BoxRec

Horse wrote:

nitro5912 wrote:Its only a big fight to clowns, I don't know anyone who thinks bellew has a remote chance of winning including casuals who though brook would win v GGG.

Bellew has a chance against Haye.

Since when is Haye so bloody amazing? Bellew would be one of his biggest wins.

If 'so bloody amazing' means since when was he almost certainly at least a level above Bellew then since 2005 when he beat Gurov.
Bellew wouldn't qualify as being bigger than Enzo, Mormeck, Ruiz, Barrett, Bonin, Chisora or Valuev.

leejonesjnr wrote:If 'so bloody amazing' means since when was he almost certainly at least a level above Bellew then since 2005 when he beat Gurov.
Bellew wouldn't qualify as being bigger than Enzo, Mormeck, Ruiz, Barrett, Bonin, Chisora or Valuev.

Bonin? Bloody hell!

Yeah, great win that one! Christ almighty!

Of course it's not a real grudge fight. It's like Haye v Harrison - an uncompetitive fight that can be turned into a money spinner.

Bellew made it clear in his page in last week's Boxing News.

For those proclaiming an outrage, or death of boxing, they must be harking back to a golden age that never existed.

I don't begrudge either of them. There is the one rogue factor as to whether Haye has declined materially.

Horse wrote:Tony Bellew vs Audley Harrison: Who wins?

For me Bellew is far less of a joke of an opponent than Harrison was. At least Bellew is a world class cruiserweight.

So I don't see why Haye wouldn't take this fight unless he thinks that Bellew will actually beat him.

Harrison is a curious case.

He had ability, but he had no confidence & was easily cowed.

If he overcame his fears, he'd wipe Bellow out easily, but if he fought like he did during Williams 1 or versus Haye, Bellow would probably blow him away.

Its a non event. Haye would smash him. No way bellew takes his power. He can hardly take the power of guys in his own division. Say what you want about haye...he always has had power.

I think hearns sacrificing bellew to keep joshua away from haye. Both haye and joshua still looking for opponents. Hearns saying he ll let joshua fight klitchko why not haye then. The man who actually lost to klitchko. Been retired for three years and not proven since his comeback.

Instead hes heading towards dishing up price for joshua a non event. If your gonna charge 20 quid at least serve up something that people want to see.

If hearns was against matching josh with klitchko fair enough but i dont get how its fine to fight klitchko and not haye unless the klitchko v josh fights been a ruse from the start.

Harrison would have battered bellow easily. These heavyweights hit very very hard. A reason not many cruisers are challenging heavyweights with much success. Even haye when he went up one of the heaviest hitters with decent defensive skills had to change up his game. Even against harrison.

Harrison has a 12 inch reach advantage over bellew for a start. Hes 6 foot 5 and a half. And could be as much as 40 pounds heavier than him. Even harrison v bellews a non event let alone haye/bellew

Honestly see this as an easy nights work for Haye!

Horse wrote:

nitro5912 wrote:Its only a big fight to clowns, I don't know anyone who thinks bellew has a remote chance of winning including casuals who though brook would win v GGG.

Bellew has a chance against Haye.

Since when is Haye so bloody amazing? Bellew would be one of his biggest wins.

nitro5912 wrote:No he shouldn't fight haye first, he should set out to prove himself the best at his weight before cashing in. But he won't because like all sports its £££ before glory.

Do you chase glory before money?

Beating David Haye would be pretty glorious.

Who has Bellew beaten to suggest he would win? I think you're being a little optimistic about Bellew's chances.

I'll have a sportsman's bet with you, that if the fight happenes, Bellew is finished by the first meaningful salvo Haye lands, inside of 3 rounds.

If it's a catchweight it's pointless.

gilgamesh wrote:If it's a catchweight it's pointless.

No it isn't; the point of catchweights is that they both agree to it.

It's not like Bellew is asking Haye to come in UNDER the 201 limit for heavyweight.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:If it's a catchweight it's pointless.

No it isn't; the point of catchweights is that they both agree to it.

It's not like Bellew is asking Haye to come in UNDER the 201 limit for heavyweight.

