BoxRec

orbtastic wrote:Surprise surprise, K2 brothers force him to take the shitty end of the purse and tie him up in contractual stuff.

Who the hell dictates that he "rematch" his brother?

Jesus wrote:

King Geedorah wrote:The idea that Haye somehow won the Mormeck fight simply by standing up until his opponent lost steam is a compelling one. Not half as compelling as the evidence presented in the fight itself. Haye made good use of the left hook to the body, which can tire the opponent. Sometimes a nice left hook to the body is a better weapon than merely standing there waiting for the other guy to gas, sometimes, not always.

WBO, rubbish, isn't it? How Marco Antonio Barrera got his respect when holding that belt is beyond me. Actually, it isn't -- it was because he is a very good fighter. Enzo, whilst not as good, was respected in the division at that time and many people went for him to win, then promptly said 'I told you so' when he lost.

When I first joined Boxrec I thought that 'revisionism' was the art of preparing for your GCSEs. Blimey, how wrong can one man be.

f*ck the WBO belt! not worth the leather its attached to. hold WBOllocks in the same regards as IBO- b or c level belt.....WBC and WBA belts are the only ones with real history....

MachoMan09 wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:

Deserter wrote: I think history will look on them more kindly.

Their CVs will look very good, agreed, but easily the best opponent on Vitali's CV is Lewis, and he lost that one.

Big names, but very few of them came and gave it 100% against the Klits. Those who did were vastly inferior but at least they were brave. Williams, for example.

Lewis took on all comers at a time when they were at or around their peak - Tua, Rahman, Grant, Briggs etc etc

Fast forward 5-10 years and they're all still getting world title shots or in the mix. Frightening.

It's fair to say the division has never been in a worse state, I just hope Haye vs one of them happens at some point..

The Klitschkos aren't everybody's cup of tea but they are far better than they are sometimes given credit for. They do what they do very well. Okay Wlad has been clipped a couple of times but so was Lennox. Vitali has lost due to injury (twice).

For reference these were the heavyweight rankings 20 and 15 years ago respectively. The Klitschkos would've been there or thereabouts, in my view. I don't think any of the 1990 incarnations of the fighters listed would beat them. I think Lewis & Bowe in 1995 would probably have beaten both brothers. The rest would struggle.

1990
1. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
2. Mike Tyson (would lose on points or get stopped late)
3. Razor Ruddock (puncher's chance only - would probably get stopped)
4. James (Buster) Douglas (would be outboxed)
5. Tim Witherspoon (puncher's chance - would lose on points)
6. Carl Williams (would get sparked)
7. Francesco Damiani (would get stopped late)
8. Riddick Bowe (still on the way up, might not have known enough)
9. Ray Mercer (shut out on points)
10. George Foreman (beaten on points)

1995
1. Riddick Bowe (would win)
2. Lennox Lewis (would win)
3. Mike Tyson (would get stopped)
4. Michael Moorer (would get stopped)
5. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
6. Bruce Seldon (would get sparked)
7. Frank Bruno (would get stopped)
8. George Foreman (would retire on his stool)
9. Alexander Zolkin (would lose on points or get stopped late)
10. Henry Akinwande (would get stopped)

Captain Hook wrote:

JamesH wrote:

Jesus wrote: valuev is a joke, mormeck was shot and macerinelli has always been mediocre....

Hindsight is great isn't it? There wasn't too many people who said any of those things prior to the fights.

Agreed mate..

What a effing bullshit post.. Enzo was a champ as well, Haye was challenger to Mormeck and fought him overseas and 50% of people on here had Haye losing to Valuev pre-fight

Captain Hook wrote:They wouldn't have been in the top five 15-20 years ago...

josh fg wrote:Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua.

alexpaterson wrote:As king G says the fighter makes the belt couldn't agree more

oliverfennell wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:They wouldn't have been in the top five 15-20 years ago...

That's a bit harsh. They might not be the most exciting or charismatic, but you surely can't deny their talent, ring generalship and fitness. Obviously 15-20 years ago we had the likes of a young Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe, a near-peak Tyson and the still-capable Holmes and Foreman, but consider even in that era people like Moorer, Seldon, Bruno, McCall, Morrison and Hide won belts. Can you honestly not see the Klitschkos beating those guys?

Captain Hook wrote:Their CVs will look very good, agreed, but easily the best opponent on Vitali's CV is Lewis, and he lost that one.

oliverfennell wrote:

josh fg wrote:Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua.

