Doncaster Legend

[palooka]

[quote="HomicideHenry"]It took place as stated. And no Gorman didn't back down.

Shenton left cus these people who hired him had murder on their minds and not a fair fight.

Gorman almost lost his leg cus one of the rival families tried to cut it off.

Also an iron bar was jammed down Gormans throat.



If murder was on their minds then they'd not have waited until there were 100's of witnesses about; they'd not have been so stupid.

No doubt that Gorman got a real beating and it weren't fair but there's no way that someone tried to cut his leg off or rammed an iron bar down his throat (in his book doesn't it break his voice box?)

My mate knows Shenton and he sees him from time to time, I know he's not been well but I'll ask him to mention it to him next time he sees him.

[HomicideHenry]

@ Tosmanio.... take it up with Peter Fury

Why didn't Bartley boast about such a record in his own book then? I'm sure in 20 years time there will be a Fury or a Gorman saying Bartley had 1000 fights unbeaten, it's the nature of the beast.

If you re-read the book Gorman mentions he had dozens of other scraps that happened on.the fly or were so easy he didn't bother to count them. That's not even factoring all the amateur fights he had.

And he NEVER said the pros was beneath him. What he said was that the gypsies were giving him a bunch of shit for signing up into a novice pro tournament; cus they (not him) felt it was a step back because they (not him) felt he was best man in England with or without gloves.

And... Sam Gorman was Quarrys sparring partner in prep for Jack Boddell. Never was said Sam could beat Quarry; except that Sam gave Quarry good work--- and Sam was so honored by being in camp he named one of his sons Jerry.

And... as for Gaskin... that's easy to say isn't it, when Gorman is dead and can't defend himself.

[palooka]

And... as for Gaskin... that's easy to say isn't it, when Gorman is dead and can't defend himself.[/quote]

Gaskin didn't say anything bad about Gorman to me; he said that the whole incident was hyped up in the book; there are always 2 sides to a story; it doesn't pay to speak ill of the dead but we shouldn't make them into saints either; no doubt Gorman did good in his life and he'll have done bad as well.

[palooka]

It would have been interesting if Gorman and Shenton had got it on because, believe me, Danny Shenton could fight - a very powerful bloke and a formibable street fighter.

He had the bench press record in Armley Prison; it was something unreal. His dad was a window cleaner in the town centre and some of the older people remember his dad being really decent and Danny having good manners and a squeeky voice. He went into the protection rackets etc and went down the wrong path. A mate of mine knows him and speaks to him regular, think he lives in Kirk Sandall; he's knocking on now.

[lefty]

Has Doncaster produced many top Rugby league players?

[The Insider]

And... Sam Gorman was Quarrys sparring partner in prep for Jack Boddell. Never was said Sam could beat Quarry; except that Sam gave Quarry good work--- and Sam was so honored by being in camp he named one of his sons Jerry.
.

Is that where Jerry got his name then. Him, Sam and the bloke they promote the white collar with Elvis can rumble a fair bit too.

[palooka]

It would have been interesting if Gorman and Shenton had got it on because, believe me, Danny Shenton could fight - a very powerful bloke and a formibable street fighter.

Yes, just because someone lives in a house doesn't make them weaker than someone who lives on a site.

[Tomasino]

@ Tosmanio.... take it up with Peter Fury

Why didn't Bartley boast about such a record in his own book then? I'm sure in 20 years time there will be a Fury or a Gorman saying Bartley had 1000 fights unbeaten, it's the nature of the beast.

If you re-read the book Gorman mentions he had dozens of other scraps that happened on.the fly or were so easy he didn't bother to count them. That's not even factoring all the amateur fights he had.

And he NEVER said the pros was beneath him. What he said was that the gypsies were giving him a bunch of poo for signing up into a novice pro tournament; cus they (not him) felt it was a step back because they (not him) felt he was best man in England with or without gloves.

And... Sam Gorman was Quarrys sparring partner in prep for Jack Boddell. Never was said Sam could beat Quarry; except that Sam gave Quarry good work--- and Sam was so honored by being in camp he named one of his sons Jerry.

