BoxRec

McGuigan v Pedroza.....some folk on some of the dafter forums I've been on have tended to chip away at Pedroza. Semi shot, just came over to London to cash-out, totally killed by making the weight etc.

Always thought this is a bad case of revisionism...Pedroza was not 'super-prime' but still had plenty in the tank and wanted to win that fight and gave McGuigan plenty to think about and coming to London was not a 'cash out' because Pedroza was happy to fight overseas.

McGuigan's excellent book is very clear that in terms of skills, awkwardness and size/strength Pedroza was a nightmare and the severe regime he went through to get ready for Pedroza proved to be a worth it.

Calzaghe v Hopkins springs to mind as well....notably because Hopkins would win big again and was clearly far from finished at elite level. Bernard typically 'muddied' the waters post-fight with his gift for working the media and kind of got plenty of people believing that Joe had pulled a bit of a cheeky, fast one. I did not buy that at the time and actually thought that Joe got things got it spot-on with his tactics...this was really a case of Calzaghe getting the job done and not being trapped by an old fox.

Bodyshot3 wrote:McGuigan v Pedroza.....some folk on some of the dafter forums I've been on have tended to chip away at Pedroza. Semi shot, just came over to London to cash-out, totally killed by making the weight etc.

Always thought this is a bad case of revisionism...Pedroza was not 'super-prime' but still had plenty in the tank and wanted to win that fight and gave McGuigan plenty to think about and coming to London was not a 'cash out' because Pedroza was happy to fight overseas.

McGuigan's excellent book is very clear that in terms of skills, awkwardness and size/strength Pedroza was a nightmare and the severe regime he went through to get ready for Pedroza proved to be a worth it.

Calzaghe v Hopkins springs to mind as well....notably because Hopkins would win big again and was clearly far from finished at elite level. Bernard typically 'muddied' the waters post-fight with his gift for working the media and kind of got plenty of people believing that Joe had pulled a bit of a cheeky, fast one. I did not buy that at the time and actually thought that Joe got things got it spot-on with his tactics...this was really a case of Calzaghe getting the job done and not being trapped by an old fox.

I don't take nothing away from both fighters. Barry McGuigan and Joe Calzaghe had the biggest wins of their careers against all time great boxers. It's true, Eusebio Pedroza and Bernard Hopkins weren't prime-prime at that stage of their careers, but, still, they were formidable.

Bodyshot3 wrote:McGuigan v Pedroza.....some folk on some of the dafter forums I've been on have tended to chip away at Pedroza. Semi shot, just came over to London to cash-out, totally killed by making the weight etc.

Always thought this is a bad case of revisionism...Pedroza was not 'super-prime' but still had plenty in the tank and wanted to win that fight and gave McGuigan plenty to think about and coming to London was not a 'cash out' because Pedroza was happy to fight overseas.

McGuigan's excellent book is very clear that in terms of skills, awkwardness and size/strength Pedroza was a nightmare and the severe regime he went through to get ready for Pedroza proved to be a worth it.

Calzaghe v Hopkins springs to mind as well....notably because Hopkins would win big again and was clearly far from finished at elite level. Bernard typically 'muddied' the waters post-fight with his gift for working the media and kind of got plenty of people believing that Joe had pulled a bit of a cheeky, fast one. I did not buy that at the time and actually thought that Joe got things got it spot-on with his tactics...this was really a case of Calzaghe getting the job done and not being trapped by an old fox.

McGuigan won the greatest sporting moment in 1990 for the previous decades sporting achievements 1980-1990 at SPOTY (when it meant something)
I think he had massive credit for that win even years after the fight, they were still giving him acknowledgement of this win.

It was a tremendous win. Pedroza was like stone and mcguigan did brilliantly. I do think his best win was probably the Laporte fight tho. Incredible atmosphere.

Rexob wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:McGuigan v Pedroza.....some folk on some of the dafter forums I've been on have tended to chip away at Pedroza. Semi shot, just came over to London to cash-out, totally killed by making the weight etc.

Always thought this is a bad case of revisionism...Pedroza was not 'super-prime' but still had plenty in the tank and wanted to win that fight and gave McGuigan plenty to think about and coming to London was not a 'cash out' because Pedroza was happy to fight overseas.

McGuigan's excellent book is very clear that in terms of skills, awkwardness and size/strength Pedroza was a nightmare and the severe regime he went through to get ready for Pedroza proved to be a worth it.

Calzaghe v Hopkins springs to mind as well....notably because Hopkins would win big again and was clearly far from finished at elite level. Bernard typically 'muddied' the waters post-fight with his gift for working the media and kind of got plenty of people believing that Joe had pulled a bit of a cheeky, fast one. I did not buy that at the time and actually thought that Joe got things got it spot-on with his tactics...this was really a case of Calzaghe getting the job done and not being trapped by an old fox.

McGuigan won the greatest sporting moment in 1990 for the previous decades sporting achievements 1980-1990 at SPOTY (when it meant something)
I think he had massive credit for that win even years after the fight, they were still giving him acknowledgement of this win.

