Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
He didn't look good against Young. He really didn't look good in any fights after Manila.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Yep, by that time he was operating on great chin, and learned reflexes....and it was still enough to get him by in some very tough scenarios. If Young had not been stickin' his head out of the ring and confusing the officials, my guess is he would have taken home the HW title that night.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
He climbed his second or third mountain after Manila. That was the moment to hang em up...BoxBuzz wrote:Yep, by that time he was operating on great chin, and learned reflexes....and it was still enough to get him by in some very tough scenarios. If Young had not been stickin' his head out of the ring and confusing the officials, my guess is he would have taken home the HW title that night.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
The obvious and right move was retirement after Manila.ThatOne wrote:He didn't look good against Young. He really didn't look good in any fights after Manila.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Money and attention was what kept him fighting. If he had more honest and smarter people around him he could have had the money and attention after Manila without fighting after he was incapable of fighting at the level one expected of him.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
People may feel he has an anti ali bias and that it is unfair in today's context are missing the point.grevan wrote:Only one person embarrassing himself around here...
The point is il duce was around at the time of Ali's career.he provides facts and articles of the time,he puts a hell of an effort into his posts which I an ardent ali fan nonetheless find fascinating.
Well done duce.always a pleasure to read your posts
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
The point is that he makes stuff up; that is what me and several other posters find annoying.mugabi wrote: The point is il duce was around at the time of Ali's career.he provides facts and articles of the time
However, you and several other posters appear to prefer nonsense over what was actually said and and done at the time.
Good luck with that, I'm done with this clown.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
it's all editorial.....mixed with some truth, and a little made up off the top of the noggin' for ol Duce..
It's all harmless, and at times entertaining....in a Foster Brooks sort of a way.
He's nothing if not prolific.
It's all harmless, and at times entertaining....in a Foster Brooks sort of a way.
He's nothing if not prolific.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Now this one is a genuine Red Smith quote
RED SMITH; Biggest Event of '81: Ali's Retirement
By Sports of The Times
Published: December 25, 1981
WHAT was the biggest single sports event in 1981? The baseball strike comes to mind immediately, along with a variety of repercussions, including the split season and immoral pennant races, especially if the end result is the departure of Bowie Kuhn as commissioner. The improvement of the football Giants and Jets - if it is improvement and not just the effect of Pete Rozelle's parity scheduling - has had New York in a tizzy for weeks. There was plenty to captivate racing people - John Henry's charge through the $3 million mark, the springtime of Pleasant Colony and John Campo, Before Dawn's irresistible way with fillies.
Overriding all others, though, was an event that would have commanded attention any other year in the last 20. It was the retirement of Muhammad Ali, when the last cowbell concluded a sleazy production in a decaying ball park in the Bahamas.
For boxing, it was the end of an era; for the press and public, it was the curtain scene of an act that had played for two decades. In February 1961, Ali's first year as a professional, when his name was still Cassius Clay, he stiffened a stranger named Donnie Fleeman in Miami Beach and struck a Tarzan of the Apes pose in the dressingroom doorway.
''He had to go!'' he intoned, clenched fists aloft, the glare of a white Shetland pony in his eyes. Then he saw a reporter who chatted with him in Rome in 1960 and looked on when he beat Poland's Zbigniew Pietrzkowski for the Olympic light-heavyweight championship.
''Hey,'' Cassius said, ''write about me. You ain't wrote about me since Rome.'' In 1961 Floyd Patterson was heavyweight champion and Sonny Liston his leading contender.
''Look,'' Cassius Clay said in a confidential tone, ''Sugar Robinson is gone. That Patterson, he don't say nothin'. Liston cain't say nothin'. I got to keep talking to keep up some interest in this sport.''
Talk he did, reciting rancid verse, deriding Floyd Patterson as ''The Rabbit,'' Liston as ''The Ugly Bear,'' Earnie Shavers as ''The Acorn.'' When there was disagreement over a decision like his disputed victory over Doug Jones, he flushed dissent away in a spate of rhetoric. In time he changed his name and some of the ornaments of his act; he gave up forecasting knockouts to the round and eased off on the rhymes, but the basic routine never changed.
He was repetitious, boring, often entertaining, tireless, and the best thing that happened to boxing since Tom Sayers and John C. Heenan. When Cassius was a youngster in Louisville, Ky., main-event fighters on Jim Norris's Friday night television shows received a TV fee of $1,000 each, in addition to the percentage of the live house negotiated with the promoter. When and if Gerry Cooney fights Larry Holmes March 15, champion and challenger will get $10 million each.
Muhammad Ali brought that change about. He made himself the most widely known individual in the world, an athlete respected universally; a folk hero, especially to the rebellious youth of the 1960's, when he ''didn't have nothin' against them Viet Cong;'' a gag man considered gifted by many; even a short-term diplomat in the State Department.