And... as for Gaskin... that's easy to say isn't it, when Gorman is dead and can't defend himself.

Fair enough. I just found it a bit far fetched especially the St Legers Day Massacre bit. I don't want to disrespect Bartly I did enjoy parts of his book and he did sound like a decent man especially as he got older and wiser.

[lefty]

Anyone? ..... nope lol

[coneye]

I know this bloke he's 5'7" , never been taught to fight , the first fight he ever had in his life he was 25 , he stood up to 6-7 drunks in a chippy after closing time , they set about him , he was black and blue nose broke , couple of teeth knocked out , you know the drill , they pasted him , he told me the leader is'nt gonna get away with it , he does it to someone every weekend, he said , its gonna stop ,, we all thought he was going to the police , No what he done , was he went to the guys house (sky scraper ) at 8 o clock in the morning mid week , knocked on the door , , bullys girl freind answered , he run in , give it him proper , dragged him to the balcony and threw him off 3 floors . He went to the hosp next day , and told this bully if he tells the police who done it he would kill him .

Fast forward 24 years , this guy has never had a fight or an argument ever since , he was in the pub , 4 drug facked , high has kites yobs one picks his pint up and drinks it , most around are saying them thugs are gonna give it Paul , i new better , and was'nt suprised when he ko'ed 2 of them out cold .

Move on , 2 weeks later they come in , i was'nt there but i believe it was a blood bath , , 5 of them came in and just charged him , the story goes they charged him , while he was swinging on with 4 , one stabbed him in the back , he was glassed with a pint pot from behind ,hit with bottles ,, and punching on with the glass sticking out of his head , It was going on for 10 minuites ,Now has we all know 10 minuites is a looong time in a fight, the landlord was'nt there he said the staff called the police and it took 10 minuites for them to get there , and apparantly , he never went down , and they ended up running away , and was scrapping till they run away has the cops pulled up ,

No one helped him , and you know what, he bore no one malice , he said to me , you can't expect people to help and risk there life when its nasty and viscous , with knifes and bottles , they all have famillys and they can't risk there own lifes he said.

End off , not on your life , , this guy spent weeks looking for them , was finally told they hang at a pool hall , he went there and spent 2 hours waiting outside, behind a skip in the dark , and got 3 of them from behind with a iron bar has they came out, others that know them, reckon he broke ones arm , fractured ones skull , and left the other looking like the elephant man .

End of , no way , the 4th he got in another boozer and nearly killed him , the last but not least was the one who stabbed him , i was actually in the pub that night when he walked in and sat on his own in the corner no one knew he was there , until this loud mouth who had been in all night gobbing off ,went to the toilet , and Paul followed him in , the screams were blood curling , when he came out covered in blood , the junkie was left in a pool of his own blood with his face in the urinal tough .

Sounds like a Paddy Constantine film , i know , but i'm telling you its all true , and the guy to talk to him would'nt hurt a fly , they are the only fights he's ever had , i've spoke to him about it , he says my first ever fight was at 25 , my next was at nearly 50 , lets hope theres not another cos at 75 i'll be too old he says .

Nutcase , hardman , i've not made my mind up yet , but one things for sure , you just don't know who your messing with , when you want to be a bully

[TheGoods]

Joe Boy lives in Hartlepool now. I hear he was tasty on the cobbles back in the day?

[palooka]

Joe Boy lives in Hartlepool now. I hear he was tasty on the cobbles back in the day?

Yes he was; he beat a mate of mine called Brett Cuffy from Balby though he was much bigger - a foot taller and a couple of stones on him; he's got some scalps but was a bully - some of the other Gaskins are really decent, friendly and good company; Joe Boy isn't really like that - he has an edge to him. He lost to a man called Ian Emmonds from Balby who beat him pretty easily - he was a bit bigger than Joe Boy and he used to go to Appleby Horse Fair to have a fight with money on it; I think he had a few wins but against the better men he came second. I'd not think he'd get bashed about by many normal people and he may have calmed down a bit; if he's in a pub and someone gets lippy though I imagine he'll get not back down.

