BoxRec

Wales wrote:

DG. wrote:
Pacman is not the greatest or one of them, imo.

RJJ
PBF
Evander
Lennox

In the last 15 years are the standouts.

Pac is the 'exception' to the Roach camp. I hope that Macklin does well but time will tell.


Cotto - DLH and Barrera were past their best - especially DLH and MAB.

JMM was not and look what happened.

DG. wrote:Cotto wins by ko!

I got that pick wrong - still thougt a 'past his best - after the Margorito beating - would still beat Pac.

Maybe at 147 he would have - we will NEVER know now that COTTO will be at 154 next!

DG. wrote: RJJ
PBF
Evander
Lennox

In the last 15 years are the standouts.

DG, you make some good points on occasion but always let yourself down with bias. I expect non-hardcore fans to gravitate towards the heavyweights, but not someone on this forum.
The idea that Evander and Lennox somehow make the cut but the likes of Pacman and De La Hoya don't is ridiculous. If Pac had been sparked twice in his career prime by non-entities we'd never hear the end of it from you, but it's clearly a different criteria for Lennox.
As for Evander, Bowe had his number far more than Marquez ever had Pacman's.
I could pick further holes in your claim but really the key point is that you've got to sort out your double standards to be credible.

Deserter wrote:

DG. wrote: RJJ
PBF
Evander
Lennox

In the last 15 years are the standouts.

DG, you make some good points on occasion but always let yourself down with bias. I expect non-hardcore fans to gravitate towards the heavyweights, but not someone on this forum.
The idea that Evander and Lennox somehow make the cut but the likes of Pacman and De La Hoya don't is ridiculous. If Pac had been sparked twice in his career prime by non-entities we'd never hear the end of it from you, but it's clearly a different criteria for Lennox.
As for Evander, Bowe had his number far more than Marquez ever had Pacman's.
I could pick further holes in your claim but really the key point is that you've got to sort out your double standards to be credible.

Evander 'Undisputed Cruiser and Heavyweight' Champ - still capable of beating some of the top guys now.
Lennox -beat every man he ever faced and never ducked a soul.
RJJ - AMAZING at his best.
PBF World Champion last decade or so.

Pac was sparked twice by guys whoise names I never knew then let alone now.



Pacman wins over
Diaz
Loss to Morales and 2 wins
JMM?
Cotto? at 145
DLH at 147

The names mentioned top PAC, imo.

DG. wrote: Evander 'Undisputed Cruiser and Heavyweight' Champ - still capable of beating some of the top guys now.
Lennox -beat every man he ever faced and never ducked a soul.
RJJ - AMAZING at his best.
PBF World Champion last decade or so.

Pac was sparked twice by guys whoise names I never knew then let alone now.



Pacman wins over
Diaz
Loss to Morales and 2 wins
JMM?
Cotto? at 145
DLH at 147

The names mentioned top PAC, imo.

You and I (along with everybody else on this forum!) knows that Pac must have been insanely weight-drained in those early career losses, hence why I specifically referenced career primes.
Again, if you're going to be consistent, why aren't you mentioned Jones Jr getting sparked by the likes of Danny Green? Or Holyfield being beaten by John Ruiz and Michael Moorer?
Double-standards yet again
If Holyfield was a welterweight there's no way you'd hold him in the same regard - Trinidad's got just as good a record, if not better.
The thing with Holyfield, and it's a trap a lot of boxing fans fall into, is that because he's the type of fighter we all love due to his amazing heart and will, and the fact he was a small heavyweight, hence getting the underdog vote, we give him undue credit. He was a brilliant cruiserweight, but bar beating a shot Tyson, what were his career highlights at heavy? In a weak division he still managed to lose plenty of times to the likes of Byrd, Donald and Toney.
The bottom line is that if a fighter in a lighter weight division had a similar record against similar levels of opponents you wouldn't dream of putting him in as one of your best four fighters of the generation.

MachoMan09 wrote:Freddie was brought in to improve Andrei Arlovski's boxing skills prior to his fight with Fedor Emelianenko. That went well. I say 'well'; it went well until Fedor sparked him after three minutes or so.

I doubt very much that part of Roach's plan for that fight was for Arlovski to throw a jumping knee!.

Arlovski had some success followed by a rush of blood to the head which resulted in the high risk attack.

Dont think you can park that one at Roach's door..

Deserter wrote:

DG. wrote: Evander 'Undisputed Cruiser and Heavyweight' Champ - still capable of beating some of the top guys now.
Lennox -beat every man he ever faced and never ducked a soul.
RJJ - AMAZING at his best.
PBF World Champion last decade or so.

Pac was sparked twice by guys whoise names I never knew then let alone now.



Pacman wins over
Diaz
Loss to Morales and 2 wins
JMM?
Cotto? at 145
DLH at 147

The names mentioned top PAC, imo.