In those areas he was, as he would be the first to admit, ''the greatest.'' He bestowed that rank upon himself as a fighter, and there he never qualified.
He was good. He was brilliantly fast on his feet and with his hands. He could take a good punch to the body or the head. He was a fair puncher and his speed enabled him to get by with tactical boxing sins. He was probably the best of his time, though besides losing officially to Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, the celebrated helldriver Leon Spinks, and Trevor Berbick, he was whipped by Jimmy Young and perhaps Shavers.
Temperamentally, he was not without contradictions. He cared nothing about money, doing many small, impulsive charities that added up to a lot. Probably he is still generous when he encounters need that touches him.
He could display shocking streaks of cruelty, as the night he tortured Ernie Terrell unnecessarily through 15 rounds, and especially the night he made a painfully crippled Floyd Patterson stand and take punishment for 12 rounds. The oral abuse he sometimes heaped on camp followers like Bundini Brown and Muhammad's brother, Rahman, could turn witnesses off.
His recent retirement in Nassau was not Ali's first. He had called it quits and reversed his call several times, and might do it again, but this one seemed like the real thing. Asked whether he felt his skills might be going, he said: ''It's not may have gone, they have gone.'' He never conceded that before, not even after making an exhibition of himself with Holmes in the fall of 1980.
He was with us a long time, he earned his way, and his departure is a major happening. So an era ends, not with a bang, not with a whimper, but with the toneless toll of a cowbell. May he have a happy.
RED SMITH; Biggest Event of '81: Ali's Retirement
By Sports of The Times
Published: December 25, 1981
WHAT was the biggest single sports event in 1981? The baseball strike comes to mind immediately, along with a variety of repercussions, including the split season and immoral pennant races, especially if the end result is the departure of Bowie Kuhn as commissioner. The improvement of the football Giants and Jets - if it is improvement and not just the effect of Pete Rozelle's parity scheduling - has had New York in a tizzy for weeks. There was plenty to captivate racing people - John Henry's charge through the $3 million mark, the springtime of Pleasant Colony and John Campo, Before Dawn's irresistible way with fillies.
Overriding all others, though, was an event that would have commanded attention any other year in the last 20. It was the retirement of Muhammad Ali, when the last cowbell concluded a sleazy production in a decaying ball park in the Bahamas.
For boxing, it was the end of an era; for the press and public, it was the curtain scene of an act that had played for two decades. In February 1961, Ali's first year as a professional, when his name was still Cassius Clay, he stiffened a stranger named Donnie Fleeman in Miami Beach and struck a Tarzan of the Apes pose in the dressingroom doorway.
''He had to go!'' he intoned, clenched fists aloft, the glare of a white Shetland pony in his eyes. Then he saw a reporter who chatted with him in Rome in 1960 and looked on when he beat Poland's Zbigniew Pietrzkowski for the Olympic light-heavyweight championship.
''Hey,'' Cassius said, ''write about me. You ain't wrote about me since Rome.'' In 1961 Floyd Patterson was heavyweight champion and Sonny Liston his leading contender.
''Look,'' Cassius Clay said in a confidential tone, ''Sugar Robinson is gone. That Patterson, he don't say nothin'. Liston cain't say nothin'. I got to keep talking to keep up some interest in this sport.''
Talk he did, reciting rancid verse, deriding Floyd Patterson as ''The Rabbit,'' Liston as ''The Ugly Bear,'' Earnie Shavers as ''The Acorn.'' When there was disagreement over a decision like his disputed victory over Doug Jones, he flushed dissent away in a spate of rhetoric. In time he changed his name and some of the ornaments of his act; he gave up forecasting knockouts to the round and eased off on the rhymes, but the basic routine never changed.
He was repetitious, boring, often entertaining, tireless, and the best thing that happened to boxing since Tom Sayers and John C. Heenan. When Cassius was a youngster in Louisville, Ky., main-event fighters on Jim Norris's Friday night television shows received a TV fee of $1,000 each, in addition to the percentage of the live house negotiated with the promoter. When and if Gerry Cooney fights Larry Holmes March 15, champion and challenger will get $10 million each.
Muhammad Ali brought that change about. He made himself the most widely known individual in the world, an athlete respected universally; a folk hero, especially to the rebellious youth of the 1960's, when he ''didn't have nothin' against them Viet Cong;'' a gag man considered gifted by many; even a short-term diplomat in the State Department.
In those areas he was, as he would be the first to admit, ''the greatest.'' He bestowed that rank upon himself as a fighter, and there he never qualified.
He was good. He was brilliantly fast on his feet and with his hands. He could take a good punch to the body or the head. He was a fair puncher and his speed enabled him to get by with tactical boxing sins. He was probably the best of his time, though besides losing officially to Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, the celebrated helldriver Leon Spinks, and Trevor Berbick, he was whipped by Jimmy Young and perhaps Shavers.
