BoxRec

It's a valid point and for me it comes down to knowing and listening to your boxer.

The point you make also indicates one of the potential downsides to personal experience - with some individuals it can lead to the coach judging all boxers by their own standards and experiences rather than dealing with them as individuals with their own temperament, strengths, weaknesses etc. This is a big reason why some good boxers make poor coaches.

For me one part of the intrigue of coaching is that there isn't a one size fits all - there are so many variables related to the boxer's strengths / weaknesses / experiences / personality; likewise the coach's, and the environment in which they work.

Ex Boxers make the best coaches.... but some exceptional people have the ability to coach without been a participant... Most of you non boxers know the difference between a decent boxer and a shitty one, right? If someone has got the ability to understand exactly what makes a good fighter then surely he can mould a fighter into one.

Non boxer trainers are in the minority but there are some very good ones out there and Deans ones of them. He's been involved in the sport for some 20 years - surely he's going to pick up something?

With reference from the normal boxers to the outside coaches, England has a set up, international matches the england coach takes over, assisted by the england number 2, the boxers club coach rarely works the corner!! unless its a friendly international match,
how would a pro feel if this happened to them,

Yeah odd set up that, someone has been with their coach all that time, and on their biggest night, he's not the one directing them.

ERIC GUY wrote:With reference from the normal boxers to the outside coaches, England has a set up, international matches the england coach takes over, assisted by the england number 2, the boxers club coach rarely works the corner!! unless its a friendly international match,
how would a pro feel if this happened to them,

why do they do that?????
why cant the boxers coach help out in the corner on international duties

contact the ABAE in Sheffield and ask,

Quite often jobs for the boys

With lottery funding the ABAE is a real gravy train these days

I ain't read the whole sections here BUT will say this much, I've been to a lot of countries and trained under an awful lot of coaches and I'll say this!! Dean Powel knows his stuff and is very knowledgable on the game, Ok his dress sense goes a bit mad sometimes BUT the guy knows boxing and I feel lucky personally to have him in my corner!!

I've worked 100's of corners and I've met many ex-boxers who are trainers who aren't a patch on Dean Powell. For anyone who hasn't boxed competitively to work as a trainer they have to go the extra mile, be that bit better because they're always going to be playing catch up. For some reason a lot of people think that because somebody's boxed this makes them a better trainer. Sadly this isn't always true.

Spot on, the best football managers are more often average players when they played.

Its one of those shitty myths that to be able to coach a sport you have to have played it at the highest level.

No substitute for hard work and fair play to Dean Powell I say!

PS. He would not be getting any stick if he worked for Hayemaker or Hennessy.

Curse of the FW worker again on here I see boys

I don't think it really makes a difference.... Freddy Roach was an okay boxer, but give me Freddie any day to great fighters like Roger Mayweather and Buddy McKirt.

Infact, great fighters might not be able to communicate their own experiences in a way they would like and this could lead to great frustration. Its often these instinctive things that made them great in the first place. I remember Tony Cottee after his brief stint in Football management said that he really struggled with communicating with Strikers - because he would just "do it" when he was playing.

[quote="twenty six"]Mickey,
Are you a fan, for instance, of Darren Sutherland ?
He left home in Ireland as a raw teenager and turned up on the doorstep of ?
The Ingles.
I think it's safe to say he benefitted.
Sheffield is smalller than Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham.
Trust me, talent does not get overlooked regardless of style.
Name me another UK gym that has produced more British, Commonwealth, European, and World Champions in the last 20 years.
Off the top of my head, at British level.
Brian Anderson.
Herol Graham.
Chris Saunders (Warren promoted)
John Keaton. (Warren promoted)
Ryan Rhodes. (Warren Promoted)
Johnny Nelson.(Warren Promoted)
Junior Witter (Warren promoted)
Esham Pickering.(Warren Promoted)
John Thaxton. (Warren Promoted)
Naseem Hamed.(Warren Promoted)
Kel Brook. (Warren Promoted)

See any pattern Twenty-Six? The guy you continually slag off had a major part in all their careers and Ernie Fossey made most of Herol's early fights too.

stujones wrote:I don't think it really makes a difference.... Freddy Roach was an okay boxer, but give me Freddie any day to great fighters like Roger Mayweather and Buddy McKirt.