[HomicideHenry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WycSQ_DP_nA

St. Leger's Day 1976.

Above is a link to the winning horse 'Crow' while the mob attack outside the race course took place.

[stevieb_8006]

what a load of macho bollocks.

I bet half these fights and 'stories' are like playground Chinese whispers.

[Tomasino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WycSQ_DP_nA

St. Leger's Day 1976.

Above is a link to the winning horse 'Crow' while the mob attack outside the race course took place.

We all know the race happened the way it usually does....

[HomicideHenry]

We all know the race happened the way it usually does....

Just thought it be interesting, sort of like take you back in time to that very day in history.

what a load of macho bollocks.

I bet half these fights and 'stories' are like playground Chinese whispers.

Currently I am looking through the British newspaper archives; which is quite an exhausting search indeed, considering I dont have a card to buy or to see into deeper archives--- but in the past I have found alot of Gorman stuff that he had in his book (i.e. how Roy Shaw claimed he never knew Gorman, yet I found a newspaper record of Shaw saying he'd fight Gorman, etc).

If there is anything to the story, I will find it. Or I suggest all the doubting Thomases to find the proof or lack of proof via newspaper archives.

[Tomasino]

We all know the race happened the way it usually does....

Just thought it be interesting, sort of like take you back in time to that very day in history.

what a load of macho bollocks.

I bet half these fights and 'stories' are like playground Chinese whispers.

Currently I am looking through the British newspaper archives; which is quite an exhausting search indeed, considering I dont have a card to buy or to see into deeper archives--- but in the past I have found alot of Gorman stuff that he had in his book (i.e. how Roy Shaw claimed he never knew Gorman, yet I found a newspaper record of Shaw saying he'd fight Gorman, etc).

If there is anything to the story, I will find it. Or I suggest all the doubting Thomases to find the proof or lack of proof via newspaper archives.

Shaw was a serious guy, but even by his own admission not the best BKB guy. I just wanted to know if that day was really known as the st ledger massacre. I'm satisfied that only Bartleys folk call it that.

People get bad beatings all the time, there's nothing really interesting or tragic about this case. Bartley showed up for a fight, started shouting and swearing at everybody, got done in badly and then dramatised it for his book.

[Mimmy]

what a load of macho bollocks.

I bet half these fights and 'stories' are like playground Chinese whispers.

Im affraid not matey, I wish it was when i got kicked in and pissed on as a kid. My dad got into some threats when a mate was burgeled and we had to move away from Edlo so thats telling you something for a family to do that.

[HomicideHenry]

Shaw was a serious guy, but even by his own admission not the best BKB guy. I just wanted to know if that day was really known as the st ledger massacre. I'm satisfied that only Bartleys folk call it that.

People get bad beatings all the time, there's nothing really interesting or tragic about this case. Bartley showed up for a fight, started shouting and swearing at everybody, got done in badly and then dramatised it for his book.

If it happened to you, or to anyone, am sure you'd call it a massacre too.

As for Gorman, nah, he didn't. Gaskin started the trouble when he beat the eff out of Bartley's brother John. That's when Bartley and Sam went down to Doncaster to meet Gaskin and Danny Shenton (who was to fight Sam), and of course Gaskin had group of men with him. Gorman dropped Gaskin, then all hell broke loose, and Shenton left because he wanted no part of the mayhem, for he came only to have a fair fight. And of course, after Sam and Bartley were beaten to a pulp, Gaskin tried to cut his leg off.

Ask Bob Gaskin sometime why he stopped actively fighting after that. I'll tell you why, cus the prick was an asshole and thought he could do whatever the fornicate he wanted and he got shot right through the guts. So, before you take someone's word on anything--- let's look at the source. Gaskin was a bad man, just like Paul Sykes was a bad man. Mean to the core, and he eventually got his.

And again... rather than hem haw about this, why not help and look for newspaper archives from that particular week and see what the press said. I happen to believe Gorman's end of it was far more truthful than anything else.


Btw... anyone ever been to the Grapes in Appleby? There's wood carved monument of Gorman's famed fight with Rooney there. Anyone has any pictures of it, would be much appreciated to get a look see.