If it's a catchweight I'd rather not see it, and it lowers my opinion of Bellew. My opinion of Haye already can't go any lower.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Who has Bellew beaten to suggest he would win? I think you're being a little optimistic about Bellew's chances.

I'll have a sportsman's bet with you, that if the fight happenes, Bellew is finished by the first meaningful salvo Haye lands, inside of 3 rounds.

David Haye (black) & Tony Bellew's (red) best results:

Jean Marc Mormeck
Enzo Maccarinelli
Nikolay Valuev
Ilunga Makabu
Dereck Chisora
Giacobbe Fragomeni
Isaac Chilemba II
Mateusz Masternak
Nathan Cleverly I - (Lost)
Isaac Chilemba I - (Draw)

Nathan Cleverly II
Ovill McKenzie II
John Ruiz
Audley Harrison
Monte Barrett
Alexander Gurov
Ovill McKenzie I
Wladimir Klitschko - (Lost)
Edison Miranda
Bob Ajisafe


Haye's record is superior, but not enough to dismiss Bellew as a no-hoper, especially as all of Haye's best results are at least 4 years old and most of Bellew's are less than 4 years old.

Bellew would possibly be a top 5 win for Haye. Bellew might be no good at heavyweight, but on paper he's got a reasonable chance.

bbjc wrote:Harrison would have battered bellow easily. These heavyweights hit very very hard. A reason not many cruisers are challenging heavyweights with much success. Even haye when he went up one of the heaviest hitters with decent defensive skills had to change up his game. Even against harrison.

Harrison has a 12 inch reach advantage over bellew for a start. Hes 6 foot 5 and a half. And could be as much as 40 pounds heavier than him. Even harrison v bellews a non event let alone haye/bellew

A lot of cruiserweights have had reasonable success at heavyweight in recent years: Adamek, Cunningham, Haye, Huck, Tarver, Briedis etc.

Bellew might not be able to do it, but the idea of Bellew being able to be a top 30 ranked fringe contender at heavyweight isn't absurd.

Horse wrote:

bbjc wrote:Harrison would have battered bellow easily. These heavyweights hit very very hard. A reason not many cruisers are challenging heavyweights with much success. Even haye when he went up one of the heaviest hitters with decent defensive skills had to change up his game. Even against harrison.

Harrison has a 12 inch reach advantage over bellew for a start. Hes 6 foot 5 and a half. And could be as much as 40 pounds heavier than him. Even harrison v bellews a non event let alone haye/bellew

A lot of cruiserweights have had reasonable success at heavyweight in recent years: Adamek, Cunningham, Haye, Huck, Tarver, Briedis etc.

Bellew might not be able to do it, but the idea of Bellew being able to be a top 30 ranked fringe contender at heavyweight isn't absurd.

Especially when all you'd have to do to reach that status would be to get a win over a Chris Arreola or Eric Molina or someone of that ilk...Very achievable.

People are underestimating the weight difference. Bellews turned out a pretty decent fighter...but hes no more than that. A lot of the guys hes beat have either been guys no ones really heard of been untested to an extent or been smashed by someone else beforehand or been over the hill.

If hes that good why not get him in with the best guys in his own division. Bellew is better than he looks but he wont stand up to many heavyweights power. Hes been down hurt etc plenty where hes at. The one elite tested guy he fought made short work of him. To the extent tony who prides himself on being a warrior looked absolutely petrified from the first bell. Haye would bounce him up and down. Dont expect tony to come out looking like he did against flores or masturk etc. Bellew the warrior. Bellews plans will be backfoot counterpunching all night. The problem with that is hayes very good at opening opponents up. And tonys not great at protecting his chin anyway. Stupid fight. Although on paper these fights may look decent....its gonna end up with someone getting hurt eventually. Khan v canelo. Brook v golovkin. Bellew v haye. There needing to make rules against guys jumping weight to fight top contenders. Before we get another tragedy on our hands.

Horse wrote:

bbjc wrote:Harrison would have battered bellow easily. These heavyweights hit very very hard. A reason not many cruisers are challenging heavyweights with much success. Even haye when he went up one of the heaviest hitters with decent defensive skills had to change up his game. Even against harrison.