No, I don't. Does anyone?

orbtastic wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:

josh fg wrote:Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua.

No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

oliverfennell wrote:

orbtastic wrote:

oliverfennell wrote: No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

oliverfennell wrote:

orbtastic wrote:

oliverfennell wrote: No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

MachoMan09 wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote: The Klitschkos aren't everybody's cup of tea but they are far better than they are sometimes given credit for. They do what they do very well. Okay Wlad has been clipped a couple of times but so was Lennox. Vitali has lost due to injury (twice).

For reference these were the heavyweight rankings 20 and 15 years ago respectively. The Klitschkos would've been there or thereabouts, in my view. I don't think any of the 1990 incarnations of the fighters listed would beat them. I think Lewis & Bowe in 1995 would probably have beaten both brothers. The rest would struggle.

1990
1. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
2. Mike Tyson (would lose on points or get stopped late)
3. Razor Ruddock (puncher's chance only - would probably get stopped)
4. James (Buster) Douglas (would be outboxed)
5. Tim Witherspoon (puncher's chance - would lose on points)
6. Carl Williams (would get sparked)
7. Francesco Damiani (would get stopped late)
8. Riddick Bowe (still on the way up, might not have known enough)
9. Ray Mercer (shut out on points)
10. George Foreman (beaten on points)

1995
1. Riddick Bowe (would win)
2. Lennox Lewis (would win)
3. Mike Tyson (would get stopped)
4. Michael Moorer (would get stopped)
5. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
6. Bruce Seldon (would get sparked)
7. Frank Bruno (would get stopped)
8. George Foreman (would retire on his stool)
9. Alexander Zolkin (would lose on points or get stopped late)
10. Henry Akinwande (would get stopped)

You don't believe any of the top 10 heavyweights 20 years ago would have beaten these two robotic fuckers?

I agree they're effective, but they've never fought anyone of the calibre of that list, bar Lewis, as I've mentioned previously

We'll probably never agree on this subject, mate. I actually quite rate the Klitschkos and always have done, really.

Take a few moments to look again at the top ten heavyweights from 1990 (20 years ago). I have also listed who they each fought in that year. I may concede that Holy' would perhaps be too busy for them at that stage of his career. I have never rated Tyson as highly as some. Bowe wasn't ready and the rest were either past it or never good enough.

It is worth noting that the standard of matches that year were shyte and certainly not much better (if at all) that the standard we have been served up this year.

1990 -
1) Holyfield fought Seamus McDonagh and Buster Douglas
2) Tyson fought Buster Douglas, Henry Tillman and Alex Stewart
3) Ruddock fought Michael Dokes, Kimmuel Odum and Mike Rouse
4) Douglas fought Mike Tyson & Evander Holyfield
5) Witherspoon fought Jeff Simms, Gregg Gorell and Jose Ribalta
6) Williams fought Melton Bowen
7) Damiani fought Tony Morrison and Everett Martin
8) Bowe fought Mike Robinson, Robert Colay, Eddie Gonzales, Jesus Contreras, Art Tucker, Pinklon Thomas, Bert Cooper and Tony Morrison
9) Mercer fought Wesley Watson, Kimmuel Odum, Lionel Washington and Bert Cooper
10) Foreman fought Gerry Cooney, Mike Jameson, Adilson Rodriguez, Ken Lakusta and Terry Anderson

crusader wrote:

J wrote:none of the belts mean eff all anymore.

by the way in case you didnt know those nice klts bros have insisted should del boy win he has to fight his elder brother...

http://www.sportinglife.com/boxing/news ... 12902.html


its this bullshit that is fookin up heavyweight boxing.

Actually, heavyweight boxing is fooked up because most of the top heavyweights are fat slobs and miles below the Klitschkos in terms of ability. Most of the fights that have fell through in the HW division are not because someone has to fight Vitali if they win, it is because there are financial details the camps can't agree on. These disagreements are common in every division, and Haye has had his part in them as well.

Even with these contracts that you think are fookin up HW boxing, the Klitschkos still manage to regularly fight top 15 opponents, and in the case of Wlad top five opponents. So you see, they aren't hurting HW boxing as much as you think. It wasn't even the contract that made Povetkin pull out, it was his trainers worries about his chance of winning.

orbtastic wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:

orbtastic wrote: Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

Number 1? By the IBF, maybe and we all know their rankings are a complete nonsense (stripping Lewis for not fighting Byrd etc). I would doubt he was ever more than top five on any sane person's list.