As a self-confessed huge Roy Jones fan, I don't think he gets enough credit for beating James Toney. People point to Toney starting training camp too heavy when in reality he probably always did that. Still didn't stop him from being The Ring Magazine #2 p4p fighter in the world at the time and the betting favourite.

Walter Santemore got zero credit for staying in the pocket and outworking a still dangerous Earnie Shavers in 1982 to win a decision.

cfang wrote: Also in the second fight, the referee and Ali's actions are irrelevant - do you think Liston was unlucky to lose that fight

To you, any of Ali's illegal actions are irrelevant... Liston was VERY unlucky... The fight was rigged... Walcott should have DQ'd Ali for refusing to go to a neutral corner for the ENTIRE COUNT... When have you EVER seen a boxer so flagrantly disobey a referee's orders to obey the rules.

Floyd Mayweather definitely doesn't get enough credit for his wins over Juan Manuel Marquez and Ricky Hatton...probably others as well.

Andre Ward doesn't get enough credit for his fantastic resume of very good or great fighters.

I'm no fan of either fighter, but I can put that aside and acknowledge their accomplishments. A lot of fans can't put their emotions aside to give a fighter credit for what they achieve.

Chad Dawson's solid run of wins over Big name fighters seems all but forgotten by people, but I mean come on. He beat Adamek, Hopkins, Glen Johnson 2x (one was controversial), Antonio Tarver 2x...it's a pretty good run of solid wins.

Lol Liston was unlucky. So I suppose if Walcott would have acted perfectly and not in an incompetent way, sonny would have somehow won? No way at all.

Kalan wrote:

cfang wrote: Also in the second fight, the referee and Ali's actions are irrelevant - do you think Liston was unlucky to lose that fight

To you, any of Ali's illegal actions are irrelevant... Liston was VERY unlucky... The fight was rigged... Walcott should have DQ'd Ali for refusing to go to a neutral corner for the ENTIRE COUNT... When have you EVER seen a boxer so flagrantly disobey a referee's orders to obey the rules.

I'm the same. Can't stand either fighter but I think floyd may be top 10 p4p and ward top 25.

gilgamesh wrote:Floyd Mayweather definitely doesn't get enough credit for his wins over Juan Manuel Marquez and Ricky Hatton...probably others as well.

Andre Ward doesn't get enough credit for his fantastic resume of very good or great fighters.

I'm no fan of either fighter, but I can put that aside and acknowledge their accomplishments. A lot of fans can't put their emotions aside to give a fighter credit for what they achieve.

I don't take nothing away from both fighters. Barry McGuigan and Joe Calzaghe had the biggest wins of their careers against all time great boxers. It's true, Eusebio Pedroza and Bernard Hopkins weren't prime-prime at that stage of their careers, but, still, they were formidable.

Thankfully, a good deal of good sense and overall objectivity exists on Boxrec despite the odd, ill-informed nutter

Bodyshot3 wrote:

I don't take nothing away from both fighters. Barry McGuigan and Joe Calzaghe had the biggest wins of their careers against all time great boxers. It's true, Eusebio Pedroza and Bernard Hopkins weren't prime-prime at that stage of their careers, but, still, they were formidable.

Thankfully, a good deal of good sense and overall objectivity exists on Boxrec despite the odd, ill-informed nutter

Why are you saying that?

I believe he is referring to Kalan.

Why are you saying that?

Apologies, and certainly not a dig at you whatsoever.
But having been here a while it is fair to say that we have had some folk on here who have been rather odd; thankfully always the minority.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Leonard/Duran 1- fought the wrong fight

(man, just shut the f^ck up.
let it go, man!)

cfang wrote:Marciano vs Louis is another. Louis was somewhat shot but was still on a good run and had a lot to offer. His punch still looked in order and his jab too. Rocky did a great job Koing him imo.

disagree. louis was the early peaker
type and was shot at 37, when he met
peaking marciano.

man wrote:

cfang wrote:Marciano vs Louis is another. Louis was somewhat shot but was still on a good run and had a lot to offer. His punch still looked in order and his jab too. Rocky did a great job Koing him imo.

disagree. louis was the early peaker
type and was shot at 37, when he met
peaking marciano.

Yes, by the time Louis fought Marciano he only had the jab left. Couldn't get his punches off anymore, a textbook case of a shot fighter imo.

ElJefe wrote:As a self-confessed huge Roy Jones fan, I don't think he gets enough credit for beating James Toney. People point to Toney starting training camp too heavy when in reality he probably always did that. Still didn't stop him from being The Ring Magazine #2 p4p fighter in the world at the time and the betting favourite.

This is a good point.

Many people say that Toney was weight drained, as if that was Jones Jr's fault.

The fact is, this wasn't Toney's coming down from a higher weight to fight Jones, it was an established champion at the weight defending a title against a guy who was moving up.

In addition, he lost his next fight after that to Montell Griffin at 175: was he weight drained for that too?

James Toney would never have beaten Roy Jones Jr in his pomp; that is largely obvious.