Harrison has a 12 inch reach advantage over bellew for a start. Hes 6 foot 5 and a half. And could be as much as 40 pounds heavier than him. Even harrison v bellews a non event let alone haye/bellew

A lot of cruiserweights have had reasonable success at heavyweight in recent years: Adamek, Cunningham, Haye, Huck, Tarver, Briedis etc.

Bellew might not be able to do it, but the idea of Bellew being able to be a top 30 ranked fringe contender at heavyweight isn't absurd.

Fair play horse some of them have had relative success to an extent. I d still say most of them were better than bellew tho and we re more suited to jumping up the weight. Plus none of them had success against someone who hits as hard as haye. Its not like bellew can put much weight on...he already looks about his limit. Anymore will just hinder him at this point.

Its not absurd him beating the right opponent at heavyweight...but someone like even audley harrison is all wrong for him. Audleys 6 feet 5 and a half. 14 inch reach advantage. Could be up to 40 or 50 pounds in weight in audleys favour. I cant see him doing anything with audley apart from getting knocked out.

bbjc wrote:People are underestimating the weight difference. Bellews turned out a pretty decent fighter...but hes no more than that. A lot of the guys hes beat have either been guys no ones really heard of been untested to an extent or been smashed by someone else beforehand or been over the hill.

If hes that good why not get him in with the best guys in his own division. Bellew is better than he looks but he wont stand up to many heavyweights power. Hes been down hurt etc plenty where hes at. The one elite tested guy he fought made short work of him. To the extent tony who prides himself on being a warrior looked absolutely petrified from the first bell. Haye would bounce him up and down. Dont expect tony to come out looking like he did against flores or masturk etc. Bellew the warrior. Bellews plans will be backfoot counterpunching all night. The problem with that is hayes very good at opening opponents up. And tonys not great at protecting his chin anyway. Stupid fight. Although on paper these fights may look decent....its gonna end up with someone getting hurt eventually. Khan v canelo. Brook v golovkin. Bellew v haye. There needing to make rules against guys jumping weight to fight top contenders. Before we get another tragedy on our hands.

Amen!

It's a joke fight really & like you have said, another one of those mismatches masquerading as a big fight that has been the order of the day in 2016.

Haye shouldn't even be entertaining the idea of fighting Bellew, especially in light of the crap he has been feasting on recently.

OK, Bellew is better than Arnold Whatshisname & Mark De Mori, but it's still no comfort for Haye: he needs to by frying bigger fish if he is serious about his comeback.

bbjc wrote:People are underestimating the weight difference. Bellews turned out a pretty decent fighter...but hes no more than that. A lot of the guys hes beat have either been guys no ones really heard of been untested to an extent or been smashed by someone else beforehand or been over the hill.

If hes that good why not get him in with the best guys in his own division. Bellew is better than he looks but he wont stand up to many heavyweights power. Hes been down hurt etc plenty where hes at. The one elite tested guy he fought made short work of him. To the extent tony who prides himself on being a warrior looked absolutely petrified from the first bell. Haye would bounce him up and down. Dont expect tony to come out looking like he did against flores or masturk etc. Bellew the warrior. Bellews plans will be backfoot counterpunching all night. The problem with that is hayes very good at opening opponents up. And tonys not great at protecting his chin anyway. Stupid fight. Although on paper these fights may look decent....its gonna end up with someone getting hurt eventually. Khan v canelo. Brook v golovkin. Bellew v haye. There needing to make rules against guys jumping weight to fight top contenders. Before we get another tragedy on our hands.

agree, its all the rage at the minute and joe public (and some fans) keep falling for it, its like everybody has forgotten the reason behind different weight divisions, but hey those PPV slots aint gonna fill themselves are they ?

Syntax Error wrote:Amen!

It's a joke fight really & like you have said, another one of those mismatches masquerading as a big fight that has been the order of the day in 2016.

Haye shouldn't even be entertaining the idea of fighting Bellew, especially in light of the crap he has been feasting on recently.

OK, Bellew is better than Arnold Whatshisname & Mark De Mori, but it's still no comfort for Haye: he needs to by frying bigger fish if he is serious about his comeback.