Infact, great fighters might not be able to communicate their own experiences in a way they would like and this could lead to great frustration. Its often these instinctive things that made them great in the first place. I remember Tony Cottee after his brief stint in Football management said that he really struggled with communicating with Strikers - because he would just "do it" when he was playing.

I think one of the problems with people who have competed and succeeded at the highest level is that because they did it their way, they want everyone else to do it their way as well.

However, not everyone can punch like George Foreman, or drop a ball onto someone's head from 25 yards like Hoddle.

Part of being a good coach is recognising your charge's strengths and weaknesses, and working with them, and I think this is easier for those who weren't born with natural talent, but got to a reasonable level through hard graft, application, and marshalling their best assets.

Yes James, this is the category where Roach and people like Kevin Rooney would fit into (grafters over natural talent). Versitility is a key thing to a good boxing coach.... I was very interested to see Gavin sign with Farnell, its going to be a huge test of his coaching potential - Gavin's going to have to fight alot different to how Anthony fought as they have so much different attributes. It could work a treat.

Personality is another key thing, sometimes personality clashes will be the biggest factor for an unsuccessful coach/fighter... success with one fighter, doesn't mean he'll be successful with another. For me, judging by comments mades and subsequent performances, Roach and Hopkins didn't "gel" - yet nobody can dispute Roach's coaching ability.

Personally I would like to see my son be trained by someone whose stepped into the ring... even if he was a journeyman, or maybe only an amateur - just for the "respect" thing.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stujones wrote:I don't think it really makes a difference.... Freddy Roach was an okay boxer, but give me Freddie any day to great fighters like Roger Mayweather and Buddy McKirt.

Infact, great fighters might not be able to communicate their own experiences in a way they would like and this could lead to great frustration. Its often these instinctive things that made them great in the first place. I remember Tony Cottee after his brief stint in Football management said that he really struggled with communicating with Strikers - because he would just "do it" when he was playing.

I think one of the problems with people who have competed and succeeded at the highest level is that because they did it their way, they want everyone else to do it their way as well.

However, not everyone can punch like George Foreman, or drop a ball onto someone's head from 25 yards like Hoddle.

Part of being a good coach is recognising your charge's strengths and weaknesses, and working with them, and I think this is easier for those who weren't born with natural talent, but got to a reasonable level through hard graft, application, and marshalling their best assets.[/quote

freddie king at the matchroom had 2 other trainers there so if he didnt suit the fighter there was always a choice of trainers it worked well for them

T

stujones wrote:Yes James, this is the category where Roach and people like Kevin Rooney would fit into (grafters over natural talent). Versitility is a key thing to a good boxing coach.... I was very interested to see Gavin sign with Farnell, its going to be a huge test of his coaching potential - Gavin's going to have to fight alot different to how Anthony fought as they have so much different attributes. It could work a treat.

Personality is another key thing, sometimes personality clashes will be the biggest factor for an unsuccessful coach/fighter... success with one fighter, doesn't mean he'll be successful with another. For me, judging by comments mades and subsequent performances, Roach and Hopkins didn't "gel" - yet nobody can dispute Roach's coaching ability.

Personally I would like to see my son be trained by someone whose stepped into the ring... even if he was a journeyman, or maybe only an amateur - just for the "respect" thing.

there's a great quote in Teddy Atlas' book talking about when Roach took over with Moorer, after Atlas had had enough of Moorers mood swings, drinking and general impossibility.

Roach said "I don't try and make Michael be someone else, I just let Mike be Mike."

Teddy was asked what he thought about that and he replied "I always knew it was my job to do just the opposite, stop Mike being Mike."

