think Kotelnik has the clout to do Khan in with one shot. Even if he wobbles Khan at some point, i think Khan will be able to see out any danger. Thats what i mean, Kotelnik doesn't have an immediate fight ending 'clout' and imo he just won't get opportunity to land enough shots to have an accummulative affect on Khan.

DaveyH wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote: No...but the Khan who fought Limond was recklessly aggressive and of course nearly came a cropper. And indeed f he went steaming into Kotelnik in the same reckless manner he used against Limond, then Kotelnik's chances are raised significantly.

But lessons have been learnt under the guidance of Roach and Khan simply won't fight Kotelnik in such reckless fashion. He will be using fast hands, movement, and keeping Kotelnik's connects to a minimum. The Khan of today is a far smarter and more cagey fighter than the relative novice who paid the price for earlier career errors.

For that reason, we'll see him using his ability, speed and hugely improved defense, to make this upcoming fight against a decent beltholder appear routine.

Do you know something we don't?

Apparently i do mate. I think this one is a crystal clear. Call it a hunch, but i see this fight as straightforward and easy to read. Some fights are genuinely difficult to pick a winner, this one not so much imo.

Are you part of Khans training camp or something? How exactly do you know for sure how much Khan has learned under Roach? I'm not having a dig I'm just genuinely interested in your extreme confidence in Khan's new found ability if you're basing it on the Fagan and Barrera fights.
The Barrera debate has been done to death but all we learned from that fight is Khan has excellent hand speed and is a very good attacking fighter. Particularly when there is little or nothing coming in return. But we already knew that didn't we?
For me, Khan has always looked devastating until someone ruffles his feathers. If he can offload with his fast combinations all night then it's all good but as soon as someone alters the script, Khan has always seemed to panic. Since the Prescott fiasco, Khan has not been in a fighting situation where his gameplan has been tested. Not one tiny amount. He's boxed 6 full rounds and 2 half rounds against (slightly) moving targets.
Now don't get me wrong, if you're right in what you say then fine, I'm just interested in what you base it on. Freddie Roach is an excellent trainer but once the bell goes, Khan has to put those lessons into effect.
Whatever your opinions on Kotelnik, he's a class and weight above anything Khan has previously faced(Barrera 09 included). Styles do make fights but by that token Witter should have breezed past Kotelnik, Maidana should have chinned him in 2 rounds and Rees should have had him chasing shadows. Boxing is not always so black and white.
I think Khan will dominate the first half of the fight but Kotelnik will patiently plug away, slowly figuring Khan out and starting to apply more pressure as the fight goes on, taking Khan out of his rhythm and beginning to get through.
What happens next all depends on just how well Khan has developed under Roach. The true test, not the farcical Barrera circus or the tough but very limited Fagan.
If he can keep his cool, remain composed and continue to outbox Kotelnik under pressure, then good stuff. If he does the rabbit in the headlights act and panics, then I'm sure Kotelnik has the tools to wrap up the job. Whether that be landing enough to force the ref to stop it or getting enough points in the second half via a knockdown or two to get the decision.

Think my confidence comes from my basic belief Kotelnik doesn't have the style to get at Khan and ruffle his feathers to any great degree. This isn't about a lack of respect or underdstanding of what Kotelnik brings to offer. In recent days have rewatched his fights with Maidana, Witter, Rees and M'baye. I see his strengths, but i also see his weaknesses. And for me a patient, technically sound but unexceptional beltholder like Andreas will always be struggling against a quicksilver fighter like Khan, who i believe will be employing a load of movement and fighting smart. If Khan fights like a fool he of course could give Kotelnik a chance, but i don't expect that. I expect he'll win easy and my confidence now will be fully justified.

all things being fair kotelnik wins on points though i think if he gets in any minor trouble what soever it will get stopped a'la calzaghe-manfredo

Kotelnik applies solid pressure and is a cool customer. He beat a hard nut in his last title defence, in an outstanding action fight. He will not get ruffled by Khan's fast hands. He will tuck up, steadily (hopefully not TOO steadily) cut the ring down and work Khan over with body shots. Due to body shots, nervous tension, and his own frenetic energy sapping style, Khan will gas in the middle rounds and Kotelnik will eventually stop him. Khan will probably pick up rounds just from shots landed on the champion's gloves. Kotelnik may be behind on points, but I see him stopping Khan. And no, that doesn't make me racist.

id say m'baye is the closest person ive seen kotelnik fight style wise and the 1st was close and teh 2nd was an easy kotelnik win not a draw

Asterix wrote:

whicker wrote:

Fatsam wrote: hurt by barrera and gomez, i have to go with a Kotelnik KO.

When did Barrera hurt him?

Gomez put Khan down, but would you say that he really hurt him during that fight?

I don't think Barrera hurt Khan, but he made Khan wary of the shots coming back.

Gomez definitely hurt Khan, most specifically I'm thinking of a body shot when Khan was on the ropes. Khan said in the interview afterwards that he was hurt. You could see him wince when it landed.

Yeah, that's right. Khan was hurt big by a body-shot. But I can't recall him being hurt by Barrera.

Rob Magic wrote:Khan wins through an absurd ref stoppage. We all know how these things work nowadays.

If this happens again...........................

ala Joe Calzaghe stopping Peter Manfredo

and Khan gets gifted the title on a silly stoppage

then foreign fighters will be reluctant to come and defend their belts in Britain as we would have a repuation of our boxing officials being a corrupt joke

it could be for the long term damage of British Boxing..............