Temperamentally, he was not without contradictions. He cared nothing about money, doing many small, impulsive charities that added up to a lot. Probably he is still generous when he encounters need that touches him.
He could display shocking streaks of cruelty, as the night he tortured Ernie Terrell unnecessarily through 15 rounds, and especially the night he made a painfully crippled Floyd Patterson stand and take punishment for 12 rounds. The oral abuse he sometimes heaped on camp followers like Bundini Brown and Muhammad's brother, Rahman, could turn witnesses off.
His recent retirement in Nassau was not Ali's first. He had called it quits and reversed his call several times, and might do it again, but this one seemed like the real thing. Asked whether he felt his skills might be going, he said: ''It's not may have gone, they have gone.'' He never conceded that before, not even after making an exhibition of himself with Holmes in the fall of 1980.
He was with us a long time, he earned his way, and his departure is a major happening. So an era ends, not with a bang, not with a whimper, but with the toneless toll of a cowbell. May he have a happy.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Hey Duce box....did you notice my
"Genuine, guaranteed 100% honest and true Red Smith Quote"? Complete with publish dates?
Now that's the way to quote someone.
I've always thought that one of the best ways to quote another is to actually include what the person said within the context of the quote.
Yes I suppose it's controversial in this day and age, of big mouth flighty opinionated poorly educated ignorant rump & gob swabbers, who make up all sorts of blabbery gobbledegook in order to give their personal opinion a bit of "lift". And yet to take willful action to have the very words that a person actually produce appear within a set of quotes, is a tip of the stetson to honesty, the real facts about something, the things that are true and ol' fashion' straightforwardness. Not to mention it shows that one is aspiring to high moral fiber, integrity and general do goodery.
How do you feel about such things now that we are in a brand spankin' new year? Ready to sign on?
Cuz that sort of stuff is so...2013.
Know what I mean?
"Genuine, guaranteed 100% honest and true Red Smith Quote"? Complete with publish dates?
Now that's the way to quote someone.
I've always thought that one of the best ways to quote another is to actually include what the person said within the context of the quote.
Yes I suppose it's controversial in this day and age, of big mouth flighty opinionated poorly educated ignorant rump & gob swabbers, who make up all sorts of blabbery gobbledegook in order to give their personal opinion a bit of "lift". And yet to take willful action to have the very words that a person actually produce appear within a set of quotes, is a tip of the stetson to honesty, the real facts about something, the things that are true and ol' fashion' straightforwardness. Not to mention it shows that one is aspiring to high moral fiber, integrity and general do goodery.
How do you feel about such things now that we are in a brand spankin' new year? Ready to sign on?
Cuz that sort of stuff is so...2013.
Know what I mean?
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Yes...but you often engage in the "make stuff up sort of trash"
and I call upon you in 2014 to turn away from the dark side, and get on board with
truth, facts, reality, and genuine heart felt "true blue-ery"
Be the reporter....not the distorter.
Take something that is real, and give it appeal.
Dare to state the nature of things as they actually exist, or existed as opposed to a personally idealistic or notional idea of them.
This is my suggestion, with little or no expectation of compensation.
I asked Eric Clapton what he thought about your behavior this year, and he asked me to have you listen to his advice for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KnrX3eEFSc
and I call upon you in 2014 to turn away from the dark side, and get on board with
truth, facts, reality, and genuine heart felt "true blue-ery"
Be the reporter....not the distorter.
Take something that is real, and give it appeal.
Dare to state the nature of things as they actually exist, or existed as opposed to a personally idealistic or notional idea of them.
This is my suggestion, with little or no expectation of compensation.
I asked Eric Clapton what he thought about your behavior this year, and he asked me to have you listen to his advice for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KnrX3eEFSc
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Maybe a judge deducted points for sticking his head out of the ring. Bad behavior sometimes is punished by the judge.
Ever been in front of a judge? They can be cantankerous.
Ever been in front of a judge? They can be cantankerous.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Well.....I bet you always vote the same way. Who's to say there's not two more just like you.
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Well, you need to write it first, before he can read it.Il Duce wrote:Payola in Landover
You should read that article........
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
Re: Herbert Muhammad "My Fighter Is Embarrassing Himself"
Yeah . . .to his imagination.pound per pound wrote:Duce gives us all a ring side seat.sweetsci wrote:I LOVE this day-by-day heavyweight history stuff that Il Duce posts. I'd miss him if he were gone. I take the Ali stuff and the "quotes" with a grain of salt. Il Duce obviously has a lot of knowledge. He's an asset to this forum, as are the knowledgable folks here who call him on questionable "facts". It's all part of the discussion. There's really no need to resort to name-calling or insults, as some do here. Don't like him? Don't read him.thunderfromdownunder wrote:Could someone just ban this clown already