[stevieb_8006]

what a load of macho bollocks.

I bet half these fights and 'stories' are like playground Chinese whispers.

Im affraid not matey, I wish it was when i got kicked in and pissed on as a kid. My dad got into some threats when a mate was burgeled and we had to move away from Edlo so thats telling you something for a family to do that.

Oh I don't doubt that mate, that's grim and I really feel for you. Animals. I was more referring to the bareknuckle hardmen aspect to the thread. Punching down walls and benchpressing houses etc. People lap it up. Every year that passes, the better these guys were, if u know what I mean.

[Tomasino]

Shaw was a serious guy, but even by his own admission not the best BKB guy. I just wanted to know if that day was really known as the st ledger massacre. I'm satisfied that only Bartleys folk call it that.

People get bad beatings all the time, there's nothing really interesting or tragic about this case. Bartley showed up for a fight, started shouting and swearing at everybody, got done in badly and then dramatised it for his book.

If it happened to you, or to anyone, am sure you'd call it a massacre too.

As for Gorman, nah, he didn't. Gaskin started the trouble when he beat the eff out of Bartley's brother John. That's when Bartley and Sam went down to Doncaster to meet Gaskin and Danny Shenton (who was to fight Sam), and of course Gaskin had group of men with him. Gorman dropped Gaskin, then all hell broke loose, and Shenton left because he wanted no part of the mayhem, for he came only to have a fair fight. And of course, after Sam and Bartley were beaten to a pulp, Gaskin tried to cut his leg off.

Ask Bob Gaskin sometime why he stopped actively fighting after that. I'll tell you why, cus the prick was an asshole and thought he could do whatever the eff he wanted and he got shot right through the guts. So, before you take someone's word on anything--- let's look at the source. Gaskin was a bad man, just like Paul Sykes was a bad man. Mean to the core, and he eventually got his.

And again... rather than hem haw about this, why not help and look for newspaper archives from that particular week and see what the press said. I happen to believe Gorman's end of it was far more truthful than anything else.


Btw... anyone ever been to the Grapes in Appleby? There's wood carved monument of Gorman's famed fight with Rooney there. Anyone has any pictures of it, would be much appreciated to get a look see.

Rufus, your over in America, right? What do you know about any of this that isn't third or fourth hand information? Just because you changed your name to Gypsy Henry Robbins, doesn't make you an authority on Doncaster in the late 70's.

[DavidPayne]

I mentioned to my Dad this thread, specifically Danny Shenton who I'd said my Dad sort of knew. Well, he knew him a bit more than that. Danny was two years older than my Dad and grew up across the street in Cantley. Once locked my Dad in the coal-shed!

And he tells another tale of him walking from town having been beat up by three, when my Grandma and Grandad picked him up in their car, he refused to get in at first, but succumbed and they cleaned him up before he went home.

He said he'd see the three "one at a time".

Another fella lived around the other corner, used to knockabout with Danny, want to say Tommy something or other, forget.

He didn't remember the St Leger story specifically.

[jonny]

I mentioned to my Dad this thread, specifically Danny Shenton who I'd said my Dad sort of knew. Well, he knew him a bit more than that. Danny was two years older than my Dad and grew up across the street in Cantley. Once locked my Dad in the coal-shed!

And he tells another tale of him walking from town having been beat up by three, when my Grandma and Grandad picked him up in their car, he refused to get in at first, but succumbed and they cleaned him up before he went home.

He said he'd see the three "one at a time".

Another fella lived around the other corner, used to knockabout with Danny, want to say Tommy something or other, forget.

He didn't remember the St Leger story specifically.

Was that Tommy Gardner

[DavidPayne]

Could have been, yes.

[The Insider]

My uncle's next door neighbour (who was actually the Hovis bread boy in the commercials) was due to fight Gorman and Gaskin at the same time on the edge of a cliff just outside a traveller site but they turned up mob handed daint they so what he did was sawed his own leg off and beat half the mob to death with the soggy end and the rest just done one as they just bricked it. True story as I heard it off a bloke in a pub somewhere.