If Bellew is as rubbish as most people are saying then he'd be a fool to pass this easy money up.

Batter Bellew, fight Brown for the WBA title, defend against Briggs and then fight Joshua. If he wins that lot then he can fight Fury for the lineal title.

Horse wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:Amen!

It's a joke fight really & like you have said, another one of those mismatches masquerading as a big fight that has been the order of the day in 2016.

Haye shouldn't even be entertaining the idea of fighting Bellew, especially in light of the crap he has been feasting on recently.

OK, Bellew is better than Arnold Whatshisname & Mark De Mori, but it's still no comfort for Haye: he needs to by frying bigger fish if he is serious about his comeback.

If Bellew is as rubbish as most people are saying then he'd be a fool to pass this easy money up.

Batter Bellew, fight Brown for the WBA title, defend against Briggs and then fight Joshua. If he wins that lot then he can fight Fury for the lineal title.

Do you think Bellew would beat Joshua?

Killer Blow wrote:Do you think Bellew would beat Joshua?

Probably too small.

Honestly a lot might disagree with this...but that last guy haye fought the cobra would give bellew a fight. The one he labelled a pub doorman. Your talking about a guy who stands 6 foot 5 got about 40 pounds on bellew got a good bit longer reach and wasnt actually as bad as haye made him look.

Bellew wouldnt be blowing him away in a couple of rounds anyway.

Horse wrote:

leejonesjnr wrote:If 'so bloody amazing' means since when was he almost certainly at least a level above Bellew then since 2005 when he beat Gurov.
Bellew wouldn't qualify as being bigger than Enzo, Mormeck, Ruiz, Barrett, Bonin, Chisora or Valuev.

Bonin? Bloody hell!

Yeah, great win that one! Christ almighty!

It'd be very comparable to the Enzo Macca fight, in which Haye had already decided on being a small, svelte heavyweight and would be coming down a weight class, with the two Enzos and FW hoping, indeed were likely almost certain, Haye would be weight drained.

Now Haye, older and thicker physically, has been entering the ring in the 230s and probably has to come down a similar amount of weight to reach 210. While Bellew, who has bragged about being an amateur heavyweight (probably during a time when Haye was a cruiserweight pro) will be hoping Haye drains himself coming down in weight.

Thinking Haye uses a similar strategy as well, using his size and power early.

Horse wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Who has Bellew beaten to suggest he would win? I think you're being a little optimistic about Bellew's chances.

I'll have a sportsman's bet with you, that if the fight happenes, Bellew is finished by the first meaningful salvo Haye lands, inside of 3 rounds.

David Haye (black) & Tony Bellew's (red) best results:

Jean Marc Mormeck
Enzo Maccarinelli
Nikolay Valuev
Ilunga Makabu
Dereck Chisora
Giacobbe Fragomeni
Isaac Chilemba II
Mateusz Masternak
Nathan Cleverly I - (Lost)
Isaac Chilemba I - (Draw)

Nathan Cleverly II
Ovill McKenzie II
John Ruiz
Audley Harrison
Monte Barrett
Alexander Gurov
Ovill McKenzie I
Wladimir Klitschko - (Lost)
Edison Miranda
Bob Ajisafe


Haye's record is superior, but not enough to dismiss Bellew as a no-hoper, especially as all of Haye's best results are at least 4 years old and most of Bellew's are less than 4 years old.

Bellew would possibly be a top 5 win for Haye. Bellew might be no good at heavyweight, but on paper he's got a reasonable chance.

How can losing to Nathan Cleverly be a considerably better result than losing to Wlad?
Losing to Wlad eclipses anything Bellew has done

John Ruiz wat too low. In fact, you've favoured Bellew here big time.

lillywhite14 wrote:How can losing to Nathan Cleverly be a considerably better result than losing to Wlad?
Losing to Wlad eclipses anything Bellew has done

John Ruiz wat too low. In fact, you've favoured Bellew here big time.

Bellew arguably beat Cleverly in their first fight. Wladimir arguably won every round against Haye.

John Ruiz hadn't won a world title fight in over 5 years & 4 months before the Haye fight.