I did the house corner for Martin Rogan vs skelton and t was interesting to see Eammon Magee and John Breen swap places when rogie needed diffrent things ,it worked well as the result showed.Some times a guy needs sense and tactics other times he needs boosting up and some times he needs calming down.Diffrent cornermen offer diffrent things

boxingchat wrote:

twenty six wrote:Mickey,
Are you a fan, for instance, of Darren Sutherland ?
He left home in Ireland as a raw teenager and turned up on the doorstep of ?
The Ingles.
I think it's safe to say he benefitted.
Sheffield is smalller than Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham.
Trust me, talent does not get overlooked regardless of style.
Name me another UK gym that has produced more British, Commonwealth, European, and World Champions in the last 20 years.
Off the top of my head, at British level.
Brian Anderson.
Herol Graham.
Chris Saunders (Warren promoted)
John Keaton. (Warren promoted)
Ryan Rhodes. (Warren Promoted)
Johnny Nelson.(Warren Promoted)
Junior Witter (Warren promoted)
Esham Pickering.(Warren Promoted)
John Thaxton. (Warren Promoted)
Naseem Hamed.(Warren Promoted)
Kel Brook. (Warren Promoted)

See any pattern Twenty-Six? The guy you continually slag off had a major part in all their careers and Ernie Fossey made most of Herol's early fights too.

i hope you wasnt including me in 26's rant.i know,and have bought tickets too,loads of fw shows.lots of my friends have signed with fwank

Bomber 1 wrote:I ain't read the whole sections here BUT will say this much, I've been to a lot of countries and trained under an awful lot of coaches and I'll say this!! Dean Powel knows his stuff and is very knowledgable on the game, Ok his dress sense goes a bit mad sometimes BUT the guy knows boxing and I feel lucky personally to have him in my corner!!

I totally agree... (with the dress sense haha) Joke, a daper dan !

Was it Dennie Mancini, after Benn had been hammered by McClellan and narrowly survived the first round "Brilliant! You've got him now Nige.."
Just what he needed, and came out to turn the fight around in the 2nd.

Terry D wrote:tactical adjustments that have not been worked on in the gym prior to the fight can't just be lumped in during a tough fight, it doesn't work like that.

I agree entirely with that. A number of coaches will say if they have to shout instructions during a competition because their team / athlete doesn't know what to do then they have failed in their preparation.

Not necessary, boxers can choke under pressure as much as any other athlete. Especially if the pre fight tactic/s are TAUGHT and not part of the fighters instinct.

Now, this is going to sound bizarre, but it does happen in real life also - but Rocky Balboa's rematch with Clubber Laing actually does happen - sometimes a tactic can be thrown out of the window - usually when a fighter is hurt or if the occasion gets to him.

Kevin Kelley claimed he didn't fight to instructions for the first 3 rounds vs Hamed.... then in the 4th corner gave him a bollocking and told him to go to instructions... he gets KO'd! His prefight plan was to pressure Hamed with fast punches, not counter punch.

boxingchat wrote:

twenty six wrote:Mickey,
Are you a fan, for instance, of Darren Sutherland ?
He left home in Ireland as a raw teenager and turned up on the doorstep of ?
The Ingles.
I think it's safe to say he benefitted.
Sheffield is smalller than Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham.
Trust me, talent does not get overlooked regardless of style.
Name me another UK gym that has produced more British, Commonwealth, European, and World Champions in the last 20 years.
Off the top of my head, at British level.
Brian Anderson.
Herol Graham.
Chris Saunders (Warren promoted)
John Keaton. (Warren promoted)
Ryan Rhodes. (Warren Promoted)
Johnny Nelson.(Warren Promoted)
Junior Witter (Warren promoted)
Esham Pickering.(Warren Promoted)
John Thaxton. (Warren Promoted)
Naseem Hamed.(Warren Promoted)
Kel Brook. (Warren Promoted)

See any pattern Twenty-Six? The guy you continually slag off had a major part in all their careers and Ernie Fossey made most of Herol's early fights too.

When Rhodes was with Warren, he was defending Warren with almost religous-fervour.

The fact is Dean has worked in the game for a long long time, and if he was not any good at what he does, he would not have forged out a career in boxing.

He is obviously very good at what he does.......just look at some of the CURRENT fighters he works with, let alone the ones he has worked with over the years.

He is a true pro, and I just want to reiterate the point that if fighters/trainers didn't want him in hte corner, then they would jnot consistently pay him to be there. They make the choice to employ him, and if he is voacl in between rounds, then it obviously suits whoever is paying him.