You and I (along with everybody else on this forum!) knows that Pac must have been insanely weight-drained in those early career losses, hence why I specifically referenced career primes.
Again, if you're going to be consistent, why aren't you mentioned Jones Jr getting sparked by the likes of Danny Green? Or Holyfield being beaten by John Ruiz and Michael Moorer?
Double-standards yet again
If Holyfield was a welterweight there's no way you'd hold him in the same regard - Trinidad's got just as good a record, if not better.
The thing with Holyfield, and it's a trap a lot of boxing fans fall into, is that because he's the type of fighter we all love due to his amazing heart and will, and the fact he was a small heavyweight, hence getting the underdog vote, we give him undue credit. He was a brilliant cruiserweight, but bar beating a shot Tyson, what were his career highlights at heavy? In a weak division he still managed to lose plenty of times to the likes of Byrd, Donald and Toney.
The bottom line is that if a fighter in a lighter weight division had a similar record against similar levels of opponents you wouldn't dream of putting him in as one of your best four fighters of the generation.

I rate these guys at their best. They are all better than Pac at hs best.
Holyfiled knocked ou by BOWE - FLU.
Moorer - HEART PROBLEM.

I know my boxing and if holyfield were a welterweight he would be amazing.

How many heavyweights can you say would be good at welter?

PRIME RJJ-EH-LL-PBF ARE ALL ABOVE PRIME PACMAN.

Who looks back and remembers Ali Vs Berbick? Holmes? We speak at their best.

AT THEIR BEST THEY ARE ALL BETTEWR THAN PAC.

TRINIDAD? PURLEASEEEEEEE!!! THE BOY HAD LOADED GLOVES AND WAS ONE DIMENSIONAL.



BACK ON THREAD..

JG IS A GOOD TRAINER!

Really enjoyed reading your replies Wales good points and DGs. Ive always wondered about Macklins take on Training, He has had enougth of them. Probably there lies the Problem. Im off the opinion Freddie is taking to much on, with His Health being what it is its Hard work done properly. Sparring will improve no doubt but will Macklin be the user or the used. Time will tell.

Arnie wrote:I dont get fighters sent to me I work my balls off trying to improve them. Im in the gym 24.7!

DD

In keeping with the thread , whom is the better trainer:

Freddie roach, or roger mayweather?

Afterall, they are only as good as their fighter's results.. I personally would feel the best trainer is the one that a particular fighter suits best, from a stylistic and mental point of view.

hurlock wrote:is he alex arthur in disguise :!:

noticed macklin never gave joe any credit in either of his wins exept for the i am etc.being succesfull requires borderline arrogance which i feel macklin surpasses.

....

After the Elcock fight in his interview he said "I've got the best trainer in the world in Joe Gallagher and the best promoter in the world in allegedly" read into this what you will...

http://media.newstalk.ie/podcasts/

Go to the listen back link on the page and scroll down
to "off the ball."

Click on the Tuesday show and then click on part 2 and on 07mins40secs where gerry isenberg talks about him and then on 18mins00secs Freddy starts.

DG. wrote: I know my boxing and if holyfield were a welterweight he would be amazing.
TRINIDAD? PURLEASEEEEEEE!!! THE BOY HAD LOADED GLOVES AND WAS ONE DIMENSIONAL

Trinidad's record at welter (his prime) is far superior to Holyfield's at heavy and he faced a better calibre of opponents.
As for RJJ and PBF, where have I argued otherwise? I'd place both above Pacman.
I just don't think people view Holyfield's career objectively because he's everyone's favourite type of fighter.
On a similar point, Pernell Whittaker is right up there with the best of them (though I assume you didn't list him because he's a different generation), but frequently gets overlooked because his style wasn't to everyone's tastes.

chopsticks wrote:
Now will he get the one on one he needs no.

Will he have his trainer there for his fight.

He'll get the one on one from freddy

Will freddy come here for fights... he did for Khan, and Khan will now be in the US so I guess it wont be a case fo coming here twice??

The_Don1 wrote:

hurlock wrote:is he alex arthur in disguise :!:

noticed macklin never gave joe any credit in either of his wins exept for the i am etc.being succesfull requires borderline arrogance which i feel macklin surpasses.

....

After the Elcock fight in his interview he said "I've got the best trainer in the world in Joe Gallagher and the best promoter in the world in allegedly" read into this what you will...

LOL, he left warren after that fight.

anyway, macklin and gallagher seemed to have been good for each other as they got 2 terrific results, in consecutive fights as well. these were purposeful fights and everything - even choice of opponent - seemed just right. joe hopes that macklin goes on to have big success, just to make things clear.

personally, i don't think having a name yank trainer makes you a world champion. macklin already had been with mcgirt, though roach is better for aggressive fighters. i think hard fights like pirog are the ones that get you ready for the world title fights.

is macklin-pirog still on? will they build on macklin's "irishness" for fights in ireland or in america and move him to a fight with pavlik or